GDT: GDT #4 New York Islanders @ Buffalo Sabres | October 21st | 7 PM | F/L 3-1

[MJF]

He isnt Hughes, Mackinnon, or any other superstar. He is a good 1st line player. People need to see him for what he is. He is the best forward on this team, but that says more about Lou than anyone else.

He oozes speed and skill and people think that automatically makes him a 100+ point player, but it doesnt. Some of that blame falls on him, some on coaching, and some on the roster construction. People love to hate on Barzal, but he makes this team better, Lou needs to find more talent to add to this forward group, not take away the little we have.

Barzal oozes edgework and the ability to hold onto the puck. It just hasn't really translated into scoring. What took 8 years to finally get through his skull is that playing more of a north-south game and trusting his shot is benefitting the team more. Maybe that's the biggest benefit of having Bo Horvat here.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Barzal's rookie year was an anomaly on a team that didn't play any defense. Fair argument to suggest he should be at C and Horvat moved to wing, but I don't think he's being stunted by Lambert's system. Barzal is what he is. This is his 7th season. He's a very skilled player, an excellent skater (2nd best edgework in the league IMO). He'll get more assists than goals. Legit 1st liner. Just won't be that 80-100 point player.

 

[saintunspecified]

There's a bunch of things obviously wrong with the team, but Barzal's wing play at ES has not been one of them. It's going to be a learning curve to do learn breakouts on the off wing, and he made an error (don't remember when) last game, but that's to be expected. I think he'll get it. I think the fit on the off wing has been very good in transition, and I think he should have a couple more points by now with better finishing from Horvat. That the Islanders are short a top-line winger is the big problem with the top 6. But that issue has taken a back seat, for me, to my impression that the bottom six is a total liability. NYI won't be able to remain competitive for long with close to zero contributions from the bottom six. No solution is in sight.

 

[Rehabguy]

There's a bunch of things obviously wrong with the team, but Barzal's wing play at ES has not been one of them. It's going to be a learning curve to do learn breakouts on the off wing, and he made an error (don't remember when) last game, but that's to be expected. I think he'll get it. I think the fit on the off wing has been very good in transition, and I think he should have a couple more points by now with better finishing from Horvat. That the Islanders are short a top-line winger is the big problem with the top 6. But that issue has taken a back seat, for me, to my impression that the bottom six is a total liability. NYI won't be able to remain competitive for long with close to zero contributions from the bottom six. No solution is in sight.

Well I hope so. We'll see.

 

[Rehabguy]

Barzal oozes edgework and the ability to hold onto the puck. It just hasn't really translated into scoring. What took 8 years to finally get through his skull is that playing more of a north-south game and trusting his shot is benefitting the team more. Maybe that's the biggest benefit of having Bo Horvat here.

I don't know. Barzal's game was built around his edge work and his ability to get the opposing D out of position but Trotz system required the polar opposite. It required structure and Barzal's dipsy doodling threw Trotz system off so he basically instructed Barzal to stop circling around in the opposing D because it put our own players out of position. I think there were many occasions when our own players didn't know what was going on. From what I remember Barzal was able to turn an otherwise lost game into a win by mixing it up. That element has been completely lost in the Isles overall game so we watched close playoff series lost by the Isles holding onto one goal leads and not taking any chances when they needed a goal badly.

For most teams their superstars were given more (but not all) leeway to do what they do best but in Barzal's case as I mentioned before it looks like he was reprogrammed to be just another drone. I think the best teams were always playing to win- which is the way Barzal played (in the past tense) the game. Barzal used to play the game with the mindset to make things happen, to create opportunities- with his skating. Trotz and Lambert's system is about waiting for things to happen. Waiting for opportunities. Waiting for mistakes. Playing it safe. It seems from the several years of watching the Trotz/Lambert system in action that it was a system designed get the players to play not to lose by waiting (and waiting) and it has in the big picture failed more than it has succeeded especially when the Cup is on the line. Playing not to lose is never a good strategy.

 

[saintunspecified]

Well I hope so. We'll see.

If you haven't seen, I don't know what impressions will change your mind. He's been fine defensively, and he's been good at ES offensively. The line at ES has been very good - even with a replacement level winger opposite Barzal. The PP is another story. I realize Barzal scored a PP goal, and it is obvious to me that he's worked a ton on his PP game, but even so I'm not convinced his shot will open up that side of the ice.

 

[MJF]

I don't know. Barzal's game was built around his edge work and his ability to get the opposing D out of position but Trotz system required the polar opposite. It required structure and Barzal's dipsy doodling threw Trotz system off so he basically instructed Barzal to stop circling around in the opposing D because it put our own players out of position. I think there were many occasions when our own players didn't know what was going on. From what I remember Barzal was able to turn an otherwise lost game into a win by mixing it up. That element has been completely lost in the Isles overall game so we watched close playoff series lost by the Isles holding onto one goal leads and not taking any chances when they needed a goal badly.

