Gelinas as a forward

[guitarguyvic]

I know this has been discussed in the past and most are against the idea. But what are everyone’s thoughts around attempting to convert Gelinas to forward? I don’t really see a lot of downside to experimenting with it. We have a dearth of young talented D-men both already in the lineup and in the minors, so it’s not like we are sacrificing our future blueline. Gelinas is young (i.e. faster than all of our old lumbering forwards), has a good wrister, a great slapshot, big body, decent defensively. With the lack of forward prospects we have (while having an excess on defense), it just seems like it could be a move that makes sense. And we’ve seen it work for other teams in the recent past (Byfuglien, Burns). Of course if we could trade him for a young forward asset that would be great – but converting him could be another alternative. Worst case scenario if it doesn’t work out, we put him back on D. Thoughts??

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[Richer's Ghost]

No, because next year he'll be needed on D. And he stunk at forward last year. And it takes away his best asset which is his slapshot because he won't have time to wind up at forward with it.

Salvador and Zidlicky are safe bets to be gone next year. Need Gelly on D. Fill in for Zids role and then someone else (Helgeson) to replace Salvador.

Greene-Larsson
Helgeson-Severson
Merrill-Gelinas

 

[JimEIV]

No, because next year he'll be needed on D. And he stunk at forward last year. And it takes away his best asset which is his slapshot because he won't have time to wind up at forward with it.

Salvador and Zidlicky are safe bets to be gone next year. Need Gelly on D. Fill in for Zids role and then someone else (Helgeson) to replace Salvador.

Greene-Larsson
Helgeson-Severson
Merrill-Gelinas

I don't care how they are paired, I like that. 100% Home Grown.

 

[schoenfeld]

i know absolutely nothing of helgesons game, is he that close to being NHL ready?

 

[OmNomNom]

i would rather put zidlicky as a forward first

 

[Richer's Ghost]

i know absolutely nothing of helgesons game, is he that close to being NHL ready?

Ask Jim or Classic. They seem more up to speed on him. I just know he's supposed to be the stay at home, pure D, checking defense type.

And he'll be 25 next year.
6'5" - 220 lbs.

Talent Analysis

Helgeson plays a simple and safe game, using his imposing size to his advantage. He excels at rubbing opponents out along the boards and behind the net. Not only does he use his size physically, but his long reach also aids him with his defending off the rush, as well in his own end. He is usually in good position and does a good job using his stick to take away passing lanes. A prototypical stay-at-home defenseman, Helgeson’s skating stride and puck skills have improved tremendously in his three years at the University of Minnesota. He’ll never put up a lot of points, but he makes strong, crisp outlet passes and does a good job of getting the puck through traffic and towards the net.

 

[JimEIV]

i know absolutely nothing of helgesons game, is he that close to being NHL ready?

He will be a Colin White/Bryce Salavador (EDIT:Not claiming he'll be as good as those two - just style comparison) kind of player but he is probably a better skater than those two.

I think he is close, I think he could come in and give 12-15 bottom pairing minutes this season.

 

[Tundra]

i know absolutely nothing of helgesons game, is he that close to being NHL ready?

Ready for what? Occupy space? Then yeah.

 

[Classic Devil]

i know absolutely nothing of helgesons game, is he that close to being NHL ready?

I'm not sure because we haven't seen him against NHL competition, but I say he's close. He's big and he skates very well for a big defenseman. No offensive instincts to speak of, but he has the physical and mental tools to be a quality shutdown defenseman at the NHL level, which frankly is exactly what this team needs.

The fact that DeBoer said that Helgeson was ready to come up and be injury relief says a lot.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

He will be a Colin White/Bryce Salavador (EDIT:Not claiming he'll be as good as those two - just style comparison) kind of player but he is probably a better skater than those two.

I think he is close, I think he could come in and give 12-15 bottom pairing minutes this season.

I'm not sure because we haven't seen him against NHL competition, but I say he's close. He's big and he skates very well for a big defenseman. No offensive instincts to speak of, but he has the physical and mental tools to be a quality shutdown defenseman at the NHL level, which frankly is exactly what this team needs.

The fact that DeBoer said that Helgeson was ready to come up and be injury relief says a lot.

Maybe he'll be the Jason Smith that we don't let get away.

