WC: GOLD: Finland vs Canada

[Finnswiss]

Wow Congratulations to Finland!!!!
I think every Finn agrees with me saying that Jukka Jalonen is the best coach they ever had so far. Let's check what he achieved with the NT:

1919 WHC: Gold
1921 WHC: Silver
1922 Olympics AND WHC: Gold

And I'm not sure but was J. Jalonen not coach 2011 when they won Gold too wasn't he?

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you almost nailed the years

Oh, I accidentally named J. Jalonen to the Superman and assigned him the titles when he wasn't even born yet.
He broke another record after that lineup. The oldest coach in the history of ice hockey, as a well over centenarian to win multiple titles.

 

[Mestaruus]

Jesus. I cried last night when we won. I have been a complete dick during games towards opponents. It is so hard to hold back your feelings when you are passionate about something.

I actually started jumping when Manninen scored the GWG and I didn't do anything like that when Finland won Olympic gold for example. It was probably because I didn't fully believe that Finland could beat Canada on 3on3 OT, because I feel like the advantage goes to Canada in that situation because of player types in their roster. The beginning of the OT looked surprisingly good for Finland so I started believing more on Finland's OT win during the OT. Also I feel like the 3on3 OT WHC final system robbed our win last year. It's fair that the score is 1-1 now.

 

[AKQJ]

I actually started jumping when Manninen scored the GWG and I didn't do anything like that when Finland won Olympic gold for example. It was probably because I didn't fully believe that Finland could beat Canada on 3on3 OT, because I feel like the advantage goes to Canada in that situation because of player types in their roster. The beginning of the OT looked surprisingly good for Finland so I started believing more on Finland's OT win during the OT. Also I feel like the 3on3 OT WHC final system robbed our win last year. It's fair that the score is 1-1 now.

GWG in overtime and one scored somewhere in the game - the load of emotions is someway different. The moment of surprise doubles it for sure! And Canada in Tampere was far more stronger team than this ROC one in Beijing. Still the Olympic Gold was something ... very different and important too. Dream year for Finnish hockey. 1995 was nevö foget one, but I am 100% sure nobody in Finland forgets 2022!

 

[Mestaruus]

GWG in overtime and one scored somewhere in the game - the load of emotions is someway different. The moment of surprise doubles it for sure! And Canada in Tampere was far more stronger team than this ROC one in Beijing. Still the Olympic Gold was something ... very different and important too. Dream year for Finnish hockey. 1995 was nevö foget one, but I am 100% sure nobody in Finland forgets 2022!

Biggest win of Finland is the 2019 WHC win for me.

1995 can't beat that because Finland would've eventually won gold anyways sooner or later. With Aravirta being the head coach probably later. Maybe someone like Erkka Westerlund could've pulled it off sooner. Aravirta was an important figure in Finland's success back then though, but he wasn't the champion caliber head coach and his rosters' depths weren't the same as Finland's depth is today so that also made it harder to win championships.

 

[FinPanda]

Ohtamaa 99% saved a sure goal there, but I wouldn't say that he saved the game. We don't know how the game would've gone after the situation would change like that. "Butterfly effect" is a good way to say it as someone said in this thread. One action leads to another. I don't see it as straight forward or black and white as you implied.

One thing is for sure though, if Armia produced a goal, Ohtamaa's action was worth the same.

Fair enough..

You're the second guy saying the exactly same thing as a response. I agreed with them and I move on, maybe it was a silly thought in the first place

 

[AKQJ]

Yeah winning is special and like Jukka Jalonen said it is like comparing the wins is like comparing ones children. I never forget 1995. It was first and special. It was something I had been hoping, praying, not believing and use ALL other strong emotions. And then 2019 happened. EVERYBODY was before the games down looking at the roster and then it happened. Sweden, Russia, Canada. Mörkö and & Co tear down all. But also Olympics 2022. It was kind of closing the circle. After failing year after year (1986 specially) at World Championships the first ever medal came in Olympics with silver in 1988. There was no Final back those days. And USSR was Gold winner that seemed to be unreachable and silver had kind of lightning from the clear sky. And now home tournament at Tampere 2022. I have been at those since 1997. And felt the dissapointment like all my Finnish brothers. Actually first time ever beside that emotion I remember Basel & Zürich 1998 Worlds and double final lost with 1 goal (remember sitting in the arena at Zürich jumping when Ville Peltonen scored and then when it was taken away for reason I still do not understand)... Finland was with Janne Laukkanen from NHL and Sweden was dream team of theirs, in a way 2019 but wit different ending. I have been lucky to see those winnings always in real time as several U20 and U18 sucsesses. I have brought my kid to Finland to play hockey and he has found his dream in the game. I have met lots of Finnish heroes from Jari Kurri and Teemu Selänne to Jukka Jalonen and Jere Lehtinen personally. I respect them all as they have made me happy deep down in my heart beyond words. I treasure every single win of Finland. And despite often as Estonian had double joy when often they play our national anthem when Finns win. But yesterday watching Vesala & Torikka performing "Finlandia" I understood the tears in Jalonen and Manninen eyes. Emotional. Hockey is all about emotions. It has effected my life. In 2019 it was just watching the game at home Järvenpää then. I just asked my son and daughter that what if we jump in car and drive to Kosice to watch it live. We did it and despite being back home by Finals I saw the Champions live there, as I saw this year in Tampere. Emotional indeed. And Respect. Respect to every single of the wins I have been talking in here.

