Gordie Howe circa 1980

[arrbez]

For those around at the time, how was Gordie's last season in the NHL at age 52? He could obviously still play some, scoring 41 points and all.

I'm curious if being a 50+ year old Legend allowed him a little more icetime and room to operate out there than your average player would get, or if he still earned it all? Basically, do you think he was getting more icetime than he normally would to sell tickets, or was he still legit? And when he hit someone in a scrum, did they hit him back? What parts of his game held up, and what parts were gone?

Feel free to add any other memories too.

Click to read more...

 

[Big Phil]

Don't remember a whole lot. He played in the all-star game that year. But for two reasons, one it was in Detroit. And two, he was Gordie Howe.

I know that Howe once said in an interview how he complained about his ice time being limited as the season wore on.

 

[reckoning]

There's was a cover article on him that season in Sports Illustrated that touches on some of those questions:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1120296/index.htm

Basically says that his speed had greatly diminished, and he was having trouble defensively, but the strength, hockey sense and flashes of meanness were still there. He had more room to operate based on respect, but that was earned. His 41 points (7th highest on the team) wasn't a publicity stunt, it actually happened.

 

[overpass]

There's was a cover article on him that season in Sports Illustrated that touches on some of those questions:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1120296/index.htm

Basically says that his speed had greatly diminished, and he was having trouble defensively, but the strength, hockey sense and flashes of meanness were still there. He had more room to operate based on respect, but that was earned. His 41 points (7th highest on the team) wasn't a publicity stunt, it actually happened.

I thought of that article too when I saw the thread topic.

In terms of what parts of his game were gone:

Compounding Howe's goal-scoring problems, he has had difficulty adjusting to Blackburn's unique defensive strategies. A right wing, Howe has spent his entire career covering his opposite wing in the defensive zone. But under Blackburn's system, his job is to cover the left defenseman at the point. "He forgets a lot," Blackburn says. "You just close your eyes and hope."

Says Mike Rogers, who centers Howe's line, "Gordie doesn't really know where he is defensively. He doesn't like standing in one place. So you let him go wherever he wants. He can't change. He might be out at the point, but then he might be hiding behind the net somewhere. Our line's not that great defensively."

 

[matnor]

Anybody saw the game he played in the IHL as a 69 year old? I would imagine he had lost a step or three...

Would also be interesting if he had accepted Gretzky's offer to play with the Kings in 1990 as a 62 year old.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Anybody saw the game he played in the IHL as a 69 year old? I would imagine he had lost a step or three...

Would also be interesting if he had accepted Gretzky's offer to play with the Kings in 1990 as a 62 year old.

He only played a shift with in the IHL as a publicity stunt.

And he would have been terrible as a 62 year old with the Kings too.

Gordie was a physical freak of nature but even he was on his last legs as an NHL level player by 50ish.

 

[arrbez]

Would also be interesting if he had accepted Gretzky's offer to play with the Kings in 1990 as a 62 year old.

Gretzky offered that?

 

[Coach Craig]

He had more room to operate based on respect,

and probably based on his elbows were still working well at 52 as well.

 

[seventieslord]

- I never heard about Gretzky making an offer to Gordie. I'd like to hear more, if that is true.

- As for Howe's ice time: GF and GA figures suggest that his icetime made him the 10th forward most nights, after Stoughton, Boutette, Rogers, Keon, Rowe, Douglas, Carroll, Johnston/Lacroix (combined they played 60 games) and Debol.

So based on his 13.13 minutes that the hockey analysis group file says he would have had, he was actually scoring just as often per minute as anyone else was, save for the star forwards.

 

[matnor]

Gretzky offered that?

- I never heard about Gretzky making an offer to Gordie. I'd like to hear more, if that is true.

I remember reading about it in a Swedish hockey magazine in the late 90s. Apparently Gretzky offered Howe to join the Kings for a couple of games so that he could have played in the NHL for 6 decades. Howe stated that he thought his body could take it but that he had too much respect for the players to do it. I'll see if I can find a credible source for it.

Edit: Here's one by LA Times claiming that Howe initiated the idea:

http://articles.latimes.com/1989-10-13/sports/sp-235_1_gordie-howe

Three days earlier it seems Hartford was the first choice:

http://articles.latimes.com/1989-10-10/sports/sp-214_1_gordie-howe

 

[Scott1980]

I remember reading about it in a Swedish hockey magazine in the late 90s. Apparently Gretzky offered Howe to join the Kings for a couple of games so that he could have played in the NHL for 6 decades. Howe stated that he thought his body could take it but that he had too much respect for the players to do it. I'll see if I can find a credible source for it.

Edit: Here's one by LA Times claiming that Howe initiated the idea:

http://articles.latimes.com/1989-10-13/sports/sp-235_1_gordie-howe

Three days earlier it seems Hartford was the first choice:

http://articles.latimes.com/1989-10-10/sports/sp-214_1_gordie-howe

Bet if Gretzky would have called Minnie Minosa, he would have come!

 

[ForsbergForever]

There's was a cover article on him that season in Sports Illustrated that touches on some of those questions:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1120296/index.htm

Basically says that his speed had greatly diminished, and he was having trouble defensively, but the strength, hockey sense and flashes of meanness were still there. He had more room to operate based on respect, but that was earned. His 41 points (7th highest on the team) wasn't a publicity stunt, it actually happened.

