GDT: GDT #12 New York Islanders @ Boston Bruins | November 9th | 7 PM | F/5-2 L

Satan'sIsland81

Registered User
Feb 9, 2007
8,162
3,583
Amazing. Lee couldn't do the one thing that Engvall does better than most. Goal number 4 make a play on the wall and get us out of the zone. At least that's what I remember.

Isles 0-4 when they don't score first. (NHL Network)
Outshot 9-3 to start the game. (Butch)
PK close to bottom 3rd in the league
2nd worst in the league shot allowed - let that sink in
Complete antithesis of Trotz team.

They are not prepared for puck drop. At all. The last 4 games have been a nightmare first 5 - 10 minutes. - Head coach.

I guess Lambert will blame Bolduc for misplaying the 2-1 after the turnover. Kinda funny but Romanov made the exact same mistake after the Engvall turnover. Eerily similar to Aho several games back after his partner stepped up and he was left with a short 2-1. Coincidence? Two young defenseman - no coaching. Same BS with Salo last year. Aho is horrible but perhaps he would do better with some NHL level coaching.

Playing Fasching over Engvall was inexcusable. Just unacceptable. Not a single even strength goal and not many threats. He disbanded the first line after 4 (?) games even though the plan throughout camp was put Barzal on the left wing. Benching Holmstrom for that Devil game was ridiculous. Breaking up the Nelson line just another stupid decision.

Not sure if he is still recovering or just (shocking!) out of shape but my god, Wahlstrom can't get through a shift. He plays the big mans game. Stick handle and shoot. Not much else. Against a somewhat plodding Wild team he survives. Not many of those out there. I think he was winded from getting up after he fell down in the first. Had to go sit on the bench. Wow. Fasching is a 13th forward. That 3rd line spot is where Wahlstrom and Lee belong. With Palmieri replacing Lee on the 1st, Lambert is looking at Lee on the 3rd line and no special teams. I guess that might be tough to sell.

Pretty sure we were losing when Engvall turned the puck over against the Wild. Is that where that accountability starts? At 3-2? Or a scapegoat for a mediocre coaching staff.
I agree with just about everything in this post, especially the bolded part. I was giving Lambert the benefit of the doubt but he is losing me now based on stuff like the bolded above.
The lines on this team should be
Barzal - Horvat - Holmstrom
Engvall - Nelson - Palmieri
Lee - Pageau - Wahlstrom
Martin - Cizikas - Clutterbuck
and keep them together with no stupid changes for at least 10-15 games and see where we are (other than the occasional swapping in of Gauthier for someone on the third or fourth line).
 
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MJF

Hope is not a strategy
Sep 6, 2003
27,061
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NYC
I haven't read the thread so I don't know what the concerns are but I thought they dictated play for long stretches. Sloppy passing, as usual, but I don't recall much that was horrific (other than Wahlstrom and Pageau).

Keep in mind, I did watch it at 1am and might've been delirious.
Sloppy passing, poor execution, cement hands....whatever anyone wants to call it, has been a peeve of mine with this core for years. They are unable to do the basics well on a consistent basis. It kills this team in so many aspects of the game, be it breakouts, power plays, cycling in the offensive zone. Low skill level. It's an old story.

Dictating play for long stretches is fine but being unable to finish scoring chances makes it all for naught. Goals matter too and we just don't score them. Credit the Islanders for playing well at times but not well enough, so they lose the credit.
 

Torrey Redux

Please!
Apr 25, 2022
374
297
Philadelphia, PA
I mentioned after they fired Trots that the run is over for this generation and it’s time to retool. I’m guessing Lou wanted to try to keep the team competitive because of the new arena and ticket sales. The team is old slow and gets outplayed on most nights now. If not for the goaltending this would be one of the worst teams in the nhl.
The Run?! The "run" was one over-achieving season culminating in a second round sweep followed by a few years of Covid-enabled illusion.
 

Tres Peleches

Johnny Turncoat
Jul 13, 2011
8,412
6,764
The Run?! The "run" was one over-achieving season culminating in a second round sweep followed by a few years of Covid-enabled illusion.
Say what you will, but this core played under the same conditions everyone else did and got within one and two games of going to the SC finals, and lost to a f***-nut Lightning team that played a masterclass in legal cap circumvention
 

Sparksrus3

Registered User
Jun 2, 2012
10,032
4,910
Healthy scratch the Captain, eh?


Interesting move

this will go on all season when your team will finish 35-35-12 .
OH THE MADNESS



IMG_7286.jpeg
 
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NC 1972

Registered User
Dec 8, 2017
1,422
820
Say what you will, but this core played under the same conditions everyone else did and got within one and two games of going to the SC finals, and lost to a f***-nut Lightning team that played a masterclass in legal cap circumvention
To quote Don Ameche " Things change"
 

80shockeywasbuns

Registered User
Feb 12, 2022
1,271
2,212
Engvall-Nelson-Palmieri was putting up a 62% xGF and is 5th in the NHL in xGF/60 among all lines w >50 min TOI. They are tilting the ice and generating an insane amount of offense.

