Post-Game Talk: Gonna Stu on this loss for a while

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Nah. Skinner is a piece of shit

Going to say this respectfully. I totally get the anger at Skinner the goaltender. I'm totally pissed too and feel he is letting down this team. Just feel the anger and frustration on fan boards doesn't need to slip into personal attacks on him or any player. Dissecting his game is fair target but why not leave the personal attacks to other fanbases?

Not trying to single you out. Just an edge in tone that creeps into our emotional reaction which goes a bit too far at times to the fanatic in sports fan, imo.

 

[Cloned]

Because my rep is I don't respond to posts lol. C'mon, I over respond to a fault. I'm trying to disengage to avoid friction with you. So that we can be good. Right? this topic is not important enough for our posting relationship to go sideways. I'm trying to take the high road while being fairly shitty at that.

Honestly I didn't read the post because its just arguing with me at this point. I do it too so I recognize the tact. Lets call it a night.

You’re getting soft in your old age.

 

[guymez]

I think the point I'm trying to make is obvious. I'm sick and tired of people claiming these "insane scoring chances" the Oilers give up are exclusive to the Oilers. Its actually laughable that people post this shit and actually believe what they're saying. Yeah, the Canucks defended well given that they spent about 35 minutes stuck in their own zone tonight, but they gave up numerous quality chances and I didn't even have to think or dive into it to disprove your claim that Edmonton didn't have any uncontested slot shots. You guys need to stop with this bullshit about the Oilers having some horrific defensive errors that we don't see from other teams when I watch these mistakes in every single series. Hell I watched Dallas and Boston make at least 5 of them the last game each of them played.

You don't need to try and soften the blow on Skinner he has been historically bad in the playoffs. The worst goalie in the playoffs since Dan Cloutier.

Again...how many wide open uncontested shots in the low slot did the Canucks give up to the Oilers top goal scorers?
How about none.
Uncontested is the point of what I am saying here. Almost always a stick or a body in the lane or pressure forced a shot quicker reducing the chances of getting a good shot away.

Not saying that the Oilers didnt deserve to win. Also not saying that Skinner didnt play bad.
He did.
Also not saying that Silovs didnt play well...he did.

That Boeser chance was golden though. Their top goal scorer has tons of time and gets to walk in to the low slot completely uncontested and pick a corner.
He had all the time in the world. Nobody even close to him. Monumental breakdown.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Hey brother ... can you spare a Klim Kostin?

This team badly misses a plus sized hard, greasy game support guy like the Klim Reaper or Kassian. Say what you will about the need/function during the regular season audition time. Hard, grinding physicality comes to play at playoff time. There's been no response to a shocking Tocchet alleyfight game by the Canucks team. Stunned to see an Oilers team so unengaged to play hard in the trenches.

Shocking isn't it?

Kane is content on the thrown in bench to get a PP out of it. Does the whole grin and talking thing but doesn't get it, they equal it out. Not once was there payback. Really I've seen Desharnais fight. my take is he'd just get beat up. Nurse is too much into quality of life these days to even fight.

Its sad too that Mcd who has had to go into the trenches and become a hitter because this club is so lacking in physicality gets maimed like that post game and nobody doing anything other than a little scrum.

That is your f***ing star playe who just got sandwiched with two simultaneous crosschecks. Should be bedlam at that point. Clear the benches donnybrook. You cannot have that happen to McDavid at the end of hte game. a few glove in faces is nothing. Should have been a brawl.

You’re getting soft in your old age.

I'd call it wisdom but that would be a lie.

 

[Cloned]

Again...how many wide open uncontested shots in the low slot did the Canucks give up to the Oilers top goal scorers?
How about none.
Uncontested is the point of what I am saying here. Almost always a stick or a body in the lane or pressure forced a shot quicker reducing the chances of getting a good shot away.

Not saying that the Oilers didnt deserve to win. Also not saying that Skinner didnt play bad.
He did.
Also not saying that Silovs didnt play well...he did.

Skinner is basically Andy Moog.

