Good article on what makes a "hockey town"

NJD Jester

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The fools who perpetually talk about eliminating teams they perceive as unsuccessful are usually the ones who have never spent a Friday night at a game in Nashville, or Atlanta or Carolina or Tampa.

Been to Tampa. Anyone who, at this point, thinks the Bolts should be eliminated should themselves be eliminated from the gene pool.

But I've also been to Florida for a weekend game, and there's no comparison with their mates upstate. Miami (or Sunrise) just isn't a hockey town, not matter what they draw on a Friday night.
 

Resolute

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Mar 4, 2005
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When your team's owner also owns the arena the team plays in, the chances of said team picking up and moving are pretty close to non-existant. (Among teams that fit that description despite playing to less than capacity crowds regularly over the last several years: Boston, Chicago)

Someone else will have to list all the teams for which this doesn't apply to; off the top of my head, I know St. Louis and Pittsburgh are on the short list; Calgary may be on there.

The Flames do not technically own the Saddledome, but for all practical purposes they do. They pay the city a flat fee for full control of the arena, and gain all revenue from it.
 

dabid

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Feb 6, 2006
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Take it as a pathetic attempt as an apology but I obviously didnt know what I was talking about here. The Thrashers are probably my second favorite team behind the Bruins, if you were thinking I hated southern markets.
 

No-Twitch Tabitha

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Been to Tampa. Anyone who, at this point, thinks the Bolts should be eliminated should themselves be eliminated from the gene pool.

But I've also been to Florida for a weekend game, and there's no comparison with their mates upstate. Miami (or Sunrise) just isn't a hockey town, not matter what they draw on a Friday night.


:bow:

So, what are you doing for dinner? :)

Do any of you "Southern/Non-Canadian markets shouldn't have hockey" types realize how illogical/short-sighted/downright stupid your argument is? Yes, hockey is a "winter" sport, but winter is not subjective i.e. you don't need snow to have winter. Winter is a season, a natural planetary phenomenon, and hockey can and should be played anywhere (especially to be enjoyed and appreciated).
 

John Belushi

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Feb 5, 2006
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So if the Bruins draw 16,000 fans a game and Atlanta only draws 15,500 that means what? That Boston's a good hockey market and Atlanta automatically isn't?

If Tampa draws 20,000 does that mean that it's a 25% better hockey market than Boston is?

If the B's were an elite team they'd draw more sellouts. Same goes for Atlanta, Nashville, Phoenix etc. Tampa got a huge bump in fan support from winning the cup. Carolina will get the same sort of bump next season. Winning teams draw well. Losing teams do not. It's not complicated.


The Minnesota Wild have had some pretty weak teams, yet they still have sold out every game they have played. Columbus, a non-traditional hockey market, I'm sure is different.
 

Bear of Bad News

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I have not met a single person who thinks that Tampa shouldn't have a team. But Florida, Carolina, Atlanta and Anaheim/LA? Yes.

Alright, name the people who think that.

I seriously cannot believe that you bumped a four-day-dormant thread just to add this.
 

OG6ix

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The Minnesota Wild have had some pretty weak teams, yet they still have sold out every game they have played. Columbus, a non-traditional hockey market, I'm sure is different.

Columbus is a non traditional market? Since when? Do you even know where Columbus, Ohio is? It snows there and gets pretty cold from what I hear. It is pretty close to Pittsburgh, Detroit, Toronto, and Buffalo. All of which are considered "Traditional Hockey Markets."
 

dafoomie

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Jul 22, 2005
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So if the Bruins draw 16,000 fans a game and Atlanta only draws 15,500 that means what? That Boston's a good hockey market and Atlanta automatically isn't?

If Tampa draws 20,000 does that mean that it's a 25% better hockey market than Boston is?

If the B's were an elite team they'd draw more sellouts. Same goes for Atlanta, Nashville, Phoenix etc. Tampa got a huge bump in fan support from winning the cup. Carolina will get the same sort of bump next season. Winning teams draw well. Losing teams do not. It's not complicated.
1. The Bruins drew poorly due to a poor on ice product (5th worst in the league), anger towards management (Joe Thornton traded away), and borderline hatred towards ownership and a deeply rooted perception that ownership is a penny pinching outfit that cares more about selling beer and popcorn than the on ice product. The Thrashers on the other hand were pretty close to a playoff spot last year.

2. When did hockey start being limited to the NHL? Almost 1/3rd of the AHL is in New England, there are 10 Division I college hockey teams in Massachusetts, over 200 High School teams, and probably more rinks than in all of the South. Ever hear of the Beanpot? Its a tournament of all the D1 college hockey teams in Boston, thats been around for 54 years. Who else has that (or at least didn't copy that from us)?

