GDT: GDT #69 New York Islanders @ Detroit Red Wings | March 21st | 7:00 PM | F/L 6-3

[crashthenet]

So many blown chances against a leaky Reimer. Likely should have been leading by one or two after one. Story of the season, just don't do enough to win and then you're on the other side of it.

Embarrassing to see Fasching on the second line. I struggle with the thought that making the playoffs wasn't worth a 4th round draft pick or something similar.

What is the explanation for these D zone collapses. Goals 2 and 3 players magically appear in that gaping hole in the slot. Not ours of course. What system of defense encourages the defenseman to pressure low while forwards get lost in rotation?

Change for next year will be difficult but will have to accomplished. Perhaps moving on from JGP and Pelech is a start. Romanov is our best LD and JGP is very overpaid for his role and production.

I'll hold off on questioning Roy as he is still saddled with some deadwood on the bench. I will say Varly against the Rangers was an automatic at one time and, Nelson-Plams- and hopefully rejuvenated Engvall was an option and puts Barzy back with Beau. A little surprised it wasn't that versus Barzy - Lee- Dreck.

 

[MJF]

I think that is 100% true, but to what degree is he biting his tongue and how much effort is it requiring of him to do that and how long can he keep it up if things continue to go south? As you know, after his experience in CO he left the NHL and went to the Q where he knew almost nothing but success - and frankly where it's easier to have success. I just really have my doubts about this working as a long term relationship. This is going to be a very frustrating franchise to run for the foreseeable future, be it from behind the bench or upstairs.

I think Roy is probably seething inside. Waiting to see in the last 14 games if he lets something slip during one of his media conferences.

 

[periferal]

If Barzal actually shot the puck he'd be much closer to the MacKinnon and McDavid types, that's the issue. He has the talent to be that good and we see it from time to time but not consistently. If you've accepted that from your top player, okay, but that's not going to stop others from criticising that type of play. He gets more minutes than the Engvall's and Pageau's and is consistently put out during times where the team needs to score and he passes it instead. Saying Engvall is a bigger problem when he's playing 5-7 less minutes per night and in less crucial situations just isn't accurate when discussing the actual game (not roster construction). The expectations for your top players needs to be substantially higher than it does for the bottom players because they're capable of a lot more. Shrugging your shoulders and saying, "he is what he is" and then complaining about Engvall and not accepting a more limited player for what he is seems completely backwards. To be clear, Engvall also deserves criticism, but he's not the reason Barzal doesn't shoot the puck when he's in a prime scoring location (actually, he might be because Barzal is trying to pass it to him).

I don't think Barzal is the #1 guy on the team, he's just got the most talent.

I feel like many conflate complaints about the actual game we're watching with the roster construction. Though connected, they're two different things. Sure, if we had an upgrade on Engvall or Lee then Barzal might need to be scoring some of these goals we're looking for, but that's the position he's in, he has the opportunity, and he's not doing it.

I think you've mostly hashed this out with Hawk, but Barzal at his best is simply not in the same league as guys like McDavid or MacKinnon at their best. If you believe that then we will agree to disagree about what he's doing wrong and his potential.

Could he be better? Absolutely, but I really think he doesn't have a lot of confidence in his shot and it's probably because...It's not that good. Barzal is like Lee in that they literally don't have slap shots so all their goals must be scored closer to the net. And maybe since he isn't the biggest guy and can skate circles around guys that he rarely ever drives the net.

Barzal is the best we've got...But he ain't close to the best in the league. And that's kind of a metaphor for the problem around here - We need more skill players and if we were to acquire them they will help make Barzal better the way Rantanen and Draisaitl make MacKinnon and McDavid better. It's no accident that Barzal has been playing some of his best hockey once he settled it with Horvat.

Again I want Barzal to be better, but I also rate him definitely as part of the solution overall. Even at his best he's still going to be a setup guy at heart and never going to have a bard shot or be a physical player. Not everyone offers a bit of everything like Clark Gillies. Nelson is about as tough as a marshmallow. Lee wouldn't be able to dangle around cones if he was the only one on the ice. Matt Martin was never a scorer, but doesn't mean he didn't have tons of value. This is what a team is - When the individual parts come together to form a whole. And right now to me the team is so devoid of speed, scoring, youth, and toughness that if those problems were addressed I'd bet that would also make Barzal better.

