GDT: GDT #11 Minnesota Wild vs New York Islanders | November 7th | 7:30 PM | F/4-2 L

[PK Cronin]

This game score got spoiled in my notifications about twenty minutes before i was going to watch it so i shut it off after the last goal. I'm still glad i watched what i did as it was a decent hockey game in general. The PP again is stopping us from winning games. It looks better, but that's not saying much.

Does Palmeiri have vertigo? Why does he seem to spend so much time on his ass? He falls constantly. It's driving me nuts. It seems every time he uses his edge to get past someone he still ends up blowing out.

I thought the same thing about Palmieri, it seems like he can't stay on his skates these days.

 

[periferal]

‘Cause don’t really see the purpose of firing the GM mid season. That’s not gonna change much. Maybe the new GM will start selling off the scrubs with no cap space in the league? Oh, he’ll protect the vaunted 2024 first rounder (weak draft btw).

Maybe the issue is some of the drafted players invested in aren’t worth their ticket no matter the coach?

The GM can replace the coach and see how the on ice game plan goes for the remaining 70 games…

Ha. You don't see a reason to fire Lou mid-season or any GM mid-season? If a GM is putting your franchise in a worse position with each passing move you should let him continue on in that post until end of season...As opposed to getting a jump on the hiring market and installing a new/better GM ASAP so he can be more prepared for the upcoming offseason/draft?

Perhaps you don't remember back to 2019 when Oilers GM Peter Chiarelli gave Mikko Koskinen a ludicrous contract extension putting the Oilers in a much worse goaltending and cap situation. A week later Chiarelli was fired, but every Oilers fan wishes he was fired before the Koskinen extension.

If a GM isn't doing the job you get them out ASAP so they can't do further damage and you can start taking steps towards fixing things.

It’s all revisionist history, Boston should have taken Barzal too. Every team drafts busts and has steals.

Yup, but the ones that get it right are the ones winning Cups.

 

[Throttle]

Ha. You don't see a reason to fire Lou mid-season or any GM mid-season? If a GM is putting your franchise in a worse position with each passing move you should let him continue on in that post until end of season...As opposed to getting a jump on the hiring market and installing a new/better GM ASAP so he can be more prepared for the upcoming offseason/draft?

Perhaps you don't remember back to 2019 when Oilers GM Peter Chiarelli gave Mikko Koskinen a ludicrous contract extension putting the Oilers in a much worse goaltending and cap situation. A week later Chiarelli was fired, but every Oilers fan wishes he was fired before the Koskinen extension.

If a GM isn't doing the job you get them out ASAP so they can't do further damage and you can start taking steps towards fixing things.




Yup, but the ones that get it right are the ones winning Cups.

Do you remember when Holland signed Jack Campbell to a long term deal in 2022? Sure those fans are happy about that one…and the GM seems to be employed right now.

Do you remember the GM that let a sc winning coach leave, to put in place a career assistant as the coach? Oh, fires that guy, get another coach that ‘mutually separated’ and signed Tom Wilson to a Dilpietro contract? Oh, he seems employed too.

Hey, what about that guy that signed some goalie named Cal Peterson leaving them no cap space to improve their goaltending even after he was dumped on Philly? Still employed…

You fire a guy like Dorian asap because of his bonehead move and overall lack of improvement since he started.

No one is making a shakeup trade 15 games into the season. The Isles have little ‘assets’ to sell for the new GM to ‘put his/her mark on the team this season. He can (a) fire Lambert, (b) make a trade in the winter, or (c) let it ride for the year.

The Isles are 16th in the league. Look at the coaches of the teams above them, absent the Ducks and Wings (both will fade to lotto land), each team has veteran coaches.

Firing lambert most likely gets you a ‘retread’ vs some newbie that’s gonna suck as much as Lambert is currently doing. So, who are the names to replace Lambert?

 

[periferal]

Do you remember when Holland signed Jack Campbell to a long term deal in 2022? Sure those fans are happy about that one…and the GM seems to be employed right now.

Do you remember the GM that let a sc winning coach leave, to put in place a career assistant as the coach? Oh, fires that guy, get another coach that ‘mutually separated’ and signed Tom Wilson to a Dilpietro contract? Oh, he seems employed too.