Decent in the regular season when you could afford to have the off night here and there but just choked in the playoffs year after year.

Problem is the Oilers now don’t have a Grant Fuhr sitting on the bench.

 

[guymez]

Skinner is basically Andy Moog.

Decent in the regular season when you could afford to have the off night here and there but just choked in the playoffs year after year.

Problem is the Oilers now don’t have a Grant Fuhr sitting on the bench.

I seem to recall Moog having a decent playoffs one year. Cant remember which year that was though.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Going to say this respectfully. I totally get the anger at Skinner the goaltender. I'm totally pissed too and feel he is letting down this team. Just feel the anger and frustration on fan boards doesn't need to slip into personal attacks on him or any player. Dissecting his game is fair target but why not leave the personal attacks to other fanbases?

Not trying to single you out. Just an edge in tone that creeps into our emotional reaction which goes a bit too far at times to the fanatic in sports fan, imo.

Skinner is a big stinking steaming bag of shit.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Shocking isn't it?

Kane is content on the thrown in bench to get a PP out of it. Does the whole grin and talking thing but doesn't get it, they equal it out. Not once was there payback. Really I've seen Desharnais fight. my take is he'd just get beat up. Nurse is too much into quality of life these days to even fight.

Its sad too that Mcd who has had to go into the trenches and become a hitter because this club is so lacking in physicality gets maimed like that post game and nobody doing anything other than a little scrum.

That is your f***ing star playe who just got sandwiched with two simultaneous crosschecks. Should be bedlam at that point. Clear the benches donnybrook. You cannot have that happen to McDavid at the end of hte game. a few glove in faces is nothing. Should have been a brawl.


I'd call it wisdom but that would be a lie.

Yup. I've never seen an Oilers team content to turn the other cheek, like never. Meanwhile Rutherford transformed the Canucks into a big, physical defense over the course of last off-season and in-season raiding of the minor pro Calgary franchise. Tocchet has them playing an alleyfight, greasy game to go with their skill.

Oilers have a lot of cerebral types and could use a few meat eaters like Kostin and Kassian. Tough functional players pay dividends when the second season comes and the game style gets unrelentingly harder and contested.

 

[McFlyingV]

Again...how many wide open uncontested shots in the low slot did the Canucks give up to the Oilers top goal scorers?
How about none.
Uncontested is the point of what I am saying here. Almost always a stick or a body in the lane or pressure forced a shot quicker reducing the chances of getting a good shot away.

Not saying that the Oilers didnt deserve to win. Also not saying that Skinner didnt play bad.
He did.
Also not saying that Silovs didnt play well...he did.

That Boeser chance was golden though. Their top goal scorer has tons of time and gets to walk in to the low slot completely uncontested and pick a corner.
He had all the time in the world. Nobody even close to him. Monumental breakdown.

How are you doubling down on this? Draisaitl 2 uncontested breakaways. McDavid's goal last game - absolutely uncontested breakaway. Had time to slow down and stick handle 5 times before picking his spot.

The notion that only our team gives up these chances is just borderline comedy at this point.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Skinner is a big stinking steaming bag of shit.

That is critically correct. haha. I just don't groove to attacks getting personal.

 

[Cloned]

I seem to recall Moog having a decent playoffs one year. Cant remember which year that was though.

Skinner probably has a decent playoffs in him sometime in his career. Problem is that it’ll be the exception rather than the rule.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yup. I've never seen an Oilers team content to turn the other cheek, like never. Meanwhile Rutherford transformed the Canucks into a big, physical defense over the course of last off-season and in-season raiding of the minor pro Calgary franchise. Tocchet has them playing an alleyfight, greasy game to go with their skill.

Oilers have a lot of cerebral types and could use a few meat eaters like Kostin and Kassian. Tough functional players pay dividends when the second season comes and the game style gets unrelentingly harder and contested.

On the ohter hand, and not sure if you caught my other post this is the same out of control nucks org that Had Crawford as headcoach, A player posting a head bounty on Moore, and Bertuzzi winning the idiot prize.