Your point about attendance being tied to the team's success is probably true, but I don't know why you were picking on Boston. Maybe I misread something.
 
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Bear of Bad News

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2. When did hockey start being limited to the NHL? Almost 1/3rd of the AHL is in New England, there are 10 Division I college hockey teams in Massachusetts, over 200 High School teams, and probably more rinks than in all of the South. Ever hear of the Beanpot? Its a tournament of all the D1 college hockey teams in Boston, thats been around for 54 years. Who else has that (or at least didn't copy that from us)?

I'll trade you one strawman argument for another: how many professional hockey teams are there in Texas? Go ahead and guess.
 

Bear of Bad News

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I don't know why you were picking on Boston. Maybe I misread something.

Check and see who brought up the ridiculous argument in the first place (I'll give you a hint. He's based in Cape Cod and has a Bruin for an avatar).
 

Evil Genius

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1. The Bruins drew poorly due to a poor on ice product (5th worst in the league), anger towards management (Joe Thornton traded away), and borderline hatred towards ownership and a deeply rooted perception that ownership is a penny pinching outfit that cares more about selling beer and popcorn than the on ice product. The Thrashers on the other hand were pretty close to a playoff spot last year.

2. When did hockey start being limited to the NHL? Almost 1/3rd of the AHL is in New England, there are 10 Division I college hockey teams in Massachusetts, over 200 High School teams, and probably more rinks than in all of the South. Ever hear of the Beanpot? Its a tournament of all the D1 college hockey teams in Boston, thats been around for 54 years. Who else has that (or at least didn't copy that from us)?

Your point about attendance being tied to the team's success is probably true, but I don't know why you were picking on Boston. Maybe I misread something.

1. You're basically making my original point here. All of what you have said is true about Boston and it has affected attendance. People are less likely to buy a crappy product; which the Bruins have largely been. Atlanta's been in the NHL cince 1999 now and still have not made the playoffs. Last season was the first time they've even been over .500. And they've got a real Crackerjack box ownership group running the show as well in the ATL. Yet the Thrashers are still drawing pretty well for having been doormats for the vast majority of their existance.

2. New England is a fantastic place for hockey. Every bit as rich a history as in Minnesota, or Michigan or Canada even. I always try to watch a bit of and follow the Beanpot. I was'nt trying to bash on Boston specifically; just trying to make a point about what makes a hockey market. They person I was responding to on this board happened to be a Bruins fan.

I grew up in Toronto, a huge hockey town, and moved to Atlanta which is a growing hockey town. For me it's been very intersting as a hockey nut to look at and assess the differences in the Toronto/Atlanta fans and how the teams are operating from a business perspective.

Just since I moved here, which was about when the Thrashers entered the NHL I've seen considerable growth in interest in hockey at all levels. Floor hockey, roller hockey, more ice rinks and youth/adult ice hockey leagues. It's coming off a modest base, to be sure, but it is soundly trending in the right direction. Will hockey ever be as big as football or baseball is in Atlanta/the south? I'd say most probably not. Personally I like how hockey in general and the NHL specifically has grown in these newer/non traditional markets.
 
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OG6ix

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I don't think the goal should be to make hockey as popular as Football or Baseball in any town. The goal should be to make the sport respectable again where day time sports talk radio don't totally ignore it or even go out of their way to diss it.
 

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Columbus is a non traditional market? Since when? Do you even know where Columbus, Ohio is? It snows there and gets pretty cold from what I hear. It is pretty close to Pittsburgh, Detroit, Toronto, and Buffalo. All of which are considered "Traditional Hockey Markets."
Hell OSU has been playing hockey for 40 years.
 

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2. When did hockey start being limited to the NHL? Almost 1/3rd of the AHL is in New England, there are 10 Division I college hockey teams in Massachusetts, over 200 High School teams, and probably more rinks than in all of the South. Ever hear of the Beanpot? Its a tournament of all the D1 college hockey teams in Boston, thats been around for 54 years. Who else has that (or at least didn't copy that from us)?

Your point about attendance being tied to the team's success is probably true, but I don't know why you were picking on Boston. Maybe I misread something.
I don't think anyone is picking on Boston as being bad fans it has more to do with anyone can get disgusted enough to stay away from their team, it just becomes a cudgel to use against a fanbase whose team wasn't created on the 8th day.

And I couldn't agree more about hockey not being just about the NHL. IMO a college program takes more dedication than a pro team.
 

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