Hey, what about that guy that signed some goalie named Cal Peterson leaving them no cap space to improve their goaltending even after he was dumped on Philly? Still employed…

Not sure what this ramble is about. Your original point was, "Cause don’t really see the purpose of firing the GM mid season." To me that's just insane. No matter how terrible a GM is, or how long he's been on the job, let's give him to the end of the year so he can...Continue to make mistakes. Nice.

 

[Throttle]

Not sure what this ramble is about. Your original point was, "Cause don’t really see the purpose of firing the GM mid season." To me that's just insane. No matter how terrible a GM is, or how long he's been on the job, let's give him to the end of the year so he can...Continue to make mistakes. Nice.

Or, let’s give him the season to, I don’t know, let it play out. When the owners make a move you’ll know and you can jump for joy.

I’d rather trade the $9M figure skater asap and fire Lambert asap and bring in Q before tossing out Lou 15 games in.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Or, let’s give him the season to, I don’t know, let it play out. When the owners make a move you’ll know and you can jump for joy.

I’d rather trade the $9M figure skater asap and fire Lambert asap and bring in Q before tossing out Lou 15 games in.

You are making two different arguments:
1. Don't fire a GM midseason
2. Don't fire LL

It's fine if you want to argue the second, but Periferal thinks your first argument is absurd and I agree. If you want to fire your GM, just do it. Don't wait until the offseason. Nothing wrong with firing a bad GM 15 games or 60 games in. If he's bad, he's bad and you do it when you want.

 

[Throttle]

You are making two different arguments:
1. Don't fire a GM midseason
2. Don't fire LL

It's fine if you want to argue the second, but Periferal thinks your first argument is absurd and I agree. If you want to fire your GM, just do it. Don't wait until the offseason. Nothing wrong with firing a bad GM 15 games or 60 games in. If he's bad, he's bad and you do it when you want.

Except, he’s not bad.

And yes, if I’m Malkin, I’m not firing Lou until the offseason, if he’s fired anyway.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Except, he’s not bad.

And yes, if I’m Malkin, I’m not firing Lou until the offseason, if he’s fired anyway.

I don't know who "he" is here. We aren't talking about LL. We are talking about 'a GM' like Periferal stated. If you have a GM that is terrible, you can fire him any time in the season. There is no reason to wait. Again, two things we are talking about. Forget the LL debate, I'm purely talking about your claim that you shouldn't fire 'a GM' midseason, or 15 games in. That's just silly. You should fire them whenever you feel like you need to replace them.

 

[Throttle]

I don't know who "he" is here. We aren't talking about LL. We are talking about 'a GM' like Periferal stated. If you have a GM that is terrible, you can fire him any time in the season. There is no reason to wait. Again, two things we are talking about. Forget the LL debate, I'm purely talking about your claim that you shouldn't fire 'a GM' midseason, or 15 games in. That's just silly. You should fire them whenever you feel like you need to replace them.

The Isles current GM is not terrible. So, yeah, there’s no reason to fire that GM.

If the GM was that terrible, then why go into the season to start with? If you wanna fire a GM because it makes you feel good, then go for it and fire them when you want.

And Malkin already showed his hand, when did he hire Lou? When was Snow banished? Malkin doesn’t make rash-fan like decisions.

 

[MJF]

Except, he’s not bad.

And yes, if I’m Malkin, I’m not firing Lou until the offseason, if he’s fired anyway.

The GM is not getting the job done anymore. You don't allow him to make a coaching change and you don't wait until the offseason to fire him. You fire him now before he has a chance to set the team back any further....both on AND off the ice.

If the GM was that terrible, then why go into the season to start with? If you wanna fire a GM because it makes you feel good, then go for it and fire them when you want.

Complacency has set in in the owner's suite. A hands-off attitude with Lou and hockey ops has gotten out of hand. They're all guilty of resting on the laurels of the 2 semi-final appearances and the opening of UBS Arena.

 

[saintunspecified]

Didn't think they played too bad in this one, sans the penalties (which is obviously big). Barzal, Dobson, and Holmstrom all had strong games. Aho and Wahlstrom weren't good again but that's nothing new. Thought they took the puck to the net a lot and were pretty sound defensively most of the night.

