Get the Mayflower moving vans ready, Baltimore isn’t a Major League town anymore

[sawchuk1971]

Get the Mayflower moving vans ready, Baltimore isn’t a Major League town anymore

It’s just a matter of time before the Orioles ship out as the Colts did decades ago

deadspin.com

Coming into this season, the O’s were valued at $1.3 billion and had operating income of $83 million.

The reason the O’s survive is because of national TV money. Starting this season, each team gets roughly $100 million before selling a single ticket.

Still, it’s not the cure-all, because most of the bottom-feeding franchises pocket the loot and don’t spend it on talent. So, really, what’s the point?

Here is why it truly is a possibility that Baltimore could wind up MLB team-less. The O’s lease with Maryland Stadium Authority for the state-owned ballpark (aka Camden Yards) expires at the end of next year. There have been negotiations, but no extensions. Hence why the rumors about an O’s exit have persisted.

The O’s rank dead last in payroll in MLB. Coming into the 2022 season, the payroll was about $24 million. By comparison, the Los Angeles Dodgers have the biggest payroll at $234 million.

That’s an incredible achievement. Baseball has had unreal stability.

Camden Yards is a beautiful ballpark. In fact, my favorite of the current 30 MLB stadiums. There isn’t a bad seat in the place. It’s small and intimate.

But nobody goes anymore because the team isn’t any good. In 2021, they averaged just 10,000 fans and a total of 793,000 attended games there. It ranked 26th.

If MLB were really honest with itself, it would lop off at least four teams or maybe even six and get back to 24 teams, not 30.

Easily, the league could get rid of Miami, Oakland, Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh, Cleveland and, yes, Baltimore.

Click to read more...

 

[StreetHawk]

Yet with all the mlb is considering expansion.

Unless they decide to moving a couple of teams like Oak and TB due to stadium situations.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

They way it's presented by some there are more teams in danger of moving than there are actual cities that are capable to receive the teams.

Las Vegas and Nashville and Charlotte don't have any 30,000 + seat stadiums nor are there any actual plans to build them.

Montreal has actually presented somewhat of a plan for a stadium but it's far from a sure thing.

 

[WeaponOfChoice]

They way it's presented by some there are more teams in danger of moving than there are actual cities that are capable to receive the teams.

Las Vegas and Nashville and Charlotte don't have any 30,000 + seat stadiums nor are there any actual plans to build them.

Montreal has actually presented somewhat of a plan for a stadium but it's far from a sure thing.

Vancouver?

 

[StreetHawk]

Vancouver?

No. I don’t see it. Location of the ballpark is key. Barring it getting the whitecaps site that they originally wanted by the waterfront I don’t see a good location that is near our rapid transit line. And land prices are out of this world.

A chevron gas station just before Stanley Park sold for like $70 mill cad. And a ballpark is multiple times larger. Talking a good $500 mill for land plus CAD.

 

[Headshot77]

Bull. They have Camden Yards, in the moden day an MLB team can exist for decades in irrelevant profitability as long as they have a beautiful stadium and that sweet revenue sharing money. The O's will extend their lease and hang out with the Pirates in the perpetual basement.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

A garbage article from Deadspin? Shocker.

Place is a shell of what it once was.

 

[sawchuk1971]

They way it's presented by some there are more teams in danger of moving than there are actual cities that are capable to receive the teams.

Las Vegas and Nashville and Charlotte don't have any 30,000 + seat stadiums nor are there any actual plans to build them.

Montreal has actually presented somewhat of a plan for a stadium but it's far from a sure thing.

i know 20 year ago there was talk about contracting some teams...

 

[Rich Nixon]

A garbage article from Deadspin? Shocker.

Place is a shell of what it once was.

It's upsetting that there is still a publication with that name and logo, while the actual publication still exists elsewhere with a new name and logo.

 

[sh724]

Bull. They have Camden Yards, in the moden day an MLB team can exist for decades in irrelevant profitability as long as they have a beautiful stadium and that sweet revenue sharing money. The O's will extend their lease and hang out with the Pirates in the perpetual basement.

They might extend their lease but this is ignoring the recent lawsuit that states the son of the current owner wants to move the team to Nashville

 

[Djp]

They way it's presented by some there are more teams in danger of moving than there are actual cities that are capable to receive the teams.

Las Vegas and Nashville and Charlotte don't have any 30,000 + seat stadiums nor are there any actual plans to build them.

Montreal has actually presented somewhat of a plan for a stadium but it's far from a sure thing.

the best are in cities without much pro sport competition.

Louisville, Austin, Richmond/Norfolk, Omaha would be good candidates

Nashville can’t support baseball. It has soccer, football, and hockey.

Buffalo being near Toronto has the population to support baseball. It’s stadium was designed by the crew that built Camden. It’s designed to have an oper deck added. It’s now 30+ years old.

my gut thinks in the new stadium for the Bills they design it to also be used fir soccer and possibly get a MLS soccer team. Thus will take away any baseball hope.

other cities who could support baseball…

Vancouver
Montreal
Salt Lake City
Portland
a second Toronto team
Memphis
teams in Mexico

the issue in Oakland is the stadium issue. They build one near san Jose the team will be fine.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

They might extend their lease but this is ignoring the recent lawsuit that states the son of the current owner wants to move the team to Nashville

the Orioles are like SSE in the way neither the Spurs nor the Orioles are leaving their respected markets, remember, the Orioles were plan B to the Cardinals in St. Louis

 

[IU Hawks fan]

the best are in cities without much pro sport competition.

