Goaltending

[542365]

He has a good point about the soft defense. The Polak trade has made it even softer. (Not saying it was a bad trade, but we lost our only big physical Dman). There is a school of thought, prevalent on this board, that suggests that if all your defensemen can move the puck quickly and effectively, you don't need physicality. While you might get away with this style, even excel with it, during the regular season, it will fail in the playoffs. Mark my words, our soft defence will be exposed and exploited by the west coast teams during the playoffs, unless it's addressed by the trade deadline.

Look at the Hawks defensive core. They are no more physical, no more talented than our defensive core. Now look at their forward group. Certainly more talented, but less physical than our forward group. They actually shipped out their most physical player. It's not all on the defense to bring the physical game, and the physical game is not nearly as important as it used to be. You have to be able to move the puck. Gunnar can, Polak couldn't. It's a very smart move.

 

[JustOneB4IDie]

Regular season? Blues are fine but come playoff time? Be prepared with this tandem of Elliott and Allen to disappoint and let down the loyal fan base once again in year 48 of the franchise.

 

[Hooliganx3]

Regular season? Blues are fine but come playoff time? Be prepared with this tandem of Elliott and Allen to disappoint and let down the loyal fan base once again in year 48 of the franchise.

Elliott did fine we just didn't score.

 

[Note Worthy]

Regular season? Blues are fine but come playoff time? Be prepared with this tandem of Elliott and Allen to disappoint and let down the loyal fan base once again in year 48 of the franchise.

2.37 and 1.90 were Elliott's GAA in the playoffs both years he played.

Looks fine to me. The team needs to score.

 

[Alklha]

I've no issues at all with Elliott as starter in the playoffs, and I highly doubt anyone in the locker room does either. He has more than earned his spot.

 

[Dbrownss]

2.37 and 1.90 were Elliott's GAA in the playoffs both years he played.

Looks fine to me. The team needs to score.

It's an impossible concept for people to get it seems(reference to main board).

 

[Multimoodia]

Regular season? Blues are fine but come playoff time? Be prepared with this tandem of Elliott and Allen to disappoint and let down the loyal fan base once again in year 48 of the franchise.

Possibly, but I think it's someone else's turn this year.
We should start a poll for this really:
"Which aspect of the Blues will be the cause of failure and disappointment this year?"
Bonus points for picking the player most at fault/most blamed/biggest scapegoat

 

[BlueDream]

I do view Elliott as one of the hardest working players in the NHL.

Would love it to see Elliott win a cup as a giant FU to the league.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Possibly, but I think it's someone else's turn this year.
We should start a poll for this really:
"Which aspect of the Blues will be the cause of failure and disappointment this year?"
Bonus points for picking the player most at fault/most blamed/biggest scapegoat

I think there has to be a way that we can blame it on Hitchcock's fitness level. I'm working on the train of logic here, but that's my vote.

 

[gumption]

find it kinda hard to believe that elliott is being compared to goalies such as price, quick, fleury, etc on the main boards.. yikes.

 

[fullbluemoon]

I think there has to be a way that we can blame it on Hitchcock's fitness level. I'm working on the train of logic here, but that's my vote.

Hitchcock loses control of the team in practice because the players skate just out of his reach whilst saying "nananabooboo"

 

[Captain Creampuff]

I do view Elliott as one of the hardest working players in the NHL.

Would love it to see Elliott win a cup as a giant FU to the league.

But he would still suck and would have just gotten carried by the team in front of him. Even if he somehow won the Smythe too.

 

[medkit]

I think there has to be a way that we can blame it on Hitchcock's fitness level. I'm working on the train of logic here, but that's my vote.

Round one, game 7: Gets in fight with Roy, loses, team is sad and caves

 

[Multimoodia]

I think there has to be a way that we can blame it on Hitchcock's fitness level. I'm working on the train of logic here, but that's my vote.

I'm thinking something like the plot from Major League II. With Hitch playing the part of Lou Brown.

Ott and Jackman become player-coaches after Brad Shaw's debilitating breakdown where he finally embraces his long-lost alter-ego: Moe Howard. The unfortunate string of eye-pokes is enough to land Steen on the LTIR with a concussion, Mueller the same, Oshie breaks an ankle getting away, etc. etc.

It's a tale of woe, but then they all are in St. Louis.


Of course this all is moot if the locker-painting amnesia thing happens which I'm most certainly not ruling out as long as the Blues call St. Louis home.

 

[simon IC]

Look at the Hawks defensive core. They are no more physical, no more talented than our defensive core. Now look at their forward group. Certainly more talented, but less physical than our forward group. They actually shipped out their most physical player. It's not all on the defense to bring the physical game, and the physical game is not nearly as important as it used to be. You have to be able to move the puck. Gunnar can, Polak couldn't. It's a very smart move.