The penalties and the bonehead play by Engvall were the real negatives.

My apologies if the has already been discussed. I only got to watch highlights.

I'm not saying Engvall made a good play, or that they might have won the game, but it sure looked like Maroon tugged Engvall's hands with his stick twice on that play. In lacrosse that's a good check, but isn't it a penalty in hockey?

One could argue about Romanov's positioning on the PK, but not that he had no business following Pulock behind the net on the first goal. I noticed Pageau communicating his man, but one would think that Romanov knows how to count to three. If you're outnumbered, you don't cover the guy below the goal line.

The obvious mistakes, and penalties are things that relate to coaching, or coachability.

 

[leeroggy]

My apologies if the has already been discussed. I only got to watch highlights.

I'm not saying Engvall made a good play, or that they might have won the game, but it sure looked like Maroon tugged Engvall's hands with his stick twice on that play. In lacrosse that's a good check, but isn't it a penalty in hockey?

One could argue about Romanov's positioning on the PK, but not that he had no business following Pulock behind the net on the first goal. I noticed Pageau communicating his man, but one would think that Romanov knows how to count to three. If you're outnumbered, you don't cover the guy below the goal line.

The obvious mistakes, and penalties are things that relate to coaching, or coachability.

Does your 23-year-old son (obviously an assumption) listen to everything you imparted to them? You coached them to be polite, respectful, financially smart, etc.,

Then he blows $100 at the blackjack table.

To think that coaching is the be all and end all to this is wishful thinking. Or as it has been said forever, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them take a drink. ELEVEN YEARS of being Barry's assistant and everyone thinks Lane is doing everything completely different. Romanov and Dobson are 23, Bolduc is 22. We're still in the growing pains period, whether it is Lane or Al Arbour behind the bench. Are you going to argue Romanov is the same or worse than the beginning of last season? No, he's a lot better and is still learning more. Dobson has taken a huge leap up, UNDER LANE, but no one tries to give that credit. You can't argue both sides and be accurate.

 

[MJF]

One could argue about Romanov's positioning on the PK, but not that he had no business following Pulock behind the net on the first goal. I noticed Pageau communicating his man, but one would think that Romanov knows how to count to three. If you're outnumbered, you don't cover the guy below the goal line.

The obvious mistakes, and penalties are things that relate to coaching, or coachability.

In Lambert’s presser yesterday after practice he talked about having to get back to basics in D zone coverages and spent a good portion of the practice drilling on that. I fjnd it disturbing that after 11 games we’ve already gotten away from what he set out before the season started.

I don’t think this is because of a difficult sceheme. I think it’s due to our lack of speed and ability to move the puck quickly. Our opponents get down the ice quickly, set up in their O zone, causing us to react slow-sometimes it looks like we’re second guessing. The more the opponent forces us, the more they are able to make offensive plays. We make mistakes in coverages, turnovers, or take penalties because we are behind the play.

Lambert identifying the problem is one thing, but he can’t drill them into being a quicker team. We don’t have those horses. We never did. The league got faster and more skilled, we didn’t.

 

[leeroggy]

In Lambert’s presser yesterday after practice he talked about having to get back to basics in D zone coverages and spent a good portion of the practice drilling on that. I fjnd it disturbing that after 11 games we’ve already gotten away from what he set out before the season started.

I don’t think this is because of a difficult sceheme. I think it’s due to our lack of speed and ability to move the puck quickly. Our opponents get down the ice quickly, set up in their O zone, causing us to react slow-sometimes it looks like we’re second guessing. The more the opponent forces us, the more they are able to make offensive plays. We make mistakes in coverages, turnovers, or take penalties because we are behind the play.

Lambert identifying the problem is one thing, but he can’t drill them into being a quicker team. We don’t have those horses. We never did. The league got faster and more skilled, we didn’t.

Yet you laughed at this when I wrote it . . .

"Our defense is not getting in trouble because of the system, it's getting in trouble when it tries to stickhandle too much deep in their own end. Just focus the next game while watching the play below the hashmarks. We used to wind the puck around a lot more with the outlet on the boards. A turnover on the high board is a lot less risky. Also, the league has caught on to how often we are trying to make a pressure-relieving pass to our stationary defender in the middle and are jumping the passing lane (and that was also a part of BT's system for breakouts; it's amazing to me that so many of you think our 'system' in the defensive zone is so much different now when it really is just the younger, less experienced defenders struggling to execute it)."

