Give GMJR a Grade (cumulative)

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Listen, I get that Winnik was a mistake. I get that the Despres deal was out of this world horrendous. I get that.

I also get that JR has shifted the trend from year after year of guys like Kobasew, Comrie, Pyatt, Gibbons, etc. in our top six to having Kessel, Hornqvist and Perron long-term.

The defense was going to be a disaster regardless. Orpik and Niskanen were on their way out. Martin as well. Yes, again, we ****ed up the Despres deal to an immeasurable amount. But, you can't fix 5 years worth of flaming dumpster fire that Shero left in one calendar year.

I just don't think people realize how poor a state Shero and Bylsma left this team. Last season was the aftershocks of Shero's tenure, and disgusting mismanagement.

I don't care who our GM is, he's not fixing a team with lengthy contracts to over the hill guys like Kunitz, Scuderi and Dupuis--along with expiring contracts and guys who were looking for big FA money (Orpik, Niskanen, Jokinen, Engelland). Then, you add in the fact that our top six has been a mess for pretty much the entirety of Sid and Geno's careers, along with a terrible bottom six... JR had a ****-ton of work.

JR hasn't been perfect, but for the first time in the past decade, our top six is finally fixed and it looks phenomenal. One step at a time. If we're still hurting for defense this time next season, then the story changes a bit. But as of right now, one calendar year's worth of work has been pretty good. The only thing keeping it from having been fantastic is the Despres trade.

 

[Penguinator]

What's important here is that JR + org are now doing the right things. I don't give a **** about the past even though the Després trade blew toad lickin' goats & the Winnik one had a really bad timing (ok it was before the team fell off a cliff but still).

All i care about is we're going upwards as of now.

But yeah... As far as cumulative goes... The 'pre' sure brings down the 'post-'.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

They won the cup 3 years after he was hired. I'd say Shero's hands were all over both the 2008 and 2009 teams.

Pens always had injury troubles under DB/Shero but they never finished worse than 5th seed since 2006. Under Shero they lost in the 1st round 3x. 2007 (Sid and Geno were still 19 & 20 years old). 2011 (Sid and Geno injured). 2012 (Flyers gong show series).

IDK why you hate Shero so much yet praise JR after he "lead" the Pens to their worst season since 2006. Sure it's only one year but everyone's praises here are based on ONE good trade. The Kessel trade does not make up for last season.

Shero was great till he won the Cup. Then he convinced themselves that they'd figured it out. "Sid and Geno will turn bad wingers into stars so just load up on D. Oh and that Bylsma guy is a really good coach! I'm gonna give him endless chances to coach this team."

It's also pretty funny that you rake JR over the coals for last season when he was a few months into trying to fix the mess Shero left the team in. Sorry if you don't want to admit it but JR has been a much better GM in the last year than Shero was in his last 5.

I don' blame him for injuries but I certainly blame him for dressing 5 Dmen while trying to make the playoffs, thanks to that awful Winnik deal.

A 2nd rounder for a solid 3rd liner having a good year isn't awful (might I remind you of Douglas Murray?). And they had to dress 5 Dmen because of the cap hell Shero left the team in and the LTIR rules.

 

[Riptide]

For a team that needs to win now. This summer has been straight A's.
Would give him an A+ if he was able to trade Scuds with his limited NTC.

This guy could've easily seen Sutter as a integral piece and locked him up. Same sort of deal with Martin and Erhoff. Same sort of deal with locking up FA's last summer to over 1yr deals.

Patience was needed and this summer has been the pay off for that patience.

Kessel was really great timing but he was on that like a dog on a bone and didn't pay through the teeth for it(no Maata or Pouliot). Fantastic job.

Same with Comeau. People ***** that Shero didn't have the same free cap space that Rutherford did... well this is why. JR didn't keep JJ/PM/BC/CE/etc and instead allowed all those players to walk.

Overall I'm happy with the job he's done. I could even handle him keeping Scuderi. Now if it just wasn't for that ****ing Despres trade...

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Shero's downfall was ultimately his own fault. He was stubborn to a negative degree, he was smug, arrogant, and thought he had everything figured out. He was unwilling to adapt and change, he refused to continue evolving as the years went on.

He screwed this team over, and himself in the process. "It worked once, it must be the only way to do it." He won a Cup with Patrick's core, and then proceeded to drive it into the ground and leave a flaming pile of wreckage for the next guy.

Good riddance.

 

[The Old Master]

And they had to dress 5 Dmen because of the cap hell Shero left the team in and the LTIR rules.

if they hadn't gave away fatty for nothing, they would of been good to go.

 

[Lionel Hutz]

I've agreed with all the roster moves to varying degrees, from meh to wow. That is with the exception of bringing back the reverend at all, let alone at the expense of Simon the great. I give that individual trade an F and a truly WTF moment.