Make his linemates better…that’s classic. There’s 8 years of that NOT happening except with one player this season. Brilliant.

Your hard on for bashing Barzal has reached "there's no talking to you about it" levels. At least Bones was able to joke about his disdain for Bailey.

But it isn't about hating him or thinking that he's no good. He is very, very talented but he simply does not fill the role that the organization - and the fans - were hoping that he would fill, that of face of the franchise, team leader, guy you can rally round, clutch performer, elite scorer. Seven years in he just isn't that guy.

Very well said.

And yes, without him the team would be embarrassing offensively, but it's pretty embarrassing on both sides of the puck now and in the worst possible way. Just good enough to never be great. A borderline playoff team with no real shot. A team can stay in that mode for a long time if they don't accept that that is the situation. Everything and everyone has to be on the table. Doesn't mean you give players away, but "all offers considered". And of course, the guy considering those offers must change.

Amen to this post. Amen indeed.

 

[Throttle]

I think you've mostly hashed this out with Hawk, but Barzal at his best is simply not in the same league as guys like McDavid or MacKinnon at their best. If you believe that then we will agree to disagree about what he's doing wrong and his potential.

Could he be better? Absolutely, but I really think he doesn't have a lot of confidence in his shot and it's probably because...It's not that good. Barzal is like Lee in that they literally don't have slap shots so all their goals must be scored closer to the net. And maybe since he isn't the biggest guy and can skate circles around guys that he rarely ever drives the net.

Barzal is the best we've got...But he ain't close to the best in the league. And that's kind of a metaphor for the problem around here - We need more skill players and if we were to acquire them they will help make Barzal better the way Rantanen and Draisaitl make MacKinnon and McDavid better. It's no accident that Barzal has been playing some of his best hockey once he settled it with Horvat.

Again I want Barzal to be better, but I also rate him definitely as part of the solution overall. Even at his best he's still going to be a setup guy at heart and never going to have a bard shot or be a physical player. Not everyone offers a bit of everything like Clark Gillies. Nelson is about as tough as a marshmallow. Lee wouldn't be able to dangle around cones if he was the only one on the ice. Matt Martin was never a scorer, but doesn't mean he didn't have tons of value. This is what a team is - When the individual parts come together to form a whole. And right now to me the team is so devoid of speed, scoring, youth, and toughness that if those problems were addressed I'd bet that would also make Barzal better.




Your hard on for bashing Barzal has reached "there's no talking to you about it" levels. At least Bones was able to joke about his disdain for Bailey.




Very well said.




Amen to this post. Amen indeed.

A player going -10 in his last six games, those critical games, that allegedly plays a top role for the team, is not something to dismiss is ‘it’s everyone else’ on the team.

Best players gotta be your best players. He’s not, let alone at a crucial juncture. Just like he disappeared after the Xmas break.

Here, I thought he was ‘pumped’ to play for Roy and kinda side slapped Lambert after he was canned in the media. Like I said at that time, shut up and put up. He’s doing great leading the Isles to miss the playoffs. But yeah, he missed the last 20 games last season and the Isles played over .600 hockey to make it - a higher percentage the entire season with him in the lineup.

Trotz and Lambert are probably laughing going, ‘good luck with that one, Roy.’

 

[periferal]

A player going -10 in his last six games, those critical games, that allegedly plays a top role for the team, is not something to dismiss is ‘it’s everyone else’ on the team.

Best players gotta be your best players. He’s not, let alone at a crucial juncture. Just like he disappeared after the Xmas break.

Here, I thought he was ‘pumped’ to play for Roy and kinda side slapped Lambert after he was canned in the media. Like I said at that time, shut up and put up. He’s doing great leading the Isles to miss the playoffs. But yeah, he missed the last 20 games last season and the Isles played over .600 hockey to make it - a higher percentage the entire season with him in the lineup.

Trotz and Lambert are probably laughing going, ‘good luck with that one, Roy.’

Man...

You've reached "foaming at the mouth level" in terms of your hatred for Barzal. Did he steal your girlfriend? Reject your advances?

Whatever the reason for you not being able to have an objective conversation about Barzal, you must also be fuming at the guy who decided to pay him $9,150,000 a year through the next decade.