Louisville, Austin, Richmond/Norfolk, Omaha would be good candidates

Nashville can’t support baseball. It has soccer, football, and hockey.

Buffalo being near Toronto has the population to support baseball. It’s stadium was designed by the crew that built Camden. It’s designed to have an oper deck added. It’s now 30+ years old.

my gut thinks in the new stadium for the Bills they design it to also be used fir soccer and possibly get a MLS soccer team. Thus will take away any baseball hope.

other cities who could support baseball…

Vancouver
Montreal
Salt Lake City
Portland
a second Toronto team
Memphis
teams in Mexico

the issue in Oakland is the stadium issue. They build one near san Jose the team will be fine.

You think Omaha, the 72nd ranked DMA, could support MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL!?!

I guess Des Moines, Spokane, and Tucson should be in the running too...

 

[Cynicaps]

You think Omaha, the 72nd ranked DMA, could support MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL!?!

I know Omaha punches above its weight as a city due to the wealth and that heading east-west there isn't much between Chicago and Denver (all apologies to Kansas City), but the market is just too small even with Lincoln's Frankenstein of a DMA so close to it.

I also find the choice of Memphis and a second Toronto team over anywhere in North Carolina, a market where for much of it MLB is invisible, to be laughable.

 

[OG6ix]

Montreal will and should get a team. Baseball history in Montreal is so rich.

 

[Cynicaps]

Montreal will and should get a team. Baseball history in Montreal is so rich.

Is it? Yes, the Expos had a cool logo but were terribly snakebit and Jackie Robinson spent a year there in the minors but what else about that history is so rich? If memory serves me right, when the Expos were starting up they sent people on the Metro to teach people about the game as if they didn't know and this wasn't even a decade after the minor league Royals left!

I know Montreal is a hub of immigration for the francophone world but that indictment is pretty sad.

 

[OG6ix]

Is it? Yes, the Expos had a cool logo but were terribly snakebit and Jackie Robinson spent a year there in the minors but what else about that history is so rich? If memory serves me right, when the Expos were starting up they sent people on the Metro to teach people about the game as if they didn't know and this wasn't even a decade after the minor league Royals left!

I know Montreal is a hub of immigration for the francophone world but that indictment is pretty sad.

Yup it is - you can date baseball back to the 1800s in Montreal. It's not just Jackie Robinson breaking the colour barrier but guys like Roberto Clemente and Tommy Lasorda played for the Royals as well. That metro story might have been for little kids? The sport was immensely popular with little kids through out the 1900s.

On July 24, 1897, 4,000 people packed the park to see pitcher Louis Belcourt, the first French-Canadian team player, take home the first victory of what would later become the Royals or “Royals.” The following year, the team won their first championship in the Eastern League (an ancestor of the International League). In 1917, the club was ousted from the league, despite the fact that baseball was becoming more and more popular, eclipsing lacrosse as a summer sport.

 

[Jumptheshark]

They way it's presented by some there are more teams in danger of moving than there are actual cities that are capable to receive the teams.

Las Vegas and Nashville and Charlotte don't have any 30,000 + seat stadiums nor are there any actual plans to build them.

Montreal has actually presented somewhat of a plan for a stadium but it's far from a sure thing.

Montreal needs to BUILD it and pre-sell up season tickets with a 5 year guarantee to get teams attention. When the Spos left I stopped watching baseball--turns out I was more an expos fan than a baseball fan

 

[KevFu]

Get the Mayflower moving vans ready, Baltimore isn’t a Major League town anymore

It’s just a matter of time before the Orioles ship out as the Colts did decades ago

deadspin.com

Garbage article from a clickbait website.

"The reason they survive is national TV money."
"Easily, the league could get rid of Miami, Oakland, Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh, Cleveland and, yes, Baltimore."

The league is (all Big Four leagues are) structured in a way where every market is ensured survival even if they barely sell any tickets. That is called "certainty." That's also called "a successful model" and "recession proof."

It's very stupid to contract your business out of six markets when those businesses are guaranteed to be profitable.

 

[KevFu]

They way it's presented by some there are more teams in danger of moving than there are actual cities that are capable to receive the teams.

Las Vegas and Nashville and Charlotte don't have any 30,000 + seat stadiums nor are there any actual plans to build them.

Montreal has actually presented somewhat of a plan for a stadium but it's far from a sure thing.

The industry standard is a 30-year lease. All of the stadiums and arenas that opened in the 1990s are coming up on 30-years old, and therefore all the sports teams are looking to get more free stuff: either a new stadium if their existing one wasn't built the same way that newer stadiums were built (Tampa, Arizona), or just free upgrades if it was built well.

At the end of a lease, you're free to move your franchise if you want to, if someone offers to build you a shiny new stadium in a similar or bigger sized market. So the "Danger of moving" is nothing more than lease expiration.