This org is now loading up on neanderthals like Zadorov, Joshua, Soucy, Myers. Its not incidental that its Zad and Soucy in on that maiming of Mcd and Tocchet is head coach. its chapter two of the same sordid thing we've seen before springing up in the rot of Vancouver.

At that time it was also the same dynamic. They have these soft skilled players so they have to hire some gorillas to make it work. With the NHL letting all this goonsquad get a pass.

Tocchet is no angel and he's aiding and abetting this shit. He wants it to happen.

But the NHL loves this too. The Nurse crosscheck call was laughable. The Canucks had done worse 20X. The drai penalty for interference while Nucks are impeding and interfering every Oilers rush. Its the NHL wanting to f*** us over allowing this shit. Allowing this to occur to their Messi.

 

[TheNumber4]

Because my rep is I don't respond to posts lol. C'mon, I over respond to a fault. I'm trying to disengage to avoid friction with you. So that we can be good. Right? this topic is not important enough for our posting relationship to go sideways. I'm trying to take the high road while being fairly shitty at that.

Honestly I didn't read the post because its just arguing with me at this point. I do it too so I recognize the tact. Lets call it a night.

I mean you you do and you don’t. You don’t reply or you ignore points made at your convenience. Or to just avoid addressing inaccuracies. And in a conversation you started and came at me first to imply I was disingenuous. That’s pretty far from taking the high road. Oh and it’s only “arguing with you” if you can’t admit to a simple error of not realizing a goal was tipped or didnt see the boot or didn’t realize it wasn’t 5 hole. It happens, you can say yeh I saw that wrong, as another form of taking the “high road”. But whatever, it does seem like once again I wasted my time trying to have legitimate discussion on these goals against with you, if you just bow out like this. But I’m fine with the bow out though, so we can move on. So let’s move on.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I mean you you do and you don’t. You don’t reply or you ignore points made at your convenience. Or to just avoid addressing inaccuracies. And in a conversation you started and came at me first to imply I was disingenuous. That’s pretty far from taking the high road. Oh and it’s only “arguing with you” if you can’t admit to a simple error of not realizing a goal was tipped or didnt see the boot or didn’t realize it wasn’t 5 hole. It happens, you can say yeh I saw that wrong, as another form of taking the “high road”. But whatever, it does seem like once again I wasted my time trying to have legitimate discussion on these goals against with you, if you just bow out like this. But I’m fine with the bow out though, so we can move on. So let’s move on.

You have concern with my tact? After you saying I was lying? I let that go. You do the bolded too. nearly everybody does online.

I certainly don't comprehend why the defense of Skinner is so important to you and I won't anytime soon. Its a done topic, and not just between us. Skinner should be done as our starter if the club ever wants to get anywhere. he's not worth arguing about further. He's aggravating enough as it is.

If you drop Skinner like a bad habit you certainly should at this point. Really anybody should've stopped thinking he was enough when he failed last playoffs. It was a spectacular failure. Not just bad, but the worst playoff goalie performances Id' ever witnessed here.

Meanwhile your disgust at Nurse is so thorough that you've a dozen times said that he booted the puck in. as if thats what actually transpired. It almost gets to the point where you seem to believe it.

Nurse made incidental slight contact with Skinners stick that the puck hit, and the puck deflected in net through Skinners gaping 5 hole. No booting motion actually involved. But in your zeal to defend Skinner and blame others thats where it leads you.

 

[DaGap]

You have concern with my tact? After you saying I was lying? I let that go. You do the bolded too. nearly everybody does online.

I certainly don't comprehend why the defense of Skinner is so important to you and I won't anytime soon. Its a done topic, and not just between us. Skinner should be done as our starter if the club ever wants to get anywhere. he's not worth arguing about further. He's aggravating enough as it is.

If you drop Skinner like a bad habit you certainly should at this point. Really anybody should've stopped thinking he was enough when he failed last playoffs. It was a spectacular failure. Not just bad, one of the worst playoff goalie performances Id' ever witnessed here.

