Germany-the next big country?

[Cardiac Jerks]

Who said something about funny? It's a fact.

C’mon now, you were clearly trying to be funny.

 

[Nico Hischier]

With players like Leon Draisaitl and others.

Ah yes players like Leon draisaitl and “others”. When you only name one of their players how could they possibly be the next big thing. Only other player I could think of is stutzle.

 

[Albatros]

Are there any lower divisions below DEL and how many levels?

First tier DEL, second tier DEL2, third tier Oberliga (2 leagues), fourth tier Regionalliga (5 leagues), and below that a number of 5th and 6th tier leagues.

 

[Peiskos]

I can absolutely see Deutschland overtaking countries like Sverige long term, only if they put more focus into hockey, football is by far drawing the most talented athletes in Deutschland at the moment.

 

[Tuoppi]

Is Latvia the next big country?

 

[ts11]

I would love for that to happen, but as others have said, I don't see it happening in the next decade, if ever.
Hockey has it's niche, but this niche isn't uncontestet, they are not only competing with the allmighty soccer, but also handball, basketball and increasingly (at least for media coverage and sponsors) American Football.

 

[smitty10]

I think that Germany will be really solid in about 2 years in a best-on-best tournament. They'll have a team with elite NHLers, solid NHL depth and lots of NHL + top Euro league experience. They even have some Stanley Cups on that roster.

Peterka-Draisaitl-Steutzle
Kahun-Reichel-Noebels
Kuhnhackl-Sturm-Rieder

Seider
Holzer
Szuber
Wissmann
Munzenberger

Grubauer
Niederberger
Quapp

Edit: forgot about Bokk who seems to have taken a big step this year.

 

[Huusko]

Germany got relegated at the U18's... Lit up by Norway

I wanted to write the same. Otherwise I don`t think, the German U18 team is so bad how they played. I had the feeling there was something bad in the team. Especially the 2007 players seem to be promising with the Griva-brothers and Lewandowski.

 

[Huusko]

At least even my German friends with Asian roots are now starting to love ice-hockey!

 

[Czechboy]

I've been saying that Germany has what the Czech needs to be a big 5 again. Let us have Drai, stutzl and seider and we are back in medal contention at best on beats! They also pair up amazingly with the Swiss!

Their best on best is a very good squad that could beat anyone but not win gold (like Czechs or Swiss for instance)

But look at the u20s and u18s and draft picks... It's not that encouraging outside of that bumper crop of Drai, stutzl, seider, peterka, book and Reichel. And a few of those guys still have work to do to be full time NHLers... While theyve struggled a bit... Kahun and Reider left the NHL.

Elite Prospects - Players from Germany in the NHL Entry Draft

For instance... The Czechs aren't in the conversation and we have a lot more guys drafted and in NHL annually and we are weak!

Hope they keep building though... Outside of the soccer thing... Perfect nation to develop and become a hockey power. Money is there and athletes are there

 

[Eye of Ra]

I can absolutely see Deutschland overtaking countries like Sverige long term, only if they put more focus into hockey, football is by far drawing the most talented athletes in Deutschland at the moment.

well germany can overtake canada, czecha and finland too, remember that its only usa and russia that have higher population than germany. Not sure why you limit Germany to only being able to overtake Sweden and thats it. They have more potential than just overtake Sweden.

 

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

In a true best on best tournament with no Russian ban, are they top 6?

Not likely.

USA, Canada, Finland, Russia, Sweden and Czechia are still better. They are solidly in the next tier, though, and on any given day could probably beat a team from a couple teams on that list.

In order to break into that top six, you need a program of excellence at the youth level, and a national passion for the sport.

 

[Eye of Ra]

In a true best on best tournament with no Russian ban, are they top 6?

Not likely.

USA, Canada, Finland, Russia, Sweden and Czechia are still better. They are solidly in the next tier, though, and on any given day could probably beat a team from a couple teams on that list.

In order to break into that top six, you need a program of excellence at the youth level, and a national passion for the sport.

They are. Germany have 3 elite players in Drai, Stuzle and Seider that can win games on their own. The other players Germany have is decent and can play it safe and keep it 0-0. then drai, stutzle, seider doing the points

 

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

They are. Germany have 3 elite players in Drai, Stuzle and Seider that can win games on their own. The other players Germany have is decent and can play it safe and keep it 0-0. then drai, stutzle, seider doing the points

Prove it in the next true best on best and I'll believe it.

