Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IV

[guyzeur]

I actually find the part about the gift baskets (AN OVEN MAT?!?!) to be more telling than anything else he said.

What a low rent organization.

An oven mat is such an underrated gift.

 

[Cosmix]

We aren’t trading for either of those guys, no drugs needed, just common sense. We’d have to trade key pieces from our stable of talent and gut the rebuild! Hehe

Eichel would be a costly trade in terms of assets to be given. Hamilton would only be a costly salary as I believe he is a UFA.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Eichel would be a costly trade in terms of assets to be given. Hamilton would only be a costly salary as I believe he is a UFA.

Hams would be a good pick up. If we can afford him in terms of the long term financial vision, and he wants to come here; I’m all in

 

[Cosmix]

I'm thinking he's gonna want to make somewhat of a splash, which scares me, but is also equally exciting

Can't see Eichel, but a known name for the top 6 and/or top 4

I'm concerned with any trades made by Dorion. A top 6 player can mean a second line player, and a second line player who is an ageing vet in decline that could turn out to be a 3rd or 4th liner here. No confidence in this GM. We have enough second line players and not enough top line #1 type players.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I'm concerned with any trades made by Dorion. A top 6 player can mean a second line player, and a second line player who is an ageing vet in decline that could turn out to be a 3rd or 4th liner here. No confidence in this GM. We have enough second line players and not enough top line #1 type players.

He’s made some great trades from the tear down onwards. I don’t see why there is so much worry.

Stone is the only lukewarm deal of the big ones at this point, a second for Stepan failed to pan out, and Murray showed some real promise after the goalie coach change along with his return from injury.

Looking at the rebuild as a whole, PD’s trades have been a net positive for this team by a long shot, and we have replaced outgoing picks with more than enough incoming picks to compensate.

 

[Sweatred]

Guys, send me the drugs you’re taking to convince yourselves the Sens will pay Dougie Hamilton and a Jack Eichel to play in Ottawa. NEED

I think we would pay that type of money for one of those guys … I just don’t think there is anyway those guys chose to play in Ottawa when 4-5 other markets will offer the same money.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

An oven mat is such an underrated gift.

Agreed. I bet it was a French Silpat... super luxurious.

 

[swiftwin]

I'm concerned with any trades made by Dorion. A top 6 player can mean a second line player, and a second line player who is an ageing vet in decline that could turn out to be a 3rd or 4th liner here. No confidence in this GM. We have enough second line players and not enough top line #1 type players.

Here are some "2nd line players" that Dorion has acquired since the rebuild started:

Connor Brown
Tyner Ennis
Vlad Namestnikov
Anthony Duclair
Evgeni Dadonov
Chris Tierney
Derek Stepan
Mikkel Boedker

Of that list, I would say that only Stepan and Boedker were flops. All the other players were good in their time here or ended up getting us a decent return.

Not sure why you have so little confidence when history shows that he's been quite successful.

 

[Micklebot]

Here are some "2nd line players" that Dorion has acquired since the rebuild started:

Connor Brown
Tyner Ennis
Vlad Namestnikov
Anthony Duclair
Evgeni Dadonov
Chris Tierney
Derek Stepan
Mikkel Boedker

Of that list, I would say that only Stepan and Boedker were flops. All the other players were good in their time here or ended up getting us a decent return.

Not sure why you have so little confidence when history shows that he's been quite successful.

Well so far Dadonov has been a flop, Boedker actually paced better in pts his first year here, despite getting less in terms of opportunity particularly wrt PP time. Still time to bounce back I guess.

Namestnikov was pretty meh, again paced worse than Boedker who you called a flop, not sure I'd call downgrading a 4th for a couple months of him a decent return, mostly just inconsequential.

So adding those two were flipping a coin at 50/50

 

[Hale The Villain]

Here are some "2nd line players" that Dorion has acquired since the rebuild started:

Connor Brown
Tyner Ennis
Vlad Namestnikov
Anthony Duclair
Evgeni Dadonov
Chris Tierney
Derek Stepan
Mikkel Boedker

Of that list, I would say that only Stepan and Boedker were flops. All the other players were good in their time here or ended up getting us a decent return.

Not sure why you have so little confidence when history shows that he's been quite successful.

The only actual 2nd line quality players you listed are Brown and Duclair.

Ennis, Namestnikov, Dadonov and Tierney aren't 2nd line quality players, but aren't terrible either.

Stepan and Boedker were terrible. Coincidentally Dorion paid the most for them out of all the players you listed

 

[BankStreetParade]

The only actual 2nd line quality players you listed are Brown and Duclair.

Ennis, Namestnikov, Dadonov and Tierney aren't 2nd line quality players, but aren't terrible either.

Stepan and Boedker were terrible. Coincidentally Dorion paid the most for them out of all the players you listed

They've all played top 6 minutes though. So, they might not be 2nd line players on a contending team but they fulfilled the role here.

Of that list, Brown, Duclair and Tierney all had career years in Ottawa. Dadonov has a proven track record of 3 straight 25+ goal years prior to this past season with Ottawa - so yes, he most certainly is a 2nd line quality player. Ennis had his best year of production in 2019-20 since 2014-15 and Namestnikov was on pace for the 2nd best year of production in his career.

Stepan and Boedker can go to hell.

Context is important. No, they are not traditional top 6 names but they still played that role here and were moved along with decent compensation coming back in most cases. Tierney might bring something in return at some point or he might be the sacrificial lamb in the expansion draft. Brown has blossomed into an elite 2-way winger and brings a ton of value to this team.

 

[Liver King]

Here are some "2nd line players" that Dorion has acquired since the rebuild started:

Connor Brown
Tyner Ennis
Vlad Namestnikov
Anthony Duclair
Evgeni Dadonov
Chris Tierney
Derek Stepan
Mikkel Boedker

Of that list, I would say that only Stepan and Boedker were flops. All the other players were good in their time here or ended up getting us a decent return.

