Post-Game Talk: Game 69: Slicks at Kraken (1pm)

[kihei]

What a barn burner this is.

 

[kihei]

Preds at home held to single point by Jets.

 

[PG Canuck]

This team is going nowhere with these goalies.

 

[Sad People]

Team sucks man.

 

[PG Canuck]

Pretty pathetic that goals like that go in. Not even AHL level goaltending.

 

[kihei]

The wrong team showed up in the third period. Start Gruber the rest of the way and hope for the best.

 

[Cisse]

Team sucks man.

I think our coaching sucks. We don't get any better at defending certain situations, on PK, on face offs or on goal tending. Grubauer showed what kind of goalie he can be while playing for Avs. Our goalie coaching has sucked for two seasons. We haven't had anyone playing their A game.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

Too many defensive lapses against a team with all world offensive talent and goaltending that doesn't really deserve to be called that.

Maybe Driedger's ready?
If not we might have to ride Jones, who hasn't been good for some time, during a stretch that will decide our season.

The wrong team showed up in the third period. Start Gruber the rest of the way and hope for the best.

1) Who's Gruber?

2) Grubauer left the game with an injury, Heard it might be the groin again....

 

[Kat Predator]

A really, really bad break that Gruu was sick for this one.

Jones sucks.

 

[kihei]

Too many defensive lapses against a team with all world offensive talent and goaltending that doesn't really deserve to be called that.

Maybe Driedger's ready?
If not we might have to ride Jones, who hasn't been good for some time, during a stretch that will decide our season.

1) Who's Gruber?

2) Grubauer left the game with an injury, Heard it might be the groin again....

His friends call him Gruber. Start anybody but Jones. Start your sister. Anyone.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

His friends call him Gruber. Start anybody but Jones. Start your sister. Anyone.

I personally would just put Oleksiak in goalie gear and tape him to the posts.
Would probably get the GAA average down cause he's big....

 

[Sad People]

I think our coaching sucks. We don't get any better at defending certain situations, on PK, on face offs or on goal tending. Grubauer showed what kind of goalie he can be while playing for Avs. Our goalie coaching has sucked for two seasons. We haven't had anyone playing their A game.

Yeah I’m kinda thinking this as well. I don’t know enough about the game to be able to decide if it’s the coaching, players or both but I’m kinda leaning towards coaching as well. Unfortunately Hakstol has probably done just a good enough job this year to get another year.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

Yeah I’m kinda thinking this as well. I don’t know enough about the game to be able to decide if it’s the coaching, players or both but I’m kinda leaning towards coaching as well. Unfortunately Hakstol has probably done just a good enough job this year to get another year.

I think it also has to do with the defensive schemes.
The Avs have a great goalie coach but their defensive set up also allows goalies to look good.
Georgiev couldn't make a save last year in New York and now he looks fantastic.

 

[Kat Predator]

I personally would just put Oleksiak in goalie gear and tape him to the posts.
Would probably get the GAA average down cause he's big....

Bring up Daccord. The Firebirds will just have to play a walrus.

Ed: Actually, I'm pretty sure Jones would pass through waivers without a sniff.

 

[Cisse]

Yeah I’m kinda thinking this as well. I don’t know enough about the game to be able to decide if it’s the coaching, players or both but I’m kinda leaning towards coaching as well. Unfortunately Hakstol has probably done just a good enough job this year to get another year.

Hakstol ain't the only one in our coaching staff. Who coaches defenders and who coaches goalies? Would there be better options available? Who is our video coach and does he have the capacity to see and point our mistakes and oppositions weaknesses at a great level? Why doesn't our skill coach get our face offs better?

I think it also has to do with the defensive schemes.
The Avs have a great goalie coach but their defensive set up also allows goalies to look good.
Georgiev couldn't make a save last year in New York and now he looks fantastic.

I think Jussi Parkkila is a good goalie coach and he can especially work with European goalies and turn them into NHL style.

 

[GrungeHockey]

Jones has clearly reverted back to his pre-Kraken form so if Gru can't play or carry the load for the balance of the season the team's in trouble.

 

[Irie]

Hakstol ain't the only one in our coaching staff. Who coaches defenders and who coaches goalies?

Steve Briere was brought in to coach the goalies this year. He had been Toronto's goalie coach for 6 or 7 years and the person a lot of leaf fans blamed for their inconsistent goaltending.

He was the one that pushed hard for Francis to sign Jones. It all was somewhat questionable during the off-season, but looked really smart by Christmas. Three months later and the moves aren't looking quite as great.