I think the Oilers proved you can't win with a superstar (or two) and a less than average supporting cast.

​

Tim Stuztle had a great season. If your nation is relying on a 90 point, 21 year old non-playoff player as your second most heralded player, you're not there yet. You might beat Czechia.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Prove it in the next true best on best and I'll believe it.

I think the Oilers proved you can't win with a superstar (or two) and a less than average supporting cast.

​

Tim Stuztle had a great season. If your nation is relying on a 90 point, 21 year old non-playoff player as your second most heralded player, you're not there yet. You might beat Czechia.

Well Germany have 3 superstars, a good goalie, gritty players and good coaching. And best on best is not as demanding as stanley cup, there is no best to 7 games nor the same physciality. Put Oilers in best on best, and they would be gold-canidate. Germany is even better than Oilers...

I think that Germany will be really solid in about 2 years in a best-on-best tournament. They'll have a team with elite NHLers, solid NHL depth and lots of NHL + top Euro league experience. They even have some Stanley Cups on that roster.

Peterka-Draisaitl-Steutzle
Kahun-Reichel-Noebels
Kuhnhackl-Sturm-Rieder

Seider
Holzer
Szuber
Wissmann
Munzenberger

Grubauer
Niederberger
Quapp

Edit: forgot about Bokk who seems to have taken a big step this year.

thats not what their best on best team look like. this is more like it:

Michaelis - Draisaitl - Kahun
Reichel - Stützle - Peterka
Plachta - Noebels - Ehliz
Rieder - Sturm - Kühnhackl
Bokk, Stachowiak

Hüttl - Seider
M.Muller - Wissmann
J.Muller - Gawanke

Grubauer, Niederberger, Strahlmeier

 

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

Well Germany have 3 superstars, a good goalie, gritty players and good coaching. And best on best is not as demanding as stanley cup, there is no best to 7 games nor the same physciality. Put Oilers in best on best, and they would be gold-canidate. Germany is even better than Oilers...


thats not what their best on best team look like. this is more like it:

Michaelis - Draisaitl - Kahun
Reichel - Stützle - Peterka
Plachta - Noebels - Ehliz
Rieder - Sturm - Kühnhackl
Bokk, Stachowiak

Hüttl - Seider
M.Muller - Wissmann
J.Muller - Gawanke

Grubauer, Niederberger, Strahlmeier

Yeah, that list only makes me think I ranked Germany too high. I'm a hockey junkie and I don't know half those names.

Canada and the US would be leaving players off their rosters who are NHL stars. The gap is wider than you think.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Yeah, that list only makes me think I ranked Germany too high. I'm a hockey junkie and I don't know half those names.

Canada and the US would be leaving players off their rosters who are NHL stars.

Just because you dont know them, does not mean they suck.

Also who said that German will be on the level of Canada, USA, Russia and Finland? But for sure Germans are in the second tier with Czechia ,Swiss, Slovaks, Sweden.

 

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

Just because you dont know them, does not mean they suck.

Also who said that German will be on the level of Canada, USA, Russia and Finland? But for sure Germans are in the second tier with Czechia ,Swiss, Slovaks, Sweden.

That's what I said, the next tier.

If I don't know their names, they are not in the NHL. If they are not in the NHL, they are not good enough to play in the NHL, and thus not as good as NHL players.

You are overrating players outside of the NHL and the depth of other nations.

I could give you an amazing list of Canadian AHL players who would still outscore your Swiss and German League players and that Canadian team would get destroyed by Team Sweden, even if Connor McDavid was playing with them.

Karlsson, Petterson, Zibanejad, Dahlin, Nylander, Backlund etc. would FEAST on non-NHL players.

 

[EHCler]

Yes baby Fischi

 

[Albatros]

That's what I said, the next tier.

If I don't know their names, they are not in the NHL. If they are not in the NHL, they are not good enough to play in the NHL, and thus not as good as NHL players.

You are overrating players outside of the NHL and the depth of other nations.