Not sure why you have so little confidence when history shows that he's been quite successful.

I have a different definition of what successful is

These are coin flips with the worst players costing the most assets from Dorion, just meh in general

Big trades/signings make me nervous in general though, Dorion just amplifies that for me personally

Also sounds like he's going for 'high quality' players this summer so we'll find out what that means and costs

 

[Hale The Villain]

They've all played top 6 minutes though. So, they might not be 2nd line players on a contending team but they fulfilled the role here.

I could play a second line role for the Sens if they want, but that doesn't mean I'm a 2nd line quality player or worth playing top 6 minutes.

None of those players besides Brown and Duclair performed at a top 6 level during their time here.

Of that list, Brown, Duclair and Tierney all had career years in Ottawa. Dadonov has a proven track record of 3 straight 25+ goal years prior to this past season with Ottawa - so yes, he most certainly is a 2nd line quality player. Ennis had his best year of production in 2019-20 since 2014-15 and Namestnikov was on pace for the 2nd best year of production in his career.

Dadonov has a proven track record playing beside Barkov and Huberdeau. Away from them he has 20 points in 55 games, which is absolutely not top 6 quality.

Context is important. No, they are not traditional top 6 names but they still played that role here and were moved along with decent compensation coming back in most cases. Tierney might bring something in return at some point or he might be the sacrificial lamb in the expansion draft. Brown has blossomed into an elite 2-way winger and brings a ton of value to this team.

Other than Brown, we have nothing to show for the rest of the list of players.

Duclair was good but was let go for some reason
Namestnikov only returned a 4th, which is what he cost to acquire
Ennis returned a 5th
Dadonov and Tierney cost 9-10M and probably have negative value
Stepan and Boedker returned nothing

Decent compensation is not the word I would use to describe what those players brought back after getting far more opportunity with the Sens than they would have got elsewhere.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

You have an advantage as a rebuilding low quality team to play players in roles above where they ought to be, which most of those guys on that list grabbed and thrived in, but most of those guys aren't going to be contributing like they did here if they were on a good team.

He did a decent job of filling some holes through the down years and credit where it's due, but that didn't seem to be Cosmix point about what they will need going forward and I don't think the list put forward would alleviate those concerns being mostly "spare part" stop gap type top 6 forwards.

 

[Liver King]

Does anybody have a good read on the Capuano situation

Just watched the newest episode of wally and methot and they were talking about it

Seems strange

 

[Ice-Tray]

I suspect that they want continuity on D coaching while Troy does a last year in Belleville.

They need all hands on deck this up coming year of development in both teams.

Next year I wouldn’t be surprised in Troy is brought up to replace Cap . At that time we’ll have the bulk of the big name kids in Ottawa where Troy will be important.

 

[Liver King]

I suspect that they want continuity on D coaching while Troy does a last year in Belleville.

They need all hands on deck this up coming year of development in both teams.

Next year I wouldn’t be surprised in Troy is brought up to replace Cap . At that time we’ll have the bulk of the big name kids in Ottawa where Troy will be important.

I was thinking maybe they were in trade talks

But either way I don't think Capuano is much of a loss

 

[Ice-Tray]

I was thinking maybe they were in trade talks

But either way I don't think Capuano is much of a loss

No but it’s a big year on D next year with the possibility of 3 new core kids arriving at different times and they may want to have the coach that has been part of the new system since the start instead of trying to teach a new coach in the off season.

He’s on contract and they probably feel he’s important.

 

[Cosmix]

Duclair and Brown were very good acquisitions. Unfortunately Dorion let Duclair go and signed Dudanov. That has not turned out well as Dadonov is age 32 and in decline, plays soft, and has no #1 skilled players to play with at this time, as he did in Florida. I preferred Duclair. I liked Ennis too as he added speed and hustle but he was not a second line player.

 

[Korpse]

Duclair and Brown were very good acquisitions. Unfortunately Dorion let Duclair go and signed Dudanov. That has not turned out well as Dadonov is age 32 and in decline, plays soft, and has no #1 skilled players to play with at this time, as he did in Florida. I preferred Duclair. I liked Ennis too as he added speed and hustle but he was not a second line player.

How you gonna call Dadonov soft when comparing him to Duclair. It hasn't been a good fit to this point but the guy is a battler and doesn't shy away from anything. He's not a bruiser by any means but does a lot of hard work, along the wall and below the goal line. Just pure nonsense in an attempt to put a player down.

 

[Bevans]

I suspect that they want continuity on D coaching while Troy does a last year in Belleville.

They need all hands on deck this up coming year of development in both teams.

Next year I wouldn’t be surprised in Troy is brought up to replace Cap . At that time we’ll have the bulk of the big name kids in Ottawa where Troy will be important.

I wouldn't be surprised if Dorion fears an eventual Mann coup.

 

[Sweatred]

I wouldn't be surprised if Dorion fears an eventual Mann coup.

I like Mann properly paid in the AHL. $500 G spent there is much wiser than $5 million on veteran presence or whatever. I’d gladly live with $1 million out of the player budget to secure elite amateur/developmental people.

 

[BondraTime]

I like Mann properly paid in the AHL. $500 G spent there is much wiser than $5 million on veteran presence or whatever. I’d gladly live with $1 million out of the player budget to secure elite amateur/developmental people.

Mann isn’t getting 500k in the AHL

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Mann isn’t getting 500k in the AHL

Source?

 

[Sweatred]

Mann isn’t getting 500k in the AHL

Its a concept for cleaving off up to a million off your NHL roster for a non cap team to overpay for good talent in the minors. That investment should provide $5-10 million of positive value easily justifying it.