Personally, watching this game, I don't think goaltending was the issue. The defensive coverage lapses and lack of communication left guys open across the ice all game for prime scoring chances.

If a team is leaving guys wide open on the far side of the ice with clean looks at open nets, and the passing lanes are wide enough to drive a Zamboni through, I expect a lot of goals against, and a lot of goalie injuries as they try to sprawl to make those saves time and time again.

 

[Toomany7pins]

Both Goalies are not good right now. Gru is inconsistent as heck and Jones isn’t good right now. Time to bring up Joey D or CD.

 

[Kevinsane]

This team is going nowhere with these goalies.

Agreed. You simply can’t give up a goal a minute into the first and second periods and not have it deflate the bench. I’m not absolving the forwards or the D, but neither Grubauer or Jones inspires confidence that they can do the job consistently.
“Consistently” being the key word.

 

[Kevinsane]

I think our coaching sucks. We don't get any better at defending certain situations, on PK, on face offs or on goal tending. Grubauer showed what kind of goalie he can be while playing for Avs. Our goalie coaching has sucked for two seasons. We haven't had anyone playing their A game.

This is fair. The Kraken haven’t done ANYTHING at a consistently high level, and the unsustainable shooting percentage pre All Star Game turned out to be exactly that.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

Seems like Grubuaer left the game because of a non Covid related illness.
So hopefully he just didn't feel right, had the shits etc. and it's nothing more.

Going with Jones right now wouldn't be a great thing for our playoff hopes.

 

[Kat Predator]

Steve Briere was brought in to coach the goalies this year. He had been Toronto's goalie coach for 6 or 7 years and the person a lot of leaf fans blamed for their inconsistent goaltending.

He was the one that pushed hard for Francis to sign Jones. It all was somewhat questionable during the off-season, but looked really smart by Christmas. Three months later and the moves aren't looking quite as great.

Personally, watching this game, I don't think goaltending was the issue. The defensive coverage lapses and lack of communication left guys open across the ice all game for prime scoring chances.

If a team is leaving guys wide open on the far side of the ice with clean looks at open nets, and the passing lanes are wide enough to drive a Zamboni through, I expect a lot of goals against, and a lot of goalie injuries as they try to sprawl to make those saves time and time again.

1st goal: Grubauer had time, squared up, Kane fired it right past him. First shot of the game.

2nd goal: Yamamoto sliding past the front of the net. Grubauer anticipates it. Maybe a bit late. Goes right through him.

3rd goal: Huge rebound off Grubauer causes chaos. We can't retrieve the puck. Defense breaks down. McDavid goes McDavid. Kane blasts it into the open net.

4th goal: Defensive breakdown. Both d-men take McDavid. McDavid goes McDavid. Hyman buries it.

5th goal: Evander Kane lugs the mail down the ice. Rips the shot right past Jones who reacts after the puck hits the net.

6th goal: McDavid goes McDavid. Just rips it right through Jones like he isn't there.

I think we have a goalie problem. We also have a defense problem. The two things compliment one another and make the other look worse.

 

[Irie]

1st goal: Grubauer had time, squared up, Kane fired it right past him. First shot of the game.

2nd goal: Yamamoto sliding past the front of the net. Grubauer anticipates it. Maybe a bit late. Goes right through him.

3rd goal: Huge rebound off Grubauer causes chaos. We can't retrieve the puck. Defense breaks down. McDavid goes McDavid. Kane blasts it into the open net.

4th goal: Defensive breakdown. Both d-men take McDavid. McDavid goes McDavid. Hyman buries it.

5th goal: Evander Kane lugs the mail down the ice. Rips the shot right past Jones who reacts after the puck hits the net.

6th goal: McDavid goes McDavid. Just rips it right through Jones like he isn't there.

I think we have a goalie problem. We also have a defense problem. The two things compliment one another and make the other look worse.

I agree that they are related, but poor defense leads to poor goaltending where as poor defense is not necessarily related to poor goaltending.

First and last goal were garbage, but I'd argue that 90% of the goalies in the league aren't saving 3 if not all 4 of the goals in between. When a shooter is within 20 feet, it is positioning that is going to stop those hard shots, not reactions. Goalie reactions are based on the puck positioning and the anticipated angle of the stick at the time of the shots contact, not because they can see the puck coming and are quick enough to catch it with a glove. That is why outside shots that are redirected one foot from where they are shot are often goals. The goalie is reacting to the shooters stick and not the puck. Shots from closer range that are just inside the post or under the crossbar are just good shots, and often not bad goaltending. (goals 4 and 5)

As for Seattle's goalies, I won't argue that they are great, but I think we should be realistic. Grubauer's form is not great. He drops early, over reacts and gets himself out of position a lot. He relies on reflexes over positioning and technique.