 

[JerryGigantic]

I'm not sure because we haven't seen him against NHL competition, but I say he's close. He's big and he skates very well for a big defenseman. No offensive instincts to speak of, but he has the physical and mental tools to be a quality shutdown defenseman at the NHL level, which frankly is exactly what this team needs.

The fact that DeBoer said that Helgeson was ready to come up and be injury relief says a lot.

He did not look out of place in the pre-season games and seemed roughly on par with the other kids, more or less, but has much more of a physical edge. He and Severson looked especially good together, and Seth was a surprisingly good skater for a big dude.

If Sal had wheels, basically, is what you get here. Might get exposed early on, but since Sal is being lit up these days, if we had to deal with a learning curve with this kid that started at some point this season, happy to go there.

 

[JimEIV]

Maybe he'll be the Jason Smith that we don't let get away.

I would set the bar way lower.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

I would set the bar way lower.

I was pretty much 95% kidding. Big stay at home D with no offensive upside though conjured him up in my head.

 

[Classic Devil]

I would set the bar way lower.

He could be Jason Smith, but yeah I've gotten excited about defensive defenseman in the past and been disappointed. I think very highly of Helgeson as a prospect (not nearly as highly as I think of Santini, but nobody ever compared Helgeson to Rod Langway) and I think he's going to bring the element that this defense currently lacks outside of Salvador, but let's see him in the NHL before we start penciling him in as a future 20-year defensive stalwart.

Edit: back on topic, no Gelinas' offensive game wouldn't translate well to forward.

 

[JimEIV]

He could be Jason Smith, but yeah I've gotten excited about defensive defenseman in the past and been disappointed. I think very highly of Helgeson as a prospect (not nearly as highly as I think of Santini, but nobody ever compared Helgeson to Rod Langway) and I think he's going to bring the element that this defense currently lacks outside of Salvador, but let's see him in the NHL before we start penciling him in as a future 20-year defensive stalwart.

Edit: back on topic, no Gelinas' offensive game wouldn't translate well to forward.

Me too. I was in love the first time I saw Tyler Eckford on a televised game of U of Alaska


I think the idea of Moving Gelinas to forward is crazy. He has shown marked improvement on the defense side of the game this season...And my opinion is whenever you see improvement you have a player that can learn to refine his game.

 

[Marshal Rochambeau]

No, because next year he'll be needed on D. And he stunk at forward last year. And it takes away his best asset which is his slapshot because he won't have time to wind up at forward with it.

Salvador and Zidlicky are safe bets to be gone next year. Need Gelly on D. Fill in for Zids role and then someone else (Helgeson) to replace Salvador.

Greene-Larsson
Helgeson-Severson
Merrill-Gelinas

Why are Salvador and Zidlicky like to be gone next year? I think Lou can also see the potential problem that arises if they leave and will sign Sal for depth and Zidlicky as a stopgap.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

Why are Salvador and Zidlicky like to be gone next year? I think Lou can also see the potential problem that arises if they leave and will sign Sal for depth and Zidlicky as a stopgap.

38 & 39.

Even if you aren't watching the games, those numbers alone tell a tale.

 

[wellonegm05*]

Why? So Salvador can continue trying to play defense? Gelinas being moved just to keep an inferior player in the lineup is ridiculous. Kind of like the crap we pulled with Corrente.

 

[Cowbell232]

Why? So Salvador can continue trying to play defense? Gelinas being moved just to keep an inferior player in the lineup is ridiculous. Kind of like the crap we pulled with Corrente.

This is not applicable. Gelinas is an NHL caliber d-man, especially on the power play, regardless of his weaknesses.

Bryce Salvador does not play in a style like Gelinas, and that's apples to oranges. Matt Corrente is not an NHL caliber defenseman, as proven by his AHL track record.

That being said, Gelinas should stay at D and deal with his growing pains.

 

[wellonegm05*]

This is not applicable. Gelinas is an NHL caliber d-man, especially on the power play, regardless of his weaknesses.

Bryce Salvador does not play in a style like Gelinas, and that's apples to oranges. Matt Corrente is not an NHL caliber defenseman, as proven by his AHL track record.

That being said, Gelinas should stay at D and deal with his growing pains.