Guess you don't watch much hockey

 

[bellagiobob]

Knob needs to say McDavid is a game time decision because of that cross check, that’s the only way you could get the league to think about suspending them.

I don’t even think that the league even knows or cares that we had a game last night. This series is an afterthought for them.

 

[TheNumber4]

You have concern with my tact? After you saying I was lying? I let that go. You do the bolded too. nearly everybody does online.

I certainly don't comprehend why the defense of Skinner is so important to you and I won't anytime soon. Its a done topic, and not just between us. Skinner should be done as our starter if the club ever wants to get anywhere. he's not worth arguing about further. He's aggravating enough as it is.

If you drop Skinner like a bad habit you certainly should at this point. Really anybody should've stopped thinking he was enough when he failed last playoffs. It was a spectacular failure. Not just bad, one of the worst playoff goalie performances Id' ever witnessed here.

Meanwhile your disgust at Nurse is so thorough that you've a dozen times said that he booted the puck in. as if thats what actually transpired. It almost gets to the point where you seem to believe it.

Nurse made incidental slight contact with Skinners stick that the puck hit, and the puck deflected in net through Skinners gaping 5 hole. No booting motion actually involved.

Online sure, but in our conversations I don’t. I address your points. You ignore mine when you are wrong about something. It’s selective, which makes it disingenuous and a waste of time to take part in.

And there you go again just selectively ignoring points and addressing them as you see fit for your narrative. Ignoring the fact that it didn’t go 5 hole. Pretending you know exactly where that puck would have bounced if Nurses skate didn’t contact Skinners paddle. And saying I’m unconditionally defending Skinner even though I call out bad goals by Skinner in real time in the GDT.

My comments on Nurse and his plays are atleast factual. Saying “Booting the puck in” is just short hand for saying he skates into skinners paddle causing it to then deflect the puck into the net. Which I’ve also said in our discussions. So you know exactly what I mean when I say he boots the stick or puck.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Skinner probably has a decent playoffs in him sometime in his career. Problem is that it’ll be the exception rather than the rule.

My two cent Freud is Skinner's mental game is a work in progress. He adopted Stoicism in minor pro and is a work in progress in terms of living its principles and philosophy. Comes across in his media interviews talking accountability and finding the positives in his games regardless of results. To dwell on failure is to live in failure. It's a process to manifest success through self belief.

I think the reality of this team's expectation and the load required to be its #1 goaltender through its window is starting to throw real doubt into himself and his game. Meanwhile a raw rookie is playing with house money at the other end with leash given as a third organization option with the team's second available behind him (and a true #1 working through recovery). Took Mike Smith a lot of NHL seasons to build up his mental game to become the beast he was. Organizational failure has placed this team's fortune on a rookie, now sophomore tender who was basically a mid-level prospect now hitting way above his weight class.

Skinner might have rock solid mental strength, coping and resiliency with three to four years NHL seasons underneath him. Able to ride this massive pressure better. Right now I think there's a crisis of faith (in self) has snuck in. I fully expect Pickard for game 4.

Two cent speculative analysis out...

 

[2for1PizzaPastuh]

What on earth does the result of the shot have to do with where the shot was taken? You're back peddling. How about Vinny's completely uncontested shot from the slot that ended up behind Silovs? How about Nuge's uncontested shot that missed the net in the dying seconds from the slot? The Canucks gave up way more than Edmonton did tonight and trying to mental gymnastics your way around blaming the defence and not the goalie who has been historical levels of bad (see my mainboard thread) is laughable.

I'm sick and tired of people claiming the Oilers are magically the only team who makes alarming defensive mistakes resulting in incredible scoring chances. Do these people not watch other teams in the playoffs? Do they even watch the actual games they're commenting on? I see chances like the Boeser goal you're referring to happen in basically every single playoff game that has happened this year and sometimes I see it 5 or 6 times.

