Proposal: Get Colorado a 2nd line scorer

[boredmale]

Nelson for a 2nd.

I don't get why Islander fans want to dump Nelson. We just lost a 35 goal scorer and you want to give up a 20 goal scorer for table scraps?

 

[blinkman360]

I don't get why Islander fans want to dump Nelson. We just lost a 35 goal scorer and you want to give up a 20 goal scorer for table scraps?

I see Nelson as table scraps. It's time to move on. He'll probably be a bottom-six player here if he stays and he'll most likely be making close to $4M if I had to guess. Would rather just get the decent future piece while I still can and open up a spot for something hopefully better.

Plus, there are already too many bodies as it is. Someone has to go and I'd rather it be the guy who is too inconsistent offensively to be in a top-six role but too soft and lazy for the bottom-six. I'm sure Brock would welcome a change of scenery as well.

..who knows though, maybe Trotz works a miracle.

 

[Newsworthy]

Eberle is your guy.

 

[boredmale]

I see Nelson as table scraps. It's time to move on. He'll probably be a bottom-six player here if he stays and he'll most likely be making close to $4M if I had to guess. Would rather just get the decent future piece while I still can and open up a spot for something hopefully better.

Plus, there are already too many bodies as it is. Someone has to go and I'd rather it be the guy who is too inconsistent offensively to be in a top-six role but too soft and lazy for the bottom-six. I'm sure Brock would welcome a change of scenery as well.

..who knows though, maybe Trotz works a miracle.

While I get the Nelson hate, I do believe Nelson has been constantly misused during his entire Islanders tenure. Simple fact is he is not a center yet we constantly put him there(and yet he still puts up decent numbers goal wise in that spot). I do feel he would be much better served playing second line LW for a team looking for a cheap option there.

I honestly believe the Islanders at this point can't just go out and find an improvement for him unless they will stupidly trade for Pacioretty then give him a contract that we will regret(basically go to arbitration and let Nelson get his 2 year deal then we have no long term commitment).

 

[EdAVSfan]

Eberle is your guy.

I could see Sakic inquiring on Eberle. There were rumours that Colorado was interested before his trade to the Isles.

Just not sure they’re going to want to re-sign a 29 year old to a long term deal.

 

[blinkman360]

While I get the Nelson hate, I do believe Nelson has been constantly misused during his entire Islanders tenure. Simple fact is he is not a center yet we constantly put him there(and yet he still puts up decent numbers goal wise in that spot). I do feel he would be much better served playing second line LW for a team looking for a cheap option there.

I honestly believe the Islanders at this point can't just go out and find an improvement for him unless they will stupidly trade for Pacioretty then give him a contract that we will regret(basically go to arbitration and let Nelson get his 2 year deal then we have no long term commitment).

If anything though the LW-aspect is probably more reason to move him(unless you don't plan on re-upping Lee, but I'd much rather cough up big cash to keep Lee than average cash for Nelson). Lee and Beauvillier should have the top-2 LW spots locked down. Then you have Ladd who isn't going anywhere, Martin, Johnston who just re-upped for 4 years, plus Bellows and MDC waiting in the wings.

I think it just makes too much sense to move him. Maybe it will be part of something bigger though instead of just Brock for futures.

 

[boredmale]

Lee and Beauvillier should have the top-2 LW spots locked down.

I think it's stupid not testing Beauvillier at center. I do believe Beauvillier can have a career path of Ryan O'Reilly and given our lack of depth at center it would be stupid not to test that out

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

How many talented prospects do we have in the system that should have top 6 potential? How many of the rookies from last season have shown us their best hockey? Why are we looking to bring in someone, rather than giving the youngsters a fair shot at it?

 

[blinkman360]

I think it's stupid not testing Beauvillier at center. I do believe Beauvillier can have a career path of Ryan O'Reilly and given our lack of depth at center it would be stupid not to test that out

They probably will eventually, but I doubt it will be next season; at least not to start. They just brought in Filpp and Kovar so it appears as though they have their 4 centers to start the season with. Add in Beauvillier's chemistry with Barzal last year - I don't think I mess with that any time soon.