 

[llwyd]

Anyway, about Björninen, I think it was more embellishment than dive. These are IIHF referees and he had a stick between his legs. Not that I hugely care: these things happen regularly in the IIHF tournaments and we have suffered from them more often that not. So, do dry up your tears.

 

[FiLe]

Biggest win of Finland is the 2019 WHC win for me.

I also rank this one the highest, given how insane odds Finland managed to beat.

The most memorable for me personally, however, was 2011. I am old enough that I was there to witness 1995 and did celebrate it, but I was still a bit too young then to really understand how much it meant - after all the close calls from the previous two decades or so. But 2011... I had been there personally to witness all the bitter disappointments from the previous decade and a half, as had most of my age cohort, late GenXers/early Millennials. So, when that second title finally came...

After 1995, the country had been like a pressure cooker building up steam in anticipation of the 2nd title - and then the lid blew off. The entire country just went - absolutely - nuts for a couple of days. Sure, we've had a bunch of other parties since then, but I don't think they've quite reached that level. It was just total revelry.

 

[llwyd]

Though to be fair, I have never seen the 1987 Canada Cup as totally legitimate for the the blatant foul before the winning goal or the Summit Series for the absolutely disgusting taking out of Kharlamov. So, I understand if that stick between the legs embellishment by Björninen casts a shadow on our gold for some people

 

[Czechboy]

Anyway, about Björninen, I think it was more embellishment than dive. These are IIHF referees and he had a stick between his legs. Not that I hugely care: these things happen regularly in the IIHF tournaments and we have suffered from them more often that not. So, do dry up your tears.

This is where I"m at...

Chabot had the stick in between his legs... that's a silly thing to do in OT. The dude took advantage and drew the penalty when he felt the stick.

Do I think it should've been double minors? Yes.

But I still think the starting point is Chabot's stick in between his legs. He doesn't do that... maybe the last 30 pages is full of Canadians that 'don't care about this tourney' posting all star rosters instead of Finn's celebrating.lol

Note: not a shot at all at the awesome Canuck posters who were here all tourney! Just the drop in NHL fans who like to let everyone know they are better than them!

The 'Finns haven't won a best on best' argument is also pretty funny to read.. there hasn't been one since they peaked (and they've peaked). I'm not saying they would win but at least let them try it out before declaring them busts.

 

[llwyd]

Do I think it should've been double minors? Yes.

Yep, absolutely - that would have been the right decision.

 

[Mestaruus]

I also rank this one the highest, given how insane odds Finland managed to beat.

The most memorable for me personally, however, was 2011. I am old enough that I was there to witness 1995 and did celebrate it, but I was still a bit too young then to really understand how much it meant - after all the close calls from the previous two decades or so. But 2011... I had been there personally to witness all the bitter disappointments from the previous decade and a half, as had most of my age cohort, late GenXers/early Millennials. So, when that second title finally came...

After 1995, the country had been like a pressure cooker building up steam in anticipation of the 2nd title - and then the lid blew off. The entire country just went - absolutely - nuts for a couple of days. Sure, we've had a bunch of other parties since then, but I don't think they've quite reached that level. It was just total revelry.

2011 was very important in cutting that no gold streak. Perhaps that win even affected on stuff like 2014 U20 gold, as in giving the players confidence that we can win championships. I'm talking about the team that featured Karri Kivi, Lindell, Teräväinen, Mäenalanen and Ristolainen. So 2011 might have given us a good momentum that lead to more and more championships. 2016 U20 gold was the next really big one.

