GDT: Game "79": Coyotes @ Stars - 5:30PM - FSAZ+

[Jakey53]

I've definitely seen every other defenseman on this team make similarly bone headed plays as DeAngelo last night. Not to mention there are 4 other Dmen on this team with a higher GA60 for 5on5. I feel like some posters here are a little quick to judge him based on this previous character issues regardless of the fact that he hasn't even played a full NHL season yet. If you watch the post game interview, he basically put the game on his own play, taking 100% of the blame for the loss. The idea that he isn't learning from these mistakes or just doesn't care seems baseless. After the 2nd goal the camera panned to him sitting on the bench noticeably frustrated by his own play.

Correct. I like the way he plays, just has to cool his jets when the whistle blows.

It would seem that way if you haven't heard Tippett discuss his play.

I listened to DT and I did not get that he was frustrated with AD.

 

[Jakey53]

Here's the transcript. Tippett on Tony D (4/4):

"He's a young player that, you know, there's going to be mistakes like that with young players, you just need to find a way to get over them. You know, he's a real competitive kid, he competed hard. Some of those mistakes he's got to learn from."

How exactly does that translate to he isn't learning from his mistakes? or more specifically that he doesn't care? All Tippett said was he needs to learn from them in the future, not that he was failing to learn from his mistakes. Like I said and Tippett he's a young player still in his first year, these mistakes are to be expected.

I still remember Paul Coffey his first year. Oh my! His nick name back in the day was Paul "cough up" Coffey. AD will be fine, he's just a very intense guy that has to learn how to cool it after the whistle blows.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Like I said and Tippett he's a young player still in his first year, these mistakes are to be expected.

That's fine, we'll agree to disagree.

And the same guy said Turris was a better fit lower in the lineup the same year he broke out with Ottawa and only played Dvorak because of injury woes, so I tend to take his evaluation well-salted.

You know, I may not like Tippett's system or his conservative nature, and yes, he has his preferences for the Mosses and Chipchuras of the world. But it's not like Tippett's evaluation in this case is anything we haven't seen for ourselves.

 

[_Del_]

As someone who did not like this trade and who has been outspoken on his doubts about DeAngelo ever becoming an everyday NHLer, I think he's been okay. Not great, but okay. He's played 38 games in the NHL. Will he ever be a top four guy? No idea, but it seems more likely to me today than it did when we made the trade. Young Yandle was terrible by comparison. I'm not sure how after 38 games, some of you sound ready to pull the plug. Deep breaths. Everyone was looking to trade Perlini in October, too. Relax.

 

[Matias Maccete]

I've definitely seen every other defenseman on this team make similarly bone headed plays as DeAngelo last night. Not to mention there are 4 other Dmen on this team with a higher GA60 for 5on5. I feel like some posters here are a little quick to judge him based on this previous character issues regardless of the fact that he hasn't even played a full NHL season yet. If you watch the post game interview, he basically put the game on his own play, taking 100% of the blame for the loss. The idea that he isn't learning from these mistakes or just doesn't care seems baseless. After the 2nd goal the camera panned to him sitting on the bench noticeably frustrated by his own play.

Interesting, I'd like to hear his comments. I most definitely don't want to get rid of DeAngelo, young offensive dmen have growing pains, as others have said think of Yandle early in his career.

 

[rt]

I like DeAngelo. He is one of the team's most skilled and most passionate players. Too often this team both sucks and also doesn't care enough.

 

[_Del_]

Moss retired, man.

Until someone can produce a death certificate, there is still hope.

 

[0point1]

Until someone can produce a death certificate, there is still hope.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Interesting, I'd like to hear his comments. I most definitely don't want to get rid of DeAngelo, young offensive dmen have growing pains, as others have said think of Yandle early in his career.

The difference between DeAngelo and Yandle is that Yandle, for all his cowboy antics on the ice (especially when he was younger), is a smart, smart guy. You can compare Yandle and DeAngelo in terms of offensive skill, but in terms of decision making and attitude they could not be further apart.