I am not saying the trade was not smart. I am not saying it is solely on the D to provide physicality. I am not suggesting our forwards are not physical. I am saying that not one of our "9 NHL ready defenders" scare anybody. ( Please nobody try to make a case for Jackman!) We need a 6'4" 235 lb crease clearer, he dooesn't even has to be fast, his only prerequisite is a good first outlet pass. Otherwise, come April, our crease will be invaded and our goaltenders violated with impunity. As for the "physicality is not that important" argument, I am sure the services of Willie Mitchell and Matt Greene did not hinder the success of the LA Kings.

 

[Dbrownss]

After reading the blues trainer's Q&A, I think we'll see our existing defenders starting to get stronger. Also Cole could be that "crease clearer" that can actually pass the puck.

It's been asked what pie doesn't have that doughty and Keith have, to me it's a mean streak and taking a run at someone when the opportunity presents itself. IMO those are the worst, defenders that don't normally play physical that take a run at you, as you don't expect the hit.

 

[JustOneB4IDie]

Possibly, but I think it's someone else's turn this year.
We should start a poll for this really:
"Which aspect of the Blues will be the cause of failure and disappointment this year?"
Bonus points for picking the player most at fault/most blamed/biggest scapegoat

I like it Multimoodia, I'll 2nd the motion, since this the Blues after all, it's always something or someone who is the reason for another failure.

 

[STL fan in MN]

I don’t have much of any concern regarding Elliott or Allen during the regular season. Neither is elite (Allen’s unproven) but they should be serviceable. My concern comes playoff time. I believe they certainly could be good enough to take this team to the Cup but they certainly don’t inspire confidence in me like some of the elite goalies in the league would. Goaltending seems to be so much more important in the playoffs when the scoring dries up a little due to the clutching and grabbing not being called nearly as strickly (due to the apparent unwritten rule that you pretty much have to murder a guy in the playoffs to get a call of holding, hooking, interference, etc.). My concern is that the Blues are built for the regular season and not for the playoffs.

I really like Elliott and think he can be good but I think we need to keep in mind that although he has good numbers, on average, he usually didn’t face the toughest competition. Ie. If the Blues had a back to back with Chicago and Columbus, Halak likely would’ve faced Chicago while Elliott likely would’ve face Columbus. It’s an unknown how Elliott will do playing against the elite teams more than he has in the past.

Allen had a nice stretch for the Blues 2 seasons ago and was AHL goalie of the year last season but he’s still relatively unproven. He has good but not great skills IMO. Again, I really like the guy from a personality standpoint, and will be rooting for both he and Elliott but being honest, I have my concerns about both.

Like others, I also think the Blues are in trouble if one of Elliott/Allen gets hurt as it’s not like Binnington should be counted on to play in the NHL yet – he has only 1 game of AHL experience. That said, finding a serviceable guy as a stop gap option shouldn’t be all too hard. Guys like Brodeur, Thomas, Bryzgalov, Vokun, Khabibulin, Giguere, etc. could still possibly be unsigned midway through the season and could possibly be signed if the Blues really needed to sign a guy in the event one of Elliott/Allen went down with a long-term injury.

 

[Robb_K]

finding a serviceable guy as a stop gap option shouldn’t be all too hard. Guys like Brodeur, Thomas, Bryzgalov, Vokun, Khabibulin, Giguere, etc. could still possibly be unsigned midway through the season and could possibly be signed if the Blues really needed to sign a guy in the event one of Elliott/Allen went down with a long-term injury.

I agree with this. If an injury occurs, they'll sign a serviceable backup.

I really hope that Allen plays well this season, and develops into a very good NHL starter.

 

[542365]

I am not saying the trade was not smart. I am not saying it is solely on the D to provide physicality. I am not suggesting our forwards are not physical. I am saying that not one of our "9 NHL ready defenders" scare anybody. ( Please nobody try to make a case for Jackman!) We need a 6'4" 235 lb crease clearer, he dooesn't even has to be fast, his only prerequisite is a good first outlet pass. Otherwise, come April, our crease will be invaded and our goaltenders violated with impunity. As for the "physicality is not that important" argument, I am sure the services of Willie Mitchell and Matt Greene did not hinder the success of the LA Kings.

And my original point is who on Chicago fits that bill? Certainly not Keith, Leddy, Oduya, or Hammer. Absolutely no case to be made for any of those guys. Seabrook? Again, not really. He doesn't scare anyone. He's a cheap shotter, and a big body, but he's still a puck mover. Rosival? I mean....really? They had a guy like that in Brookbank(probably spelled that wrong) and bought him out(although he's more goon than hockey player). Chicago has no problem winning in the regular season or post season with their defensive core. I never said it wouldn't be helpful to have some physicality on the back end, just that it's not as important as others make it seem. We have physical forwards, and physicality is being replaced by speed and skill. The key to LA's Cups is not Mitchell or Greene. It's Gaborik, Carter, Kopitar, Toffoli, Doughty etc. Chicago, Pittsburgh, Detroit, teams combining for 4 of the last 7 Cup wins, did not have huge defensive cores that dominated teams. They had some stronger guys(Orpik, Gill, Sopel, Seabrook, Lilja), but no huge crease clearers that some fans fantasize about. What they did have in common: Lidstrom, Kronwall, Rafalski; Keith, Leddy, Seabrook; Letang, Goligoski, Gonchar; guys that can move the puck. Pietrangelo, JBo, Shattenkirk ranks right up there with those teams with the exception of Detroit. I feel like we're worrying about something that's not an issue. We had a really strong guy that couldn't move the puck, and that clearly didn't work so we traded him for someone that can.