 

[Zippgunn]

This is an excellent point. Both of Björninen's teammates were above him. If he takes a dive there and it doesn't draw a penalty, he risks giving Chabot a breakaway.

He didn't dive, he embellished. It was a trip for sure but Bjornimen sold it hard and when he thought Chabot might get by him and not get called he reached out and grabbed Chabot's leg. A bit much IMHO.

 

[FiLe]

He didn't dive, he embellished.

Um... aren't these two the same thing?

Edit: Nevermind. Should have looked into the IIHF rulebook from the get-go instead of Wikipedia:

64.1:
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Note: "Diving" is the action of a Player trying to draw a penalty against an opponent while "embellishment" means that the victim makes the impression of a foul look “bigger” than it really is, even though a foul has been committed.

 

[Fastpace]

The end of the game said 4-3 Finland, if you are from Finland of course they are the best team in the world for you. Congrads ! But the the rest of the world Finns happens to be the very best second team of the world, no one knows for definate what the outcome would have been without those controvercial calls. Where is Canada in all this, they did not win and they loss on controvercial calls, they are certainly not World champions and they are certainly not second best since they have lost on controvercial calls. Celebrate all you want, but IHF does not have a clear championship winner !

 

[Snowsii]

The end of the game said 4-3 Finland, if you are from Finland of course they are the best team in the world for you. Congrads ! But the the rest of the world Finns happens to be the very best second team of the world, no one knows for definate what the outcome would have been without those controvercial calls. Where is Canada in all this, they did not win and they loss on controvercial calls, they are certainly not World champions and they are certainly not second best since they have lost on controvercial calls. Celebrate all you want, but IHF does not have a clear championship winner !

Canada was getting some calls in their favor.. that crosscheck should have been called (right before 3-2 equaliser)

 

[AKQJ]

Refereeing can be an issue, but it takes absolutely nothing away from Finlands victory. I respect Claude Julien and his sayings after the Final. This whining days after the game is sick.

 

[mattihp]

The end of the game said 4-3 Finland, if you are from Finland of course they are the best team in the world for you. Congrads ! But the the rest of the world Finns happens to be the very best second team of the world, no one knows for definate what the outcome would have been without those controvercial calls. Where is Canada in all this, they did not win and they loss on controvercial calls, they are certainly not World champions and they are certainly not second best since they have lost on controvercial calls. Celebrate all you want, but IHF does not have a clear championship winner !

Canada is not the rest of the world.

 

[ilvins]

Refereeing can be an issue, but it takes absolutely nothing away from Finlands victory. I respect Claude Julien and his sayings after the Final. This whining days after the game is sick.

This victory is tainted. This was the worst officiated IIHF championship final in the last decade for sure. Victory was handed to Finnland by two grand mistakes by referees. Maybe Finnland could have won without help of referees, but now we will never know. Canada was better team in the final, and was robbed.

 

[Snowsii]

This victory is tainted. This was the worst officiated IIHF championship final in the last decade for sure. Victory was handed to Finnland by two grand mistakes by referees. Maybe Finnland could have won without help of referees, but now we will never know. Canada was better team in the final, and was robbed.

Not even close.. check 2014

 

[J bo Jeans]

Not even close.. check 2014

Maybe point us towards what exactly your referencing

 

[MBrodeur]

This victory is tainted. This was the worst officiated IIHF championship final in the last decade for sure. Victory was handed to Finnland by two grand mistakes by referees. Maybe Finnland could have won without help of referees, but now we will never know. Canada was better team in the final, and was robbed.

People are only focusing on these two penalties because Finland capitalised on them by scoring. At the end the referees didn't benefit one team over the other and in the third Canada could've had more penalties than they did.

Nobody's whining about Canada's second goal because Finland won.

It's ridicolous how biased the human memory is.

 

[AKQJ]

This victory is tainted. This was the worst officiated IIHF championship final in the last decade for sure. Victory was handed to Finnland by two grand mistakes by referees. Maybe Finnland could have won without help of referees, but now we will never know. Canada was better team in the final, and was robbed.

No it was not. There have been far worse. Refs made terrible mistakes in benefit of Canada too... If they would have been as biased as You tell, they would have called off the 2nd goal of Canada and there would never ever been this OT discussion, where Chabot was stupid enough to use his stick the way he did. Finland is 2022 Champion and they deserve it!

 

[ilvins]

Not even close.. check 2014

That was pretty brutal also, agreed. But because of the overtime call, I have to go with 2022.

 

[FinPanda]

That was pretty brutal also, agreed. But because of the overtime call, I have to go with 2022.

The OT call was correct though