For most teams their superstars were given more (but not all) leeway to do what they do best but in Barzal's case as I mentioned before it looks like he was reprogrammed to be just another drone. I think the best teams were always playing to win- which is the way Barzal played (in the past tense) the game. Barzal used to play the game with the mindset to make things happen, to create opportunities. Trotz and Lambert's system is about waiting for things to happen. Waiting for opportunities. Waiting for mistakes. It seems from the several years of watching the Trotz/Lambert system in action that it was a system designed get the players to play not to lose by waiting (and waiting) and it has in the big picture failed more than it has succeeded especially when the Cup is on the line. Playing not to lose is never a good strategy.

NHL teams are not 22+1. If you want Barzal to play the way you described, send him to Da Beauty League in the summer.

 

[Rehabguy]

If you haven't seen, I don't know what impressions will change your mind. He's been fine defensively, and he's been good at ES offensively. The line at ES has been very good - even with a replacement level winger opposite Barzal. The PP is another story. I realize Barzal scored a PP goal, and it is obvious to me that he's worked a ton on his PP game, but even so I'm not convinced his shot will open up that side of the ice.

My impression thus far and since I've seen Horvat and Barzal together is that it's not really clicking yet. Our team's offense has been driven by the Nelson line as soon as Engvall was added to that line. I still don't see the same chemistry on the Horvat line. Especially for a line the Isles have constructed with a large part of its salary budget. They still seem out of sync save for a couple of lucky goals from Horvat against the Sabres. Barzal has been relatively invisible. Just another winger. But I'm willing to give it more time. Maybe tonight is the night.

 

[saintunspecified]

My impression thus far and since I've seen Horvat and Barzal together is that it's not really clicking yet.

If by clicking you mean finishing. Otherwise Horvat has tended to be where Barzal has expected him to be. He's had his chances, and imo should have buried 1-2 more.

 

[MJF]

If by clicking you mean finishing. Otherwise Horvat has tended to be where Barzal has expected him to be. He's had his chances, and imo should have buried 1-2 more.

That’s much of the problem with this team the last few years. They don’t finish their chances.

 

[NC 1972]

Put Barzal on the Devils and let him play HIS game and then see how he stacks up against Hughes. Hughes would not have the same point production if he was playing on the Isles as well. For the Isles current system to work there had to be a trade off and that's in it's offensive production. I just think they are stifling Barzal natural instincts far too much in favor of defense.

You add Barzal's edge work to the Devil's game and they would be totally unstoppable. The Isles have totally destroyed what this kid can bring to the game. They've kept him on a team playing the most boring system in the league. What a waste.

Does he have speed, can he skate is he good on his edges yes, and is this team devoid of skill yes. But if that video show us anything it's Barzal's inability to penetrate the perimeter, even when it appears he's coming inside he retreats to the boards and plays keep away. On the Devils he'd certainly have better numbers but lets make something clear, IMO Jack Hughes is a better player and is more creative as well.

 

[PK Cronin]

The opposition has also adjusted to Barzal, knowing he'll just stay on the perimeter and never shoot. That's a huge part of his problem when it comes to production. Hughes is trying to find ways to get into prime scoring positions. Barzal is trying to just hold onto the puck to pass it off to someone else at the perfect moment. That's been his problem and continues to be a problem (though less so this year after four games). Since he's come into the league it has changed pretty significantly. There are more players similar to Barzal than ever before and teams are more accustomed to seeing them. He needs to adjust his game and fans need to stop making excuses for him.

 

[Lame Lambert]

We will be competitive all year. As suspected the team won't be the best or the worst. Stay healthy and give the fans perhaps a round or two. That's all I got. Enjoy the weekend fellas.

Do we want a round or two or do we want a cup at some point?

 

[MJF]

Do we want a round or two or do we want a cup at some point?

I’m tired of the Islanders being mediocre.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Do we want a round or two or do we want a cup at some point?

What does that have to do with what he wrote?

 

[Lame Lambert]

What does that have to do with what he wrote?

Do I really need to spell that one out for you Doshell?

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Do I really need to spell that one out for you Doshell?

Yes please.

 

[Lame Lambert]

Yes please.

Competitive is not “giving the fans perhaps a round or two”, unless your definition of competitive is first round fodder.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Competitive is not “giving the fans perhaps a round or two”, unless your definition of competitive is first round fodder.

Competitive is a subjective term. Don't get hung up on semantics. His analysis of the team was spot on. Fans "wanting" a cup is irrelevant.

 

[MJF]

Competitive is not “giving the fans perhaps a round or two”, unless your definition of competitive is first round fodder.

Remeber, the Islanders don't have to be good. They just have to be good enough.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Remeber, the Islanders don't have to be good. They just have to be good enough.

Give it a rest already.

 

[leeroggy]

That’s much of the problem with this team the last few years. They don’t finish their chances.

Just like me on Friday and Saturday night

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Just like me on Friday and Saturday night

Heeey ohh!

 

[Lame Lambert]

Competitive is a subjective term. Don't get hung up on semantics. His analysis of the team was spot on. Fans "wanting" a cup is irrelevant.

Competetive is not subjective. All 32 teams compete to win the Stanley Cup.

 

[mm11]

Do we want a round or two or do we want a cup at some point?

Would like to experience another cup my friend. The team could give us a round or two perhaps. Hope I'm wrong