Two years ago, we started both Greene and Chara; that's even less speed and stickhandling than now. Growing pains are growing pains. The learning curve is real here. Lane did not sleep through 11 years with Barry, he just has to deal with the learning curve, while Barry just kept sheltering/benching the kids. It might have helped win more in the short run, but at some point, you have to face reality with the transition to younger players.

Unfortunately, many here can't accept that and want to blow everything up . . .

 

[MJF]

Yet you laughed at this when I wrote it . . .

"Our defense is not getting in trouble because of the system, it's getting in trouble when it tries to stickhandle too much deep in their own end. Just focus the next game while watching the play below the hashmarks. We used to wind the puck around a lot more with the outlet on the boards. A turnover on the high board is a lot less risky. Also, the league has caught on to how often we are trying to make a pressure-relieving pass to our stationary defender in the middle and are jumping the passing lane (and that was also a part of BT's system for breakouts; it's amazing to me that so many of you think our 'system' in the defensive zone is so much different now when it really is just the younger, less experienced defenders struggling to execute it)."

Two years ago, we started both Greene and Chara; that's even less speed and stickhandling than now. Growing pains are growing pains. The learning curve is real here. Lane did not sleep through 11 years with Barry, he just has to deal with the learning curve, while Barry just kept sheltering/benching the kids. It might have helped win more in the short run, but at some point, you have to face reality with the transition to younger players.

Unfortunately, many here can't accept that and want to blow everything up . . .

I laughed at the straws you were grasping when it came to Mat Barzal. I stopped reading after that. Just like I stopped reading this post.

 

[Osakahaus]

They benched Engvall for today after that turnover.

 

[leeroggy]

I laughed at the straws you were grasping when it came to Mat Barzal. I stopped reading after that.

What straws? Pointing out historical data is a straw to you? Seriously? He's gone from 2.4 SOG per game last year to 3.7 this year. EXACTLY what you and so many others were BEGGING FOR, to shoot more. He keeps up that pace and he will get on a roll at some point.

They benched Engvall for today after that turnover.

Not just that turnover, he's been off for the last 5 games.

From yesterday, which was laughed at:

Nelson 5G/2A on 40 SOGs
Palmieri 3G/5A on 24 SOGs
Engvall 0G/6A on 9 SOGs
It's not hard to see why that line cooled off
When Horvat is back I would put Holmstrom on the 2nd line to see if that changes the dynamic. It's pretty easy to see the other team is shading Nelson and Palmieri and not taking Engvall shooting seriously. Holmstrom is starting to get it on shooting and could very well be the better fit.

Well, all of you wanted accountability, now you're getting it.

 

[NC 1972]

Or, let’s give him the season to, I don’t know, let it play out. When the owners make a move you’ll know and you can jump for joy.

I’d rather trade the $9M figure skater asap and fire Lambert asap and bring in Q before tossing out Lou 15 games in.

I think the Barzal watch is on for sure ,why else would they put off the no trade clause for a year.
So should he not live up to the contracts expectations what can we expect? Especially if they are in a playoff position?

 

[NC 1972]

In Lambert’s presser yesterday after practice he talked about having to get back to basics in D zone coverages and spent a good portion of the practice drilling on that. I fjnd it disturbing that after 11 games we’ve already gotten away from what he set out before the season started.

I don’t think this is because of a difficult sceheme. I think it’s due to our lack of speed and ability to move the puck quickly. Our opponents get down the ice quickly, set up in their O zone, causing us to react slow-sometimes it looks like we’re second guessing. The more the opponent forces us, the more they are able to make offensive plays. We make mistakes in coverages, turnovers, or take penalties because we are behind the play.

Lambert identifying the problem is one thing, but he can’t drill them into being a quicker team. We don’t have those horses. We never did. The league got faster and more skilled, we didn’t.