Overall I give him an A. Team is in much better shape and headed in the right direction. There are a lot of good things to say about Shero, but his most admirable trait (loyalty) is a double edged sword. I'm glad that JR has been able to let people walk.

 

[HugoStiglitz]

If the Despres and Winnik trades are regarded as the worst moves then I'd say JR has been pretty stellar.

 

[Waffle Fries]

If the Despres and Winnik trades are regarded as the worst moves then I'd say JR has been pretty stellar.

I'm not sure what this means. This statement seems to imply that those trades aren't that bad. If it was just the Winnik trade, that's one thing. The Despres trade is one of the worst trades in recent history.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I'm not sure what this means. This statement seems to imply that those trades aren't that bad. If it was just the Winnik trade, that's one thing. The Despres trade is one of the worst trades in recent history.

Yep. The Winnik trade was an all-in with good intentions, just extremely bad judgement. It's not going to leave a lasting impression. It sucked, but it is what it is.

The Despres trade effectively ****ed our defense last season, and will continue to do so for a while. We traded a stud 1st/2nd pairing defenseman with all the attributes we're sorely lacking for a 31 year old never-was, borderline AHL talent.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I'm not sure what this means. This statement seems to imply that those trades aren't that bad. If it was just the Winnik trade, that's one thing. The Despres trade is one of the worst trades in recent history.

No it doesn't.

It means, if that's the worst of it, JR. actually did a good job.

The Pens are about more than the bad trades. Fixations by many here.

There is light at the end of the tunnel and it doesn't mean you are dead.

You are allowed to walk through/into it. Your dark souls could use a little light.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Yeah, Despres isn't Bobby Orr, get over it, over-dramatic, worried about your obsession, Lovejoy's not that bad, etc.

I think that about covers all the dumb bases.

 

[888 98 twins]

If the Despres-Lovejoy trade never happened, we'd probably still have Scott Harrington in our system.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

With all the meddling that goes on behind his back, I give him a B for sorting out the biggest issue this team has had since Crosby was drafted and Palffy fell apart and Hossa took off after the playoffs....

We finally will see a top 6 with top 6 talent all around.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

If the Despres-Lovejoy trade never happened, we'd probably still have Scott Harrington in our system.

Except a Hunter is very heavily involved in the Leafs moves this summer and he is incredibly familiar with Harrington, which is a guy he really coveted for the Leafs. Remember Hunter? London Knights? That sort of thing.

How do you not know this? Wait...nvm.

No offense to Harrington, but for me, he looked the least comfortable in the NHL, I never got why so many people were super high on him, but he seemed behind the play at times, his skating wasn't as impressive as I had hoped it would be, he did look for a game or two, but I liked Maatta more than him out of the Knights D-men this team has and I liked Despres and Dumoulin more than Harrington. Sad we end up with 2 out of the 4.

Also, all of us are mad some idiot forced JR to make that Despres/Lovejoy move, a move that JR doesn't even like and has been incredibly vocal about.

 

[Penguinator]

If the Despres-Lovejoy trade never happened, we'd probably still have Scott Harrington in our system.

Are you implying that Despres would have been included in the Kessel deal instead of Harrington?

 

[888 98 twins]

Are you implying that Despres would have been included in the Kessel deal instead of Harrington?

uh huh

 

[lastcupever75]

That's not the argument though. The argument was that Shero neglected scoring wings on the big roster, and he clearly didn't.



He was a much better GM than he's getting credit for here, to the point where he's being misrepresented. And I think a lot of it has to do with the shape of the forwards at the end of a rollback year compared to what we have now. People forget that we literally had more forward depth than we knew what to do with the year before.

Now he wouldn't even go after scoring wings if he had the extra cap space, apparently. Because he did that all the time.

agreed. he had his faults (DB, stall/toews) but won a cup and was in contention for another in 2012. who knows what could have been if we got the goaltending we saw last year during the "5 years he ran the team into the ground".
that was a big piece to the puzzle that went missing in the playoffs every year, at a moderate to high cost on the Cap.
I wouldnt be shocked to see him successful again with his new team

As far as JR. he's had a terrific off season. But it doesnt completely make up for some questionable moves in his 1st year.
let's hope it continues

 

[HugoStiglitz]

I'm not sure what this means. This statement seems to imply that those trades aren't that bad. If it was just the Winnik trade, that's one thing. The Despres trade is one of the worst trades in recent history.

It means if the two worst trades were trades that had no profound effect on the Penguins, we should consider ourselves lucky.

The Despres trade was not a good one, I agree, but one of the worst in recent history? Don't get me wrong, I liked Despres, but it wasn't like he was some rare dman that can't be replaced. Me thinks you value Despres a little too high.