Canucks fans don’t even watch their own team outside of the postseason let alone other teams

 

[Drivesaitl]

Online sure, but in our conversations I don’t. I address your points. You ignore mine when you are wrong about something. It’s selective, which makes it disingenuous and a waste of time to take part in.

And there you go again just selectively ignoring points and addressing them as you see fit for your narrative. Ignoring the fact that it didn’t go 5 hole. Pretending you know exactly where that puck would have bounced if Nurses skate didn’t contact Skinners paddle. And saying I’m unconditionally defending Skinner even though I call out bad goals by Skinner in real time in the GDT.

My comments on Nurse and his plays are atleast factual. Saying “Booting the puck in” is just short hand for saying he skates into skinners paddle causing it to then deflect the puck into the net. Which I’ve also said in our discussions. So you know exactly what I mean when I say he boots the stick or puck.

You're professionally arguing. Again theres no point doing this. Its why I'm not responding on a point by point basis and I won't because I'm sick of even wasting time in discussion of Skinner.

g,night. This time I mean it. Actually going to bed.

My two cent Freud is Skinner's mental game is a work in progress. He adopted Stoicism in minor pro and is a work in progress in terms of living its principles and philosophy. Comes across in his media interviews talking accountability and finding the positives in his games regardless of results. To dwell on failure is to live in failure. It's a process to manifest success through self belief.

I think the reality of this team's expectation and the load required to be its #1 goaltender through its window is starting to throw real doubt into himself and his game. Meanwhile a raw rookie is playing with house money at the other end with leash given as a third organization option with the team's second available behind him (and a true #1 working through recovery). Took Mike Smith a lot of NHL seasons to build up his mental game to become the beast he was. Organizational failure has placed this team's fortune on a rookie, now sophomore tender who was basically a mid-level prospect now hitting way above his weight class.

Skinner might have rock solid mental strength, coping and resiliency with three to four years NHL seasons underneath him. Able to ride this massive pressure better. Right now I think there's a crisis of faith (in self) has snuck in. I fully expect Pickard for game 4.

Two cent speculative analysis out...

The stoicism involved in accepting any result is accepting failure.

That may seem to have worked for Skinner in getting to the show. It doesn't serve him well here where fire is required.

The brand of Stoicism you describe would salve ones nerves but in the same way preclude too much escalation or gearing up for big games. Because it reduces emotional responsivity.

Moot point anyway because even if Skinner did have the right mental game he doesn't have the sufficient skill and fundamentals to be a starter for anyone.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

On the ohter hand, and not sure if you caught my other post this is the same out of control nucks org that Had Crawford as headcoach, A player posting a head bounty on Moore, and Bertuzzi winning the idiot prize.

This org is now loading up on neanderthals like Zadorov, Joshua, Soucy, Myers. Its not incidental that its Zad and Soucy in on that maiming of Mcd and Tocchet is head coach. its chapter two of the same sordid thing we've seen before springing up in the rot of Vancouver.

At that time it was also the same dynamic. They have these soft skilled players so they have to hire some gorillas to make it work. With the NHL letting all this goonsquad get a pass.

Tocchet is no angel and he's aiding and abetting this shit. He wants it to happen.

But the NHL loves this too. The Nurse crosscheck call was laughable. The Canucks had done worse 20X. The drai penalty for interference while Nucks are impeding and interfering every Oilers rush. Its the NHL wanting to f*** us over allowing this shit. Allowing this to occur to their Messi.

I think Tocchet is 20x the coach that Crawford was. Far more controlled and methodical in his approach. Has built a strong foundational culture on work rate, committed, hard style of play, accountability, and structure. Direct with his players. Fail to meet expectation you're on the bench or traded to Calgary. Rutherford transformed a soft, finesse team with an off-season that brought in trees on defense and high work rate bottom six centre men. Then added another tree and a strong two way centreman in-season dealing with the minor pro Calgary franchise. Moved out soft, big money players to execute the deals.