It says in that same article that he wanted to come back and play for Detroit in the 77-78 season but GM Ted Lindsay wouldn't give up a 1st rounder in a trade for Mark Howe's rights. This got me thinking, what if Howe had not retired in 1971 and kept playing in the NHL through the 70s? I'm sure he wouldn't put up the 100 point seasons he had in the WHA but what would his stats have been like? His last season in the NHL was marred by wrist problems but had he gotten the surgury that off-season I think he would probably have returned to his peak of the previous few years for at least awhile longer.

 

[seventieslord]

It says in that same article that he wanted to come back and play for Detroit in the 77-78 season but GM Ted Lindsay wouldn't give up a 1st rounder in a trade for Mark Howe's rights. This got me thinking, what if Howe had not retired in 1971 and kept playing in the NHL through the 70s? I'm sure he wouldn't put up the 100 point seasons he had in the WHA but what would his stats have been like? His last season in the NHL was marred by wrist problems but had he gotten the surgury that off-season I think he would probably have returned to his peak of the previous few years for at least awhile longer.

I'm thinking that if 41 points is where he bottoms out, then the logical progression from that, is that he slowly declines, probably close to linearly, from 100 points to 41 between 1972 and 1981 if he stays in the NHL.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

There's was a cover article on him that season in Sports Illustrated that touches on some of those questions:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1120296/index.htm

Basically says that his speed had greatly diminished, and he was having trouble defensively, but the strength, hockey sense and flashes of meanness were still there. He had more room to operate based on respect, but that was earned. His 41 points (7th highest on the team) wasn't a publicity stunt, it actually happened.

This is true.

He skated like an old man, but he was still strong as hell and didn't mind getting his elbows or stick up. With almost everyone using curved sticks at the time, I think Gordie still shot the puck as hard as anyone on the backhand.

 

[crobro]

he could have played 3 more years as a 3rd 4th liner easy.

could have moved up to top line due to injuries to hartfords top players.

bobby hull made a comeback with the new york rangers in 1981 hoping to reunite with hedberg and nielson unfortunately the ranger coach at the time refused to play hull with the swedes during training camp and exibition.i do also recall seeing hull score a beauty of a goal for the rangers that pre-season

 

[Canadiens1958]

A Few Points

This is true.

He skated like an old man, but he was still strong as hell and didn't mind getting his elbows or stick up. With almost everyone using curved sticks at the time, I think Gordie still shot the puck as hard as anyone on the backhand.

Saw Gordie Howe play at the Montreal Forum twice in 1979-80 - regular season and the 2nd Hartford v Montreal playoff game.

Not even close to what he was in 1960 but more than adequate as a 3rd liner / 10th forward if his ice time was managed properly. The main obstacle was the length of the season combined with increased travel time.

Gordie Howe still had the basic appreciation of the game and the knack of making the game come to him as opposed to chasing the game. His +9 is very telling in this regard.Gordie Howe still had "presence" on the ice.

His overall numbers generated from limited ice time are impressive but should not be projections to what they would represent in a first line role. Much better than would have been expected from a fringer filling the same role.

 

[Big Phil]

I'm thinking that if 41 points is where he bottoms out, then the logical progression from that, is that he slowly declines, probably close to linearly, from 100 points to 41 between 1972 and 1981 if he stays in the NHL.

Well his last NHL season in 1971 saw him score 52 points in 63 games and he turned 43 years old that year. The year before in 1970 he scored 71 points in 76 games. He was already two years removed from his sole 100 point season and Detroit was getting worse and worse within the NHL, the 1970s were a disaster for that team. So considering we saw him decline as it is, I can't see him being anything more than a 50-60 point guy at the max for most of the 1970s

 

[seventieslord]

Well his last NHL season in 1971 saw him score 52 points in 63 games and he turned 43 years old that year. The year before in 1970 he scored 71 points in 76 games. He was already two years removed from his sole 100 point season and Detroit was getting worse and worse within the NHL, the 1970s were a disaster for that team. So considering we saw him decline as it is, I can't see him being anything more than a 50-60 point guy at the max for most of the 1970s

But scoring was also rising throughout the 19790s as further expansion and WHA defections made the league weaker. A 60-point average over those 9 seasons wouldn't be out of line when you see how he performed in the WHA and how that 0.7 factor seems to work pretty realistically for a lot of other guys.

 

[Crosbyfan]

But scoring was also rising throughout the 19790s as further expansion and WHA defections made the league weaker. A 60-point average over those 9 seasons wouldn't be out of line when you see how he performed in the WHA and how that 0.7 factor seems to work pretty realistically for a lot of other guys.

He certainly more than held his own against the Soviets in 74. He did miss one game, but was among the scoring leaders.

 

[crobro]

who were howes linemates in 79-80

was mark howe on the top line

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

who were howes linemates in 79-80

was mark howe on the top line

Mark Howe played defense once the Whale hit the NHL.

 

[crobro]

that 79-80 whalers team was pretty damn stacked.

when the whale started the season thier 3rd line was keon-g.howe-hull.

stoughton and rogers were a lethal combo