 

[Waffle Fries]

It means if the two worst trades were trades that had no profound effect on the Penguins, we should consider ourselves lucky.

The Despres trade was not a good one, I agree, but one of the worst in recent history? Don't get me wrong, I liked Despres, but it wasn't like he was some rare dman that can't be replaced. Me thinks you value Despres a little too high.

The Despres did have a profound effect on the team last season and it will continue to for the next few seasons at least.

Your second paragraph is almost more off-base than your first. Despres is a rare defensemen. How many young, 6'4 215 lb dmen who are physical, skate extremely well and excell at moving the puck do you think there are in this league?

The rarity of his skill set is part of why the trade is so awful. Teams spend forever searching for guys like that, and we just threw him away. The real kicker is that he is EXACTLY what our current group of dmen is missing.

Despres' skill set aside, it is simply horrendous asset management to trade a 23 year old, cost controlled top-4, possibly top pairing dman, for a 31 year-old who is a worse hockey player in nearly every measurable way on a worse contract.

Can you name me five recent trades equal or worse? I'll help you out with Forsberg for Erat. Maybe the Hamilton trade, but even with how poor the return was at least they got something with slight value in return.


I like a lot of what Rutherford has done, but I strongly disagree with your metric of judging him.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

It means if the two worst trades were trades that had no profound effect on the Penguins, we should consider ourselves lucky.

The Despres trade was not a good one, I agree, but one of the worst in recent history? Don't get me wrong, I liked Despres, but it wasn't like he was some rare dman that can't be replaced. Me thinks you value Despres a little too high.

Despres was a rock-solid top pairing D-man on a team that only eventually fell to the ultimate Cup winners. At worst, he's a 23 year old, 6'4", 215lb defenseman who can skate like the wind, move the puck very well, and loves the physical aspect of the game. Not only did losing him **** with the defense down the stretch and in the playoffs, we're going to continue to feel the effects moving forward.

Yeah, losing Despres for a 31 year old never-was like Lovejoy has a very tangible and real effect on the Pens moving forward.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Despres was a rock-solid top pairing D-man on a team that only eventually fell to the ultimate Cup winners. At worst, he's a 23 year old, 6'4", 215lb defenseman who can skate like the wind, move the puck very well, and loves the physical aspect of the game. Not only did losing him **** with the defense down the stretch and in the playoffs, we're going to continue to feel the effects moving forward.

Yeah, losing Despres for a 31 year old never-was like Lovejoy has a very tangible and real effect on the Pens moving forward.

Internet high five for typing basically the same thing at the same time.

 

[HugoStiglitz]

Despres was a rock-solid top pairing D-man on a team that only eventually fell to the ultimate Cup winners. At worst, he's a 23 year old, 6'4", 215lb defenseman who can skate like the wind, move the puck very well, and loves the physical aspect of the game. Not only did losing him **** with the defense down the stretch and in the playoffs, we're going to continue to feel the effects moving forward.

Yeah, losing Despres for a 31 year old never-was like Lovejoy has a very tangible and real effect on the Pens moving forward.

Despres is very replaceable. It wasn't like we traded away Dougie Hamilton or and OEL.

EDIT: Let's also not get all dramatic by calling him a rock solid top pairing dman. He played the second pairing and while he performed well for ANA, if you really watched that series he was also quite out of place at times and responsible for a few goals against.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Internet high five for typing basically the same thing at the same time.

Haha. I just don't understand how people can downplay the Despres trade.

Yes, the level of love Despres gets around here is silly, but the dude is a legitimate top-4 defenseman at worst, top pairing guy at best. With the way our defense is in shambles, and likely will be for at least another year, yes... That trade was devastating.

I will never understand the "it wasn't that bad for us, stop overrating Despres" argument. It's just dumb.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Despres is very replaceable. It wasn't like we traded away Dougie Hamilton or and OEL.

EDIT: Let's also not get all dramatic by calling him a rock solid top pairing dman. He played the second pairing and while he performed well for ANA, if you really watched that series he was also quite out of place at times and responsible for a few goals against.

He played a ton of top pairing minutes, and he was "responsible" for maybe a goal or two against. As a 23 year old on an entirely new team/system, who was essentially in his first full NHL season after being Bylsma'd.

Add to that nobody from Anaheim had a single bad thing to say about him on or off the ice after the playoffs, I think it's pretty clear. He's a very good defenseman in the making, who fills a ton of needs for this team skillset-wise.

His future is bright, he'll only get better, and we ****ed up royally by dumping him for essentially nothing whatsoever. Lovejoy is and always has been barely a bottom pairing defenseman, with no room to grow, and who will likely be out of the league very soon.