Every single one of these teams would be totally fine staying in their current facilities another decade. Maybe the Ducks or Suns need new places sooner rather than later. But "danger" is not really an applicable term to the FRANCHISE. The Danger is to the FANS.

 

[KevFu]

i know 20 year ago there was talk about contracting some teams...

That was a CBA negotiating ploy. "Contraction" was a threat against the MLBPA that they couldn't keep paying the players so much money, they needed a salary cap; and the threat was to cut MLBPA jobs by 2 teams.

You had two of the most despicable owners, both of whom were trying to get new stadiums but couldn't because no one wanted to give billions in handouts to two guys who were such major buttholes. They volunteered their teams for the contraction threat because MLB would BUY THE TEAMS FROM THEM, and they'd have to be compensated with more money than any other bid to keep the team in existence. Both guys were trying to salt the earth so nothing could ever grow there again, since they were rejected in their attempts for new stadiums. Loria was intending to use that money to... buy a different team!

It's amazing how once MLB reached a new CBA with the players, contraction was never spoken of again.

The Twins, with Carl Pohlad in failing health and his son now negotiating, got a stadium deal done and Target Field opened the year after Pohlad died.

 

[StreetHawk]

The industry standard is a 30-year lease. All of the stadiums and arenas that opened in the 1990s are coming up on 30-years old, and therefore all the sports teams are looking to get more free stuff: either a new stadium if their existing one wasn't built the same way that newer stadiums were built (Tampa, Arizona), or just free upgrades if it was built well.

At the end of a lease, you're free to move your franchise if you want to, if someone offers to build you a shiny new stadium in a similar or bigger sized market. So the "Danger of moving" is nothing more than lease expiration.

Every single one of these teams would be totally fine staying in their current facilities another decade. Maybe the Ducks or Suns need new places sooner rather than later. But "danger" is not really an applicable term to the FRANCHISE. The Danger is to the FANS.

Suns got their big renovation done. Ducks extended their lease and really for arenas built in the 90’s expect renovations as the structure of the arenas for the most part are sound and just need to be updated.

Vancouver could use a widening of their concourse but since they built the arena between 2 viaducts there isn’t room to expand until the city does tear down the viaducts which they have talked about doing.

Plus there are logistical considerations as public transit has been built around most arenas over the years. So finding another location that is convenient is going to be tough for some cities.

 

[KevFu]

Suns got their big renovation done. Ducks extended their lease and really for arenas built in the 90’s expect renovations as the structure of the arenas for the most part are sound and just need to be updated.

Vancouver could use a widening of their concourse but since they built the arena between 2 viaducts there isn’t room to expand until the city does tear down the viaducts which they have talked about doing.

Plus there are logistical considerations as public transit has been built around most arenas over the years. So finding another location that is convenient is going to be tough for some cities.

I mentioned the Suns and Ducks because I can really only offer my assessment of places I've been in.

The Suns arena is just out of date. I know they got big renovations done; and it's not "Bad" by any means. But you can only do renovations as good as your "bones" will allow. You can clear out areas and put in clubs and premium areas, you can add an annex of sports bars/sports books, and party decks. And PHX did that and those are NICE areas.

But the bones of the bowl are early 90s, specifically the upper deck. There's nothing you can do to make the upper deck generate more than small amounts of revenue.

Compare it to UBS (which I haven't been to, but the upper deck concourse is VISIBLE on TV and pictures). The concourse can see the ice and it's full of bars and restaurants and areas fans can congregate. It's basically a giant food court where you can see an NHL game "down there." (which is the big trend in sports venues now)

I haven't been to the upper level of the Pond in Anaheim, but worked a basketball tournament where I was floor level and back of house.

There are plenty of venues I've been to, where if a team said the NEED a new arena/stadium, I'd say "No you don't."
- Camden Yards remains gorgeous.
- The Diamondbacks don't need a new stadium. Chase Field is highly underrated. They could remove upper deck seats and create more suites and party deck/food court areas where the game is visible.
- Capital One in Washington, and American Airlines in Dallas seem A LOT newer than Anaheim and Buffalo even though it's like 5 years max. GRA in Glendale isn't a bad arena at all. It was probably on the "Sooner rather than later" list of of needing to be replaced, but the LOCATION was always a million times worse than the arena itself.

- SAP Center in San Jose seems WAAAY newer than all of those places, especially Anaheim, and it opened the same year as the Pond.

The Pond and the Suns Arena reminded me of the Sacramento Kings arena that got replaced by 2017.

 

[KevFu]

And for the record, I don't think there's any reason for 95 percent (or more) of teams to be "We're moving if we don't get a new arena/stadium!" Almost all these places are TOTALLY FINE. (Tampa Bay Rays, Oakland Athletics are the only two that are justified in making threats).

But the reality is that some city without a team will build a brand new state of the art place, OR the home city will build one to not lose the team.

These teams will chase new arenas when their current lease is up simply because that's how leases work. Once their lease is up, they CAN look for new venues. It's no different than player free agency. You serve your time under control and then you're allowed to accept any offer and cash in on the best deal you can get.