Tocchet has orchestrated an alleyfight against a strangely passive Oilers team. Topped off tonight with zero defense for McDavid who's left to engage with the two biggest players on the ice. Well, at least one had the nutsack to engage directly versus a dirty behind the back crosscheck.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

You're professionally arguing. Again theres no point doing this. Its why I'm not responding on a point by point basis and I won't because I'm sick of even wasting time in discussion of Skinner.

g,night. This time I mean it. Actually going to bed.


The stoicism involved in accepting any result is accepting failure.

Out of my depth describing it. My point is moreso is this is a player trying to cement a belief system playing the hardest position in the game on a team and franchise with all the pressure in the world to win now. He's found a toolkit aka stoicism in which he thinks can harden the belief system required to meet the performance expectation required. Think he's holding on tightly right now but cracks might be showing.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Out of my depth describing it. My point is moreso is this is a player trying to cement a belief system playing the hardest position in the game on a team and franchise with all the pressure in the world to win now. He's found a toolkit aka stoicism in which he thinks can harden the belief system required to meet the performance expectation required.

It is right in my toolhouse. I understand the concept and have read up on Skinners approach and who he had as mentors.

This appealed to him because it gave him apparent control over his reactions. Stopped thinking about failure etc. Positive mental thoughts.

In anycase Skinner is no philosopher and I'm not sure he's even a sharp pencil. this tool wielded by him is likely something he comprehends only partially and not dynamically. i'e. he has limited mental approach and toolsets to the negation of others. Sounds actually like a lot of his game. halfbaked.

Don't take this the wrong way but its interesting even that theres been so much focus on Skinner in the press that we know so many details about him. We know as much about his voyage to here than the real superstars like McDrai. The media really seem to talk up a big story line about Skinner. Its Skinner himself that starts these self talking points telling others everything he's done. Thats a certain level of self absorption that is trait to things I won't mention.

My take on Skinner is he's the kind of guy that reads a few books and thinks he knows a subject area entirely. His greatest gift seems in convincing others how hard they should work on his behalf. Charmed life if you can get it. So many of his backers in hockey that say they saw so much in him and wanted so much for him to succeed. It starts being about Skinners greatest asset is being convincing, rather than being skilled. if you follow what I'm saying.

I think from the press point of view theres a fascination with players that come from ECHL or nowhere. Its a good story but man do the press write a lot about him. As if he's the greatest player on the team...Its possible that he's the best at self promotion. I think even probable.

 

[Spawn]

Rodrigue need to see games next season.

He should have seen games this season.

Again...how many wide open uncontested shots in the low slot did the Canucks give up to the Oilers top goal scorers?
How about none.

Two Draisaitl breakaways don’t count? Lol

Sure Drai hit a post on one of em. Guess what happened on the other… their goalie made a save.

 

[TheNumber4]

You're professionally arguing. Again theres no point doing this. Its why I'm not responding on a point by point basis and I won't because I'm sick of even wasting time in discussion of Skinner.

g,night. This time I mean it. Actually going to bed.


The stoicism involved in accepting any result is accepting failure.

That may seem to have worked for Skinner in getting to the show. It doesn't serve him well here where fire is required.

The brand of Stoicism you describe would salve ones nerves but in the same way preclude too much escalation or gearing up for big games. Because it reduces emotional responsivity.

Moot point anyway because even if Skinner did have the right mental game he doesn't have the sufficient skill and fundamentals to be a starter for anyone.

Lol. Professionally arguing. K. I’m only addressing the exact points you came at with me with when I made a post about no true softies tonight but not enough big saves. You came at me and described a soft goal a certain way that was just factually wrong, how am I sposed to address that without establishing what actually happened on said play. Or others we’ve discussed on the subject of what a soft goal is or isn’t. You hate wasting time talking about Skinner? Could have fooled me lol. But yeh this conversation has run its course and doesn’t help no one. Annnnyways have a good night and i do mean it too. It’s just hockey at the end of the day. No need to beef so I’ll say this, Skinner sucked tonight, we need more big saves, and this argument sucked, so I’m fine if we drop it.