WTF did Engvall have to be held accountable for? Playing really well on one of the best lines in the league? I thought the whole point of accountability was that you demote players who are playing poorly in order to make the team better, regardless of their status or tenure with the team. Not just arbitrarily choosing one mistake to punish.
 

benedictTavares

JT's PJ's'
Jan 15, 2013
3,161
2,695
Scottsdale
This season has all the makings of an old school islander dumpster fire. Someone kidnap Lou so he does not have the opportunity to trade our 1st rounder.
 

JBHockey

Registered User
Mar 12, 2012
363
264
Sunnyvale Trailer Park
Sloppy passing, poor execution, cement hands....whatever anyone wants to call it, has been a peeve of mine with this core for years. They are unable to do the basics well on a consistent basis. It kills this team in so many aspects of the game, be it breakouts, power plays, cycling in the offensive zone. Low skill level. It's an old story.

Dictating play for long stretches is fine but being unable to finish scoring chances makes it all for naught. Goals matter too and we just don't score them. Credit the Islanders for playing well at times but not well enough, so they lose the credit.

I completely agree. Their inability to simply make a pass out of the zone is baffling. It's like everyone is turning into Bailey making soft passes to the other team. I don't know what you call this system that they are trying to play is, but it's ass backwards.
 
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redbull

Boss
Mar 24, 2008
12,593
654
Adding is cool but at some point we’re going to have to start getting rid of the guys who aren’t scoring
Getting rid of is one part.
Replacing them with better or a combo of younger and better is tougher. If not impossible.
 
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Throttle

Registered User
Sep 22, 2020
5,476
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And the
Healthy scratch the Captain, eh?


Interesting move
And the reason, fans are fans and not GMs or coaches…

I agree with just about everything in this post, especially the bolded part. I was giving Lambert the benefit of the doubt but he is losing me now based on stuff like the bolded above.
The lines on this team should be
Barzal - Horvat - Holmstrom
Engvall - Nelson - Palmieri
Lee - Pageau - Wahlstrom
Martin - Cizikas - Clutterbuck
and keep them together with no stupid changes for at least 10-15 games and see where we are (other than the occasional swapping in of Gauthier for someone on the third or fourth line).
Is this the 80’s? Teams RARELY keep lines together for more than a few periods, let alone games.
 

Rehabguy

Always open minded
Oct 2, 2011
5,077
1,934
Sloppy passing, poor execution, cement hands....whatever anyone wants to call it, has been a peeve of mine with this core for years. They are unable to do the basics well on a consistent basis. It kills this team in so many aspects of the game, be it breakouts, power plays, cycling in the offensive zone. Low skill level. It's an old story.
This is all a natural result of a system that emphasizes chess-like defense above all else. There's no such thing as players "getting into the zone" or "playing by instinct" it's all orchestrated and telegraphed. This is the hockey equivalent of Brad Gilbert's "winning ugly" when it comes to the offensive side of the game. Heavy forecheck. Smash the other player. See if he can cough up the puck and ram the puck into the opponent's goal. Other than that, everything else is focused on defense. So using your talents and offensive abilities was/is never practiced under Lambert or Trotz. It's all about defensive play. Structure. Discipline. Being in formation.

Anyone who has played any sports knows you need to be "in the zone" and at times "playing by instinct" with feel, being loose and relaxed if you are going to pull off good passing, good execution, having more than just cement hands and most importantly NOT making mistakes that you normally would not make. When you play too tight, too self conscious, you are going to make mistakes and cough up the puck. "Creating" offense (there's a word we having heard in a long time.) YES there needs to be some structure but this system that Lambert and Trotz deployed on this franchise stifled any of the natural offensive abilities of our talented players. They don't want our players doing any of this stuff. So when one of our more talented speed skaters Engvall makes a rare for himself, but egregious mistake in our defensive zone Lambert inexplicably benches the guy ignoring all the good things this player has done for the team the other 10 games entering the season. It's so head scratching he would bench such a player when there are many others not playing well at all. But this is Lambert, so am I surprised? He is completely out of touch when it comes to group dynamics and tearing apart this team's offensive core starting last season with the exiling of Josh Bailey which I'm sure is having a negative effect on his friend and same aged Anders Lee who looks lost this season.

Lambert and his system destroys the confidence of any of our offensively gifted players starting most notably with Barzal. Barzal is THE engine behind this team's offense. We've been lucky to see some of that brilliance he displayed his rookie year this past couple of games or so but he has been shown that brilliance because under Trotz and Lambert I am almost positive they told him not to do this stuff. What made him decide to start playing with god given talents these past couple of games I don't know (I would like to think that he read a few of my posts recently but probably not), but I'm glad to see it. It is clear to me he still has it but the team clearly needs a new coach who knows how to use his natural talents correctly. And for all those who don't see Barzal as one of the leagues top offensive players please watch something else because you don't know what you are talking about. The problem was never Barzal, it's the system that was forced down his throat that's keeping him in a straight jacket but what we've seen the past few games clearly shows what he's still capable of. I'd like to think that he's completely tuned out Lambert and is going to do what he wants to do (which he should) so that Lambert predictably benches him for it and get's himself fired in the process.