Either way I still don't see that as a reason to keep Nelson even if you do plan on moving Beauvillier to center eventually. By the time they're looking to move him - most likely next year with Kovar and Filpp off the books - you'll hopefully have Bellows ready to step into a LW spot. Hell, maybe even MDC if we're lucky.

 

[threeVo]

sounds like a job for Kyle Okposo. You dont have to overpay

 

[Lindys Lazy Eye]

Patches for Colorado's 2nd and Ottawa's 3rd in the 2019 draft?

 

[Perratrooper]

Pacioretty + Byron for COL 1st + COL 2nd + Meloche + Soderberg + conditional 2019 3rd if Pacioretty re-signs?

Assuming Colorado would want to get out of Soderberg's contract.

I’d give you a second and third for Patches and you can keep Byron. Patches is great for a team who’s window is now, but that’s not us. I want nothing to do with him and the contract he’ll sign at the end of the year personally.

 

[PAZ]

A combination of Kerfoot/Andrighetto + 2nd/3rd would be the ideal move if the right player is available, but that's not exactly an enticing package unless a team needs some cost-controlled assets and is willing to take lower value than normal. If a player that fit into our long terms plan was available could work in a player like Meloche or Greer, but I'm not too keen is sacrificing next years pick to try and join a nuclear arms race late.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Patches for Colorado's 2nd and Ottawa's 3rd in the 2019 draft?

That would seem like a steal for the Avs, but I really don't want them to be the team to hand him a 7 or 8 year deal in 2019.

If he was willing to take five years I'd pay more than that. You guys will get a first from some contender I'm sure.

 

[Perratrooper]

What’s your offer for Silfverberg?

Second and conditional third, condition being if he re-signs third becomes a 2020 second.

 

[tucker3434]

How many talented prospects do we have in the system that should have top 6 potential? How many of the rookies from last season have shown us their best hockey? Why are we looking to bring in someone, rather than giving the youngsters a fair shot at it?

I agree if we’re talking about a stopgap. This is a good growth year for those guys while expectations are still pretty low. It’d be a bad idea to bring in an older guy just to fill space. But if it’s a long term addition, it’d depend on the player and price. Plus, I don’t think we necessarily need to hold 3 spots for the young guys to fill. That’s a touch optimistic on our part. And if a couple years from now we do end up with too many good second liners, it’s a problem Sakic wont mind having to solve.

All that said, I’m down for a trading the lower (higher? worse, that works) of our two 1st rounders in next year’s draft plus something for Skinner. Neither us nor Ottawa is a team that, even in a best case scenario, is likely to make it past the first round, so the pick is probably no worse than the teens.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

I agree if we’re talking about a stopgap. This is a good growth year for those guys while expectations are still pretty low. It’d be a bad idea to bring in an older guy just to fill space. But if it’s a long term addition, it’d depend on the player and price. Plus, I don’t think we necessarily need to hold 3 spots for the young guys to fill. That’s a touch optimistic on our part. And if a couple years from now we do end up with too many good second liners, it’s a problem Sakic wont mind having to solve.

All that said, I’m down for a trading the lower (higher? worse, that works) of our two 1st rounders in next year’s draft plus something for Skinner. Neither us nor Ottawa is a team that, even in a best case scenario, is likely to make it past the first round, so the pick is probably no worse than the teens.

I agree that Skinner make sense, if the price is right, but I don't see many available options beyond him that would be a good fit. I also haven't really liked any of the packages that have been put together for Skinner, like Varly + 1st, so I'm not getting my hopes up. There's no reason to create a hole somewhere else for a 2nd line winger.

I also think that it would be a good thing to actually test our scouting staff, and see how much we can really trust them. Without good scouting/talent acquisition, we're not going to be competitive for very long, so figuring out whether we've actually corrected the issues we had is imperative to long term success. And, I think the best way to figure out whether we've corrected that problem is to play the youngsters, and see whether they are what we thought they are.

 

[Newsworthy]

I don't get why Islander fans want to dump Nelson. We just lost a 35 goal scorer and you want to give up a 20 goal scorer for table scraps?