This whole "style" thing is the biggest load of bs. Who cares what your style is if the results suck? Salvador is on the ice for an absolutely absurdly high % of goals against. He botches plays all the time, is slow, has zero to contribute offensively. And just like with Gionta, Sal being in the lineup with Pete coaching the team is just too much temptation for our incompetent coach and inevitably leads to him getting wayyy too much ice time.

This is reminiscent of the late 90's bullpen nonsense in baseball. Every team needed one of those "crafty" specialist guys in their pen. Never mind the fact the bulk of them had 5+ ERA's, the fact that they filled some made up "role" was all that was important. Bottom line is Sal sucks at just about everything, so who cares what "role" he fills.

 

[Classic Devil]

This whole "style" thing is the biggest load of bs. Who cares what your style is if the results suck? Salvador is on the ice for an absolutely absurdly high % of goals against. He botches plays all the time, is slow, has zero to contribute offensively. And just like with Gionta, Sal being in the lineup with Pete coaching the team is just too much temptation for our incompetent coach and inevitably leads to him getting wayyy too much ice time.

This is reminiscent of the late 90's bullpen nonsense in baseball. Every team needed one of those "crafty" specialist guys in their pen. Never mind the fact the bulk of them had 5+ ERA's, the fact that they filled some made up "role" was all that was important. Bottom line is Sal sucks at just about everything, so who cares what "role" he fills.

Because you need the hard-nosed physical shutdown defenseman. You just do. I agree that he's not doing a good job at filling that role, but putting Gelians in the lineup to take Salvador's minutes is not actually going to have a positive impact, because Gelinas isn't better than Salvador at doing the things Salvador is there to do.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

no, he should stay on D.

 

[Cowbell232]

This whole "style" thing is the biggest load of bs. Who cares what your style is if the results suck? Salvador is on the ice for an absolutely absurdly high % of goals against. He botches plays all the time, is slow, has zero to contribute offensively. And just like with Gionta, Sal being in the lineup with Pete coaching the team is just too much temptation for our incompetent coach and inevitably leads to him getting wayyy too much ice time.

This is reminiscent of the late 90's bullpen nonsense in baseball. Every team needed one of those "crafty" specialist guys in their pen. Never mind the fact the bulk of them had 5+ ERA's, the fact that they filled some made up "role" was all that was important. Bottom line is Sal sucks at just about everything, so who cares what "role" he fills.

That fact that your comparing hockey and baseball helps my case more than your own.

Yes, Sal is not fulfilling his role at this time, but stuffing Gelinas into those minutes isn't a net positive on the team either. Still say Gelinas stays on D, and has a little patience.

 

[wellonegm05*]

Because you need the hard-nosed physical shutdown defenseman. You just do. I agree that he's not doing a good job at filling that role, but putting Gelians in the lineup to take Salvador's minutes is not actually going to have a positive impact, because Gelinas isn't better than Salvador at doing the things Salvador is there to do.

What is the worst that happens? Part of it has to be bad luck, but it is literally not sustainable for teams to score more often than they currently do against Salvador. He is that bad. Without Sal in the lineup, I don't see what happens that is so terrible that we arent already experiencing. Why is it a prerequisite for the "hard nosed physical" dman to be slow as ish and offensively useless. Is it really going to change the outcomes of the games if we remove a guy who is responsible for more than 1/2 of the goals scored against us?

 

[Classic Devil]

What is the worst that happens? Part of it has to be bad luck, but it is literally not sustainable for teams to score more often than they currently do against Salvador. He is that bad. Without Sal in the lineup, I don't see what happens that is so terrible that we arent already experiencing. Why is it a prerequisite for the "hard nosed physical" dman to be slow as ish and offensively useless. Is it really going to change the outcomes of the games if we remove a guy who is responsible for more than 1/2 of the goals scored against us?

There are two things to keep in mind:

(1) The locker room effect - do not underestimate the importance of personalities, and the effect that benching certain players who are well liked can have on a room.

(2) The skillset effect - Salvador is in the lineup primarily to play on the PK. Taking his minutes away means giving them to someone else, and there isn't anyone else there to take them who would do a better job with them in that capacity.

I agree Salvador is a negative on the team right now, but that isn't the same thing as saying Salvador shouldn't be in the lineup. (I was one who believed that Salvador should've received the compliance buyout, not Volchenkov.)