 

[Note Worthy]

And my original point is who on Chicago fits that bill? Certainly not Keith, Leddy, Oduya, or Hammer. Absolutely no case to be made for any of those guys. Seabrook? Again, not really. He doesn't scare anyone. He's a cheap shotter, and a big body, but he's still a puck mover. Rosival? I mean....really? They had a guy like that in Brookbank(probably spelled that wrong) and bought him out(although he's more goon than hockey player). Chicago has no problem winning in the regular season or post season with their defensive core. I never said it wouldn't be helpful to have some physicality on the back end, just that it's not as important as others make it seem. We have physical forwards, and physicality is being replaced by speed and skill. The key to LA's Cups is not Mitchell or Greene. It's Gaborik, Carter, Kopitar, Toffoli, Doughty etc. Chicago, Pittsburgh, Detroit, teams combining for 4 of the last 7 Cup wins, did not have huge defensive cores that dominated teams. They had some stronger guys(Orpik, Gill, Sopel, Seabrook, Lilja), but no huge crease clearers that some fans fantasize about. What they did have in common: Lidstrom, Kronwall, Rafalski; Keith, Leddy, Seabrook; Letang, Goligoski, Gonchar; guys that can move the puck. Pietrangelo, JBo, Shattenkirk ranks right up there with those teams with the exception of Detroit. I feel like we're worrying about something that's not an issue. We had a really strong guy that couldn't move the puck, and that clearly didn't work so we traded him for someone that can.

I agree. We've tried the "be more physical than them" game before.

And we lost.

 

[HighNote]

That physical defenseman is nice to have, but I don't think it's too necessary. If Cole fills that role, then I think are defense is in perfect position. I think that Gunnarsson will work well with Shattenkirk. Jackman and Cole can provide the grittiness and physicality that everyone thinks we need so dearly. That's a pretty solid defensive group.

If we didn't have a fairly physical forward group, then I'd be a little worried, but it's nothing game-changing. We've got some big bodies, like Backes, Oshie, Berglund, Reaves, Lapierre, Paajarvi and Jaskin are coming up, and then you've got Lehtera who's a big boy.

 

[Multimoodia]

Cole stepping up the physicality would really really be a boon for the Blues. Like the level before he ran over Abdelkader and then was summarily suspended for it.

In fact, if he could come anywhere near Polak's level of physical play the Blues would have an enormous net gain since Cole is less inept with the puck and his strength is not that far off of Polak's. He's built like less of a fridge and is more pretty muscle (that's what an ex-girlfriend used to tell me anyway) but the strength is still there.

Dunno if it's possible, but here's hoping anyway.

 

[Multimoodia]

I agree. We've tried the "be more physical than them" game before.

And we lost.

Blues just don't know how to cheap shot well enough. Going to need someone to show them how to knock out the other team's most important player.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

And my original point is who on Chicago fits that bill? Certainly not Keith, Leddy, Oduya, or Hammer. Absolutely no case to be made for any of those guys. Seabrook? Again, not really. He doesn't scare anyone. He's a cheap shotter, and a big body, but he's still a puck mover. Rosival? I mean....really? They had a guy like that in Brookbank(probably spelled that wrong) and bought him out(although he's more goon than hockey player). Chicago has no problem winning in the regular season or post season with their defensive core. I never said it wouldn't be helpful to have some physicality on the back end, just that it's not as important as others make it seem. We have physical forwards, and physicality is being replaced by speed and skill. The key to LA's Cups is not Mitchell or Greene. It's Gaborik, Carter, Kopitar, Toffoli, Doughty etc. Chicago, Pittsburgh, Detroit, teams combining for 4 of the last 7 Cup wins, did not have huge defensive cores that dominated teams. They had some stronger guys(Orpik, Gill, Sopel, Seabrook, Lilja), but no huge crease clearers that some fans fantasize about. What they did have in common: Lidstrom, Kronwall, Rafalski; Keith, Leddy, Seabrook; Letang, Goligoski, Gonchar; guys that can move the puck. Pietrangelo, JBo, Shattenkirk ranks right up there with those teams with the exception of Detroit. I feel like we're worrying about something that's not an issue. We had a really strong guy that couldn't move the puck, and that clearly didn't work so we traded him for someone that can.

You hit the nail on the head Matty. The obsession with toughness is getting maddening around here. If you look at all the recent cup winners, there's one common them with the defense and it isn't toughness. The ability to quickly transition is critical. We've gotten better at that.