I would Nelson for a second and a prospect.

 

[Kendo]

This would make sense if it were true that there's 6 Top 6 forwards on every single team in the league.
But it's not true. There's a lot of players playing in those roles that aren't actually good enough for those roles.

...

I'd say there's about 55-60 legit Top line quality players in the league and a similar number of 2nd liners.
1st line threshold IMO is 60+ points(And be strong at 5 on 5). If you can do that on a consistent, regular basis, you're a 1st liner. The threshold for a 2nd liner I consider to be 45 points.

I'm saying that "the best of those literally in the top 93 are actually deserving of it." We're saying the same thing in that regard, you're just being slightly more exclusive, even if 10 points seems like a lot.

I think you're making it waaay too exclusive on the second half of it, though. You're saying that what equates to the average 4th best on a team is the *cutoff* for the second line...and that's just bonkers. My second half was "anyone that ranks as an average top 5 is definitely a top 6," which is beyond reasonable.

 

[Chan790]

I also haven't really liked any of the packages that have been put together for Skinner, like Varly + 1st, so I'm not getting my hopes up. There's no reason to create a hole somewhere else for a 2nd line winger.

Feel free to make a proposal you think the Canes FO would accept.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Avs should be keeping there 1st round picks and top end youngsters to build around. Unfortunately, that will also take them out of the running for players like Skinner, Patches, Stone, etc. In the case of Skinner and Patches they could both walk at the end of the season so they really don't make sense.

Avs have a lot of cap space and should be looking at guys who won't cost premium assets. As other have mentioned Nelson and Nyquist fit the bill. Another name is David Backes who's actual salary is 11M over the next 3 years.

Even if people view them as 3rd liners they're still a big depth addition to the team that helps slot everyone better.

 

[Avalanche2133]

Most realistic players that fit the Avs criteria for a mid 20s 2nd liner with good speed...

Nugent Hopkins
Krieder
Palat
Killorn
Eberle

Longer shot guys...
Skinner
Stone

 

[Oddbob]

Not last year. Multiple 90+ point seasons across the board is a far cry from when Benn won the Art Ross with just 87 points. Scoring was way up last year, and while I expect it to go down a little bit I doubt it will go back to "70 points is elite scoring" levels either.

Like I said, Nyquist is a second liner only on a squad like Detroit where they barely have any players who would be top six players on a good team. Larkin's a good 2C, Mantha is growing into a strong scoring winger, and AA is young enough to grow into a second line scorer. That's about it for top six talent on the Wings now unless you count Zadina, who will probably step in and score 20 goals next season as a rookie.

2nd liners don't put up 90 pts. And on Colorado, Nyquist would have been 5th or 6th best scorer, which I guess on your team, makes him first liner?

 

[McMetal]

2nd liners don't put up 90 pts. And on Colorado, Nyquist would have been 5th or 6th best scorer, which I guess on your team, makes him first liner?

Yeah, he probably would have been on our second line. But the whole point is that we're trying to get BETTER than what we already have. Outside the top line, we've got no legit top six forwards, at best we're looking at strong middle sixers like Soderberg and unproven maybes like Andrighetto, Jost, and Kerfoot. Nyquist is just more of the same, except that he's proven he's a middle six forward when at least Jost and Kerfoot might end up better than that. As an insurance policy, we're looking at a second line forward NOW.

 

[Oddbob]

Yeah, he probably would have been on our second line. But the whole point is that we're trying to get BETTER than what we already have. Outside the top line, we've got no legit top six forwards, at best we're looking at strong middle sixers like Soderberg and unproven maybes like Andrighetto, Jost, and Kerfoot. Nyquist is just more of the same, except that he's proven he's a middle six forward when at least Jost and Kerfoot might end up better than that. As an insurance policy, we're looking at a second line forward NOW.

Agree about the getting better part, as I too would be looking for someone else. Nyquist is ok and all, but he doesn't compete hard enough for the 45 or so pts he brings in, if played a little harder maybe he could be a 60 pt guy, but I think this is what he is at this point. All in all, I miss the days when 70 pt players were on the 2nd line, the game was so much more fun to watch then.