This precisely , as previously discussed BT recognized the shortcomings of this team and put in place the proper system for the skillset he inherited. Those who would argue what happened to the team that went to two conference titles are ignoring (A) the loss of players from that roster and (B) Father Time! We are looking at age and injuries that have taken a toll. This is not to say we will be basement dwellers , we will win games and possibly make the playoffs. But we aren't in the discussion when it comes to elite teams. Professional hockey is a speed game you need to process quickly that extra speed buys you time and space and one can't ignore the benefit that gives skilled players.

 

[saintunspecified]

In Lambert’s presser yesterday after practice he talked about having to get back to basics in D zone coverages and spent a good portion of the practice drilling on that. I fjnd it disturbing that after 11 games we’ve already gotten away from what he set out before the season started.

I don’t think this is because of a difficult sceheme.

Schemes are for defemding settled offenses, not for transition defense. Pulock had one F (after losing a battle), and Pageau had the strong side F. Even if Romanov didn't have time to find the weak side forward, the math is pretty easy, and unlike other sports passes in hockey (especially quick ones) are only in two dimensions. If you can't find the man, cover the passing lane. It's not that big an area.

 

[doublechili]

The owners signed off on Lou signing/extending players this summer for tens of millions of dollars over the life of the contracts. If the idea of firing him was anywhere close to being on their radar, they would have done it beforehand. They're not going to fire him now, 11 games into the season. If anyone goes it will be the coach. Lou is a summertime decision.

 

[MJF]

This precisely , as previously discussed BT recognized the shortcomings of this team and put in place the proper system for the skillset he inherited. Those who would argue what happened to the team that went to two conference titles are ignoring (A) the loss of players from that roster and (B) Father Time! We are looking at age and injuries that have taken a toll. This is not to say we will be basement dwellers , we will win games and possibly make the playoffs. But we aren't in the discussion when it comes to elite teams. Professional hockey is a speed game you need to process quickly that extra speed buys you time and space and one can't ignore the benefit that gives skilled players.

Thank you. This pretty much sums up my view. Trotz was not the root of all evil. He installed a system that works with the cards he was dealt. He didn’t inhibit anyone. He got the most out of his players. And Lane Lambert isn’t a Trotz robot. He tried to open things up last year and it didn’t work too well, so by early January we went back to a more defensive system and had more success. This year most of those same players are still here, with several having an age related decline, along with the normally streaky Brock Nelson who is slumping at the moment.

As for Barzal, it’s not just about shot volume. His most dangerous weapon is to shoot coming straight in on the rush. While he is shooting more, since the Detroit game he lapsed back into rink curls and shooting from the outside instead of predominantly driving the net. So regardless of how many more shots he's taking he'll remain streaky because of the way he plays. And when he finally gets on a roll it won't be enough. Same as it ever was.

 

[MJF]

Schemes are for defemding settled offenses, not for transition defense. Pulock had one F (after losing a battle), and Pageau had the strong side F. Even if Romanov didn't have time to find the weak side forward, the math is pretty easy, and unlike other sports passes in hockey (especially quick ones) are only in two dimensions. If you can't find the man, cover the passing lane. It's not that big an area.

If they're losing their poise in transition it's because they are getting rushed by the opponent.

 

[doublechili]

Was Trotz' system much different in NAS or WAS? My recollection is that his teams always played the same way. Granted, he had some offensive talents on WAS - but were they playing an open style at 5v5? I seem to recall Trotz talking about getting those WAS guys to buy in. And they could afford to play a Trotz system at 5v5 because they had Ovi etc. on the PP.

 

[NC 1972]

Thank you. This pretty much sums up my view. Trotz was not the root of all evil. He installed a system that works with the cards he was dealt. He didn’t inhibit anyone. He got the most out of his players. And Lane Lambert isn’t a Trotz robot. He tried to open things up last year and it didn’t work too well, so by early January we went back to a more defensive system and had more success. This year most of those same players are still here, with several having an age related decline, along with the normally streaky Brock Nelson who is slumping at the moment.

As for Barzal, it’s not just about shot volume. His most dangerous weapon is to shoot coming straight in on the rush. While he is shooting more, since the Detroit game he lapsed back into rink curls and shooting from the outside instead of predominantly driving the net. So regardless of how many more shots he's taking he'll remain streaky because of the way he plays. And when he finally gets on a roll it won't be enough. Same as it ever was.
View attachment 765565

Love the Talking Heads reference.