 

[Matias Maccete]

The difference between DeAngelo and Yandle is that Yandle, for all his cowboy antics on the ice (especially when he was younger), is a smart, smart guy. You can compare Yandle and DeAngelo in terms of offensive skill, but in terms of decision making and attitude they could not be further apart.

DeAngelo doesn't strike me as unintelligent, just someone who says and does dumb stuff sometimes. Smart enough, but maybe no impulse control. Sometimes those people grow up, sometimes they don't. I think it's too early to say definitively that he'll always have decision making and attitude problems.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

DeAngelo doesn't strike me as unintelligent, just someone who says and does dumb stuff sometimes. Smart enough, but maybe no impulse control. Sometimes those people grow up, sometimes they don't. I think it's too early to say definitively that he'll always have decision making and attitude problems.

Well, I didn't say he'll ALWAYS be like this - although in my experience, people who reach this age with the kind of impulse control issues and bad decision-making under pressure that he has have a hard time breaking from that until they're much older. What I am saying is that the Coyotes may find themselves in the same situation Tampa Bay did, where they are willing to make him expendable even with his offensive gifts in a case where they are seeking a big return. His personality and performance issues will make the decision easier for the team, because there will always be someone out there who sees the offensive skill and believes they can fix the other stuff (see: Nashville and Ribeiro).

 

[_Del_]

Even today Yandle is not a fantastic decision maker. When he was a rookie, it was frightening. Everyone on the board wanted to see him play, and then we all went, "wait, they're planning on entering the season with him taking a regular shift?" He had a decent outlet pass and good straight line speed. Those were literally the only good things on display. He looked nothing like what he later became, and honestly DeAngelo has shown more than he did.
None of this ensures that DeAngelo has a better career than Tanabe or Schultz. It just means it's ridiculous to write off a 21yr old defenseman simply based on some bone-headed mistakes.

 

[cactus shake]

When you compare the cast around a player like Dumba and the situation he has to develop in, I really hope they can get the top RD this summer to balance out the side and protect DeAngelo a little.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

When you compare the cast around a player like Dumba and the situation he has to develop in, I really hope they can get the top RD this summer to balance out the side and protect DeAngelo a little.

I've still got it in the back of my brain that we're not done going after Trouba.

 

[SniperHF]

I've still got it in the back of my brain that we're not done going after Trouba.

Price has gone up though. They may want him but I don't think they can afford it asset wise. It's a similar situation of OELs value in 2012 vs 2013. Both had significant value before, but confirming the growth on the offensive side is a big +++.

 

[Matias Maccete]

Well, I didn't say he'll ALWAYS be like this - although in my experience, people who reach this age with the kind of impulse control issues and bad decision-making under pressure that he has have a hard time breaking from that until they're much older. What I am saying is that the Coyotes may find themselves in the same situation Tampa Bay did, where they are willing to make him expendable even with his offensive gifts in a case where they are seeking a big return. His personality and performance issues will make the decision easier for the team, because there will always be someone out there who sees the offensive skill and believes they can fix the other stuff (see: Nashville and Ribeiro).

If we move him any time soon I think we'd get terrible value anyway because we'd be the second team moving him in basically one season. I'd prefer to hang onto him and hope he figures it out, unless of course he does something completely unforgivable.

 

[IPreferPi]

When you compare the cast around a player like Dumba and the situation he has to develop in, I really hope they can get the top RD this summer to balance out the side and protect DeAngelo a little.

Unless Chayka can swing a Dougie Hamilton-esque trade, our best bets will probably be targeting #3 RHDs like Savard in Columbus, Hamonic from the Isles, or Braun in San Jose (who might be very available this summer if the Sharks finally decide to blow it up as things aren't looking too good for them in the playoffs).