Jones can't move the way he used to prior to his 2017-18 injury, were he used to be a freak of nature getting across the crease at his size. He now relies on positioning more than reflexes.

Neither goalie is at all above average. This team has a HUGE defensive coverage issue. It forces the goalies to play deeper in the net, cutting down a big advantage.

If this team wants to continue to play poor position puck chase hockey in their own zone, then this team needs an all-world superstar goalie if they want to have league average goaltending.

It's true that Jones and Grubauer are likely not good enough to post a .900+ save percentage behind this team, but neither are 80-90% of the goalies in the league. Unfortunately most of the goalies available are likely all going to have similar results until the team adequately addresses tightening up the coverage, working together as a unit, and shutting down the enormous passing lanes they have been allowing again.

Between the christmas break and the middle of February, the D-zone coverage was much more disciplined and the GAA went down and the SV% went way up. But four weeks ago they started chasing again, the discipline is gone and the results are predictable.

 

[The Marquis]

Burakovvvvvvskkyyyyyyy

 

[Kat Predator]

I agree that they are related, but poor defense leads to poor goaltending where as poor defense is not necessarily related to poor goaltending.

First and last goal were garbage, but I'd argue that 90% of the goalies in the league aren't saving 3 if not all 4 of the goals in between. When a shooter is within 20 feet, it is positioning that is going to stop those hard shots, not reactions. Goalie reactions are based on the puck positioning and the anticipated angle of the stick at the time of the shots contact, not because they can see the puck coming and are quick enough to catch it with a glove. That is why outside shots that are redirected one foot from where they are shot are often goals. The goalie is reacting to the shooters stick and not the puck. Shots from closer range that are just inside the post or under the crossbar are just good shots, and often not bad goaltending. (goals 4 and 5)

As for Seattle's goalies, I won't argue that they are great, but I think we should be realistic. Grubauer's form is not great. He drops early, over reacts and gets himself out of position a lot. He relies on reflexes over positioning and technique.

Jones can't move the way he used to prior to his 2017-18 injury, were he used to be a freak of nature getting across the crease at his size. He now relies on positioning more than reflexes.

Neither goalie is at all above average. This team has a HUGE defensive coverage issue. It forces the goalies to play deeper in the net, cutting down a big advantage.

If this team wants to continue to play poor position puck chase hockey in their own zone, then this team needs an all-world superstar goalie if they want to have league average goaltending.

It's true that Jones and Grubauer are likely not good enough to post a .900+ save percentage behind this team, but neither are 80-90% of the goalies in the league. Unfortunately most of the goalies available are likely all going to have similar results until the team adequately addresses tightening up the coverage, working together as a unit, and shutting down the enormous passing lanes they have been allowing again.

Between the christmas break and the middle of February, the D-zone coverage was much more disciplined and the GAA went down and the SV% went way up. But four weeks ago they started chasing again, the discipline is gone and the results are predictable.

I don't disagree with a lot of that. In fact, nice summary.

I do think poor goaltending does lead to breakdowns in other areas. First, the team starts to take chances because they are playing from behind. Second, they start to try to do too much because they start to doubt the goaltender is going to bail them out. They'll start feeling the reverse. They need to bailout the goaltender. Small mistakes have big consequences.

To be clear, I wasn't suggesting that any goaltender, even Superman, was going to stop all those shots. The 3rd goal in particular was basically not going to be stopped. On the other hand, the final shot on that play came because Grubauer gave up a big juicy rebound right up into the high slot. Then the defense was just scrambling and out of sorts.

I'm with you that there were some great shots. 1, 4, 5, and 6 were all very high skill shots. They beat a lot of goalies in the NHL. All I'm saying is they might not all beat the best NHL goalies. The best NHL goalies have very high hockey IQs, see the ice, and play ahead of the play, not behind it. Because you're correct. Things are happening too fast to rely solely on pure reaction. What I meant with goal 2 is that if Grubauer had been "ahead of the play" he'd have had a very good chance to deny Yamamoto, even on the door step. From film study and seeing the angles he may have been able to play the play rather than guess and hope reflex responses would be enough.

Two points you made that I really agree strongly with. The defense is playing poorly and without consistent structure. It has been for a number of games now. It's not clear why. Secondly, it's not clear how we get an elite goaltender. We're in the same boat as a lot of teams in hoping that an average-ish goalie can play above his head and sustain that level of play for an extended time. That said, I don't see us becoming the next Tampa dynasty without elite goaltending.