So in a nutshell if you want to see solid offense from this team, a better and looser more effective power play from this team you got to shelf the current system which means you need to shelf Lambert. As I've said many posts this season, let the players be athletes. They are not pawns on a chessboard. The head coach job is to guide not control the players. Let them practice and utilize their god-given talents. Right now they are so off their game it's a terrible thing to watch. This team looks like it has completely lost its identity because the players are not sure what to do. They want to play loose in a system and coach that puts them in a chokehold if they don't play by the rules. My god get off their backs and let them play their game.
 
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Metnut

Registered User
Jan 19, 2013
1,033
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Barzal - Horvat - Holmstrom
Engvall - Nelson - Palmieri
Ishkatov - Pageau - Wahlstrom
Gauthier - Cizikas - Clutterbuck
 

NYI365

Let's Go Islanders!
Jun 5, 2011
3,209
2,165
Merrick, NY
Barzal -Horvat-Wahlstrom
Engvall-Nelson-Palmieri
Holmstrom -Pageau-Fasching
Lee-Cizikas-Clutterbuck

Martin
Gauthier

It is time.
 
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The Wahligator

Registered User
Nov 27, 2015
3,813
4,819
Long Island
Barzal -Horvat-Wahlstrom
Engvall-Nelson-Palmieri
Holmstrom -Pageau-Fasching
Lee-Cizikas-Clutterbuck

Martin
Gauthier

It is time.
I think ideally you’d have Holmstrom on the top line but Wahlstrom would kill the identity of the third line so this is what I’d go with as well.
 
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Rehabguy

Always open minded
Oct 2, 2011
5,077
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Barzal - Horvat - Holmstrom
Engvall - Nelson - Palmieri
Ishkatov - Pageau - Wahlstrom
Gauthier - Cizikas - Clutterbuck
Different line-up. Same results. If you don't take care of the core problem (the system and Lambert) it doesn't matter what line-up you put out there. It's doomed to fail. This is like trying to put a band-aid over a cut that needs to be sutured. It might stop the bleeding for a moment but if you don't suture it eventually you're going to bleed to death.

To be clear "the system" might have worked and got you some level of success when deployed properly and by a coach (Trotz) who knew what he was doing but lets face it, we really never had in the end any real success with it and it failed the team when they needed it the most. Time for an overhaul.
 
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Rehabguy

Always open minded
Oct 2, 2011
5,077
1,934
Under Trotz they never taught or practiced offense and the same thing persists under Lambert. They assumed all players knew how to play offense well, how to pass well, how to break out well and lead a rush. Al Arbour always practiced these things. The Islanders passing was always so crisp and precise because it was practiced over and over again in practice. Specific offense zone plays were practiced as well along with the PP which under Arbour was almost always the best in the league especially during the dynasty years. Under Lambert and Trotz they just tell the players, "when you have the puck you do what you do, when they have the puck you do what we tell you to do" It's all about teaching defense with Lambert. He has no clue how to teach offense nor does he practice it. That's why out power play has sucked so bad for 5 years now.

Matthew Barzal "do what you do"

Alex Ovechkin "do what you do"

The longer you let a team's offensive skills deteriorate the quicker their offensive output will fail. It's not as simple as doing what you do. Sometimes you have to practice offense.
 
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scottywiper

Registered User
Dec 2, 2018
8,555
4,527
It's gonna be a long year....
I was pumped for this season. But even though they've won a few games they've actually not played well at all.
Their most recent win was the Capitals and lord only knows how they stole that as they were barely in possession most of the game.
The signs are bad.
 
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PK Cronin

Bailey Fan Club Prez
Feb 11, 2013
34,247
23,594
Under Trotz they never taught or practiced offense and the same thing persists under Lambert. They assumed all players knew how to play offense well, how to pass well, how to break out well and lead a rush. Al Arbour always practiced these things. The Islanders passing was always so crisp and precise because it was practiced over and over again in practice. Specific offense zone plays were practiced as well along with the PP which under Arbour was almost always the best in the league especially during the dynasty years. Under Lambert and Trotz they just tell the players, "when you have the puck you do what you do, when they have the puck you do what we tell you to do" It's all about teaching defense with Lambert. He has no clue how to teach offense nor does he practice it. That's why out power play has sucked so bad for 5 years now.

Matthew Barzal "do what you do"

Alex Ovechkin "do what you do"

The longer you let a team's offensive skills deteriorate the quicker their offensive output will fail. It's not as simple as doing what you do. Sometimes you have to practice offense.

So you want them to play with instinct, except not.
 
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Lek

Registered User
Nov 25, 2006
1,995
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Raleigh
This is a team that plays backward, which is to say, as they head up the ice they are always receiving passes looking back into the defensive zone, then turning and dumping.

We do not head up the ice making passes to each other and rarely skate the puck, with possession, into the zone unless your name is Matt Barzal, and that is done as an individual effort not a team effort as opposed to what most teams seem to do repeatedly to us.

We dump in, chase, and then chase the opposition out of their zone as they skate into ours.

This is coaching, this is system and this is a piss poor way to play hockey.
 

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