 

[_Del_]

Right. We picked him up for a second round pick. He has baggage. You're never going to get value for him if you flipped him right now. Far better choice to just see what you've got and let it play out.

 

[Jakey53]

Even today Yandle is not a fantastic decision maker. When he was a rookie, it was frightening. Everyone on the board wanted to see him play, and then we all went, "wait, they're planning on entering the season with him taking a regular shift?" He had a decent outlet pass and good straight line speed. Those were literally the only good things on display. He looked nothing like what he later became, and honestly DeAngelo has shown more than he did.
None of this ensures that DeAngelo has a better career than Tanabe or Schultz. It just means it's ridiculous to write off a 21yr old defenseman simply based on some bone-headed mistakes.

Right. We picked him up for a second round pick. He has baggage. You're never going to get value for him if you flipped him right now. Far better choice to just see what you've got and let it play out.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with you.

 

[Jakey53]

Unless Chayka can swing a Dougie Hamilton-esque trade, our best bets will probably be targeting #3 RHDs like Savard in Columbus, Hamonic from the Isles, or Braun in San Jose (who might be very available this summer if the Sharks finally decide to blow it up as things aren't looking too good for them in the playoffs).

We have to aim higher. We already have to many third pairing RHD.

 

[IPreferPi]

We have to aim higher. We already have to many third pairing RHD.

#3 RHDs != third pairing RHDs. Perhaps I should say #3 Ds who are RH shots. And Savard, Hamonic, and Braun are not third pairing defensemen, either in usage or in stats. Caps might also consider moving Carlson, who is going to be in the final year on his contract. But we're likely looking at least at a Yandle price tag for him.

I'm all for aiming high, but I also prefer to not have my reach extend my grasp.

 

[cobra427]

We have to aim higher. We already have to many third pairing RHD.

Agreed, we need a recognized, and what most would consider a 1RHD, the caliber of Hamilton/Trouba/Shatty.

 

[Jakey53]

#3 RHDs != third pairing RHDs. Perhaps I should say #3 Ds who are RH shots. And Savard, Hamonic, and Braun are not third pairing defensemen, either in usage or in stats. Caps might also consider moving Carlson, who is going to be in the final year on his contract. But we're likely looking at least at a Yandle price tag for him.

I'm all for aiming high, but I also prefer to not have my reach extend my grasp.

I would like to aim higher but these are the type of players that could be in our sites. I don't think Braun would be much of an upgrade for us but the other two I really like, but probably not available. Nothing wrong with reaching for the moon, it's what you have to give back is my concern.

Agreed, we need a recognized, and what most would consider a 1RHD, the caliber of Hamilton/Trouba/Shatty.

These type of players are probably not available, and if they are, they will cost us the farm, and the is something I would not do at this point. We might get lucky with the expansion draft and get someone.

 

[rt]

The difference between DeAngelo and Yandle is that Yandle, for all his cowboy antics on the ice (especially when he was younger), is a smart, smart guy. You can compare Yandle and DeAngelo in terms of offensive skill, but in terms of decision making and attitude they could not be further apart.

Attitude? DeAngelo is a meat head, but what's wrong with his attitude?

 

[rt]

Well, I didn't say he'll ALWAYS be like this - although in my experience, people who reach this age with the kind of impulse control issues and bad decision-making under pressure that he has have a hard time breaking from that until they're much older. What I am saying is that the Coyotes may find themselves in the same situation Tampa Bay did, where they are willing to make him expendable even with his offensive gifts in a case where they are seeking a big return. His personality and performance issues will make the decision easier for the team, because there will always be someone out there who sees the offensive skill and believes they can fix the other stuff (see: Nashville and Ribeiro).

Let's pretend he didn't say mean things to people when he's mad. Still want to paint his play with that broad brush? He likes Donald Trump and he has a dirty mouth. He's also basically a made to order cast member for that Jersey Shore tv show from some years back. None of that means anything at all to his effectiveness as a hockey player. I think people are struggling to separate the man from the player.