I could give you an amazing list of Canadian AHL players who would still outscore your Swiss and German League players and that Canadian team would get destroyed by Team Sweden, even if Connor McDavid was playing with them.

Karlsson, Petterson, Zibanejad, Dahlin, Nylander, Backlund etc. would FEAST on non-NHL players.

A lot of Swiss or German league players could do their career in the AHL with even an occasional appearance in the NHL. But as there are hardly any positives to that, it's rather the AHL Canadians that make their way to Switzerland and Germany once they see that becoming a regular in the NHL is not in the cards.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Karlsson, Petterson, Zibanejad, Dahlin, Nylander, Backlund etc. would FEAST on non-NHL players.

Yeah, we saw that WC 2022 and WC 2019..

 

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

A lot of Swiss or German league players could do their career in the AHL with even an occasional appearance in the NHL. But as there are hardly any positives to that, it's rather the AHL Canadians that make their way to Switzerland and Germany once they see that becoming a regular in the NHL is not in the cards.

I agree. There is no point in being a marginal NHLer when you can play closer to home and make better money doing so.

If they were not marginal NHLers, but rather day-to-day NHLers, they'd be here.

Average salaries in various leagues.

1. NHL – $2.69 million USD Avg. Salary

2. KHL (Russia) – $425,000 USD Avg. Salary

3. NL (Swiss) – $228,000 USD Avg. Salary

4. SHL (Sweden) – $110,000 USD Avg. Salary

5. SM-Liiga (Finland) – $100,000 USD Avg. Salary

As of 2022, the average salary for a player in the American Hockey League (AHL) is $53,414 per year.

So the level of hockey in those leagues is less than the NHL.

Which was my point. A bunch of AHL level players are not going to compete in a best-on-best tournament. Usually not even with a good core of NHLers.

The last time a non-NHL roster team won a best on best was likely 1998, when the Czech Republic won gold at the Olympics with a few non NHLers. That's why Canada and the US are rarely going to lose those tournaments until that changes.

Yeah, we saw that WC 2022 and WC 2019..

You think those were best on bests? Come on, man, educate yourself on hockey.

I'm not siting here saying Canada can beat Germany at the World Cup of Soccer because we have a few decent players now.

 

[Eye of Ra]

I agree. There is no point in being a marginal NHLer when you can play closer to home and make better money doing so.

If they were not marginal NHLers, but rather day-to-day NHLers, they'd be here.

Average salaries in various leagues.

1. NHL – $2.69 million USD Avg. Salary

2. KHL (Russia) – $425,000 USD Avg. Salary

3. NL (Swiss) – $228,000 USD Avg. Salary

4. SHL (Sweden) – $110,000 USD Avg. Salary

5. SM-Liiga (Finland) – $100,000 USD Avg. Salary

As of 2022, the average salary for a player in the American Hockey League (AHL) is $53,414 per year.

So the level of hockey on thiose leagues is less than the NHL.

Which was my point. A bunch of AHL level players are not going to compete in a best-on-best tournament. Usually not even with a good core of NHLers.

The last time a non-NHL roster team won a best on best was likely 1998, when the Czech Republic won gold at the Olympics with a few non NHLers. That's why Canada and the US are rarely going to lose those tournaments until that changes.


You think those were best on bests? Come on, man, educate yourself on hockey.

I'm not siting here saying Canada can beat Germany at the World Cup of Soccer because we have a few decent players now.

I know. But we had many NHL stars and still we failed in even WC..

 

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

I know. But we had many NHL stars and still we failed in even WC..

Not even close to a best on best though.

Make no mistake, on any given day, a second tier team can beat a top tier team.

But we are not talking about one-offs or fluke occurances. We are talking about where the programs are at. The title of this thread suggests Germany is possibly in that top tier now.

They aren't. In a seven game series against any of the top teams, they are losing 99 times out of 100.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Not even close to a best on best though.

Make no mistake, on any given day, a second tier team can beat a top tier team.

But we are not talking about one-offs or fluke occurances. We are talking about where the programs are at. The title of this thread suggests Germany is possibly in that top tier now.

They aren't. In a seven game series against any of the top teams, they are losing 99 times out of 100.

if we cant even have sucess with nhl stars in wc...then we wont have any success in best on best...