Post-Game Talk: Game 55 - McAVOY SCORES IN OT - BRUINS 2 Chicago 1 F /OT

Glove Malfunction

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I’ve found the equivalent of the situation example that you were referring to. This is the Hockey Canada Referee’s Case Book/Rule Combination 2018-2020:

https://cdn.hockeycanada.ca/hockey-...Officiating/Downloads/rulebook_casebook_e.pdf

On page 112, under Situation 5, Rule 9.1 (e), it states that “If an attacking player bats the puck and it is deflected into the goal by any player…or goalkeeper the goal shall NOT be allowed. The key principle of this rule is that no goal can be scored when an attacking player bats the puck unless the puck is subsequently clearly ‘shot’ into the goal.”

“If it (the puck) is batted by an attacking player, and then deflects off his own stick into the net – no goal.”

So, as you said, the mere act of the puck subsequently making contact with the player’s stick or deflecting off it does not negate the hand pass – the player has to make a clear ‘shooting action’ with his stick to render the hand pass complete or void. Obviously this is not an NHL document but I’d be highly surprised if the NHL rules were any different, and it’s talking here about scoring a goal not merely making a pass. But I agree, I think the principles set out here are equally applicable to passes, since the same factors are in play – what is the primary means of motion by which a puck reaches its intended target, be it the net or a teammate? If it’s a hand, then it’s an illegal hand pass, whether or not the puck subsequently touches a stick. It’s only when the player clearly propels the puck intentionally with his stick that it becomes a legal pass, rather than just directing or deflecting it.

You certainly know your rules! :thumbu:
Thanks. I am in my 11th year as a USAH ref, and while I'm not the best skater, I like to think i make up for it with my rules knowledge. Unfortunately, It makes me cranky when the NHL refs miss (or more likely decide not call) what I think was an obvious infraction (Ahem - the hook on Krug just before he tripped Maatta).
 

aguineapig

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Love it when Carlo plays physical :thumbu:


What we are now seeing is the transformation of Carlo from the tall spindly kid who was all arms and legs with his long reach, to a grown man who is realizing his own strength. With his height and reach he can angle the oncoming forward towards the boards but now with his added strength he can completely eliminate them from the play. Watch how he postions his body against the boards and the opposing player. He gains the puck 99% of the time. I've compared him to Ken Morrow before, of the USA Miracle on Ice team and then 4 straight Cups before and consider this. Morrow was 23 and completed four years at Bowling Green when he won Gold and then the Isle dynasty. How old is Carlo?
 

BTO

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The only thing anyone should be crying about is how Krug was blatantly hooked there. I don't need an ultra-slow motion replay to see that.
The only thing anyone should be crying about is the fact that Krug decided to try to carry the puck into the o-zone with a minute left in the hockey game when the 'Hawks were standing up at the blueline. Dump it in and go get it. If Chicago had gotten the puck all they would have done with it is dump it back down the ice. But they won so meh.
 
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PatriceBergeronFan

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He is certainly turning into a physical beast. Next time I hope its Kucherov or Matthews skating over the blueline
The turning point (although he has had periods of physical play in his early career) seems to be the game where the fans and media torched he and the team for not defending Rask.

His feeble 'I tried to fight' did not go over well and I hope he realized it and uses it at motivation.

Similar to early Boston Horton in the brawl vs Buffalo where he didn't drop the gloves. He got the message real quick and didn't fail the next time with the Atlanta brawl.
 

PatriceBergeronFan

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I'm comfortable with that explanation. It makes a good deal of sense. However there are also hockey journalists out there (and not just Chicago ones!) arguing the alternative - that even just a puck grazing a stick negates a hand pass. I've looked at the NHL rulebook - unless I've missed something it's silent on this point, so it really does become a question of interpretation.

Either way, it certainly looked like a hand pass in real time, so, while if it happened to the Bruins I'd be a little frustrated, I'd understand why the ref blew the play dead, even if it was the wrong call. Did the ref afterwards consider he'd made a mistake in this case? Who knows? There are precedents - refs have admitted mistakes to players and coaches in the past. No-one has refuted what Toews claimed, so I'm willing to take him at his word on this one, even if, as you say, the ref really was correct in the first place.

The call came mere moments after the hand pass. We see more delayed penalties called often.

The official immediately and conclusively signaled no goal the moment the puck went in the net. It was very decisive.
 

Aussie Bruin

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The call came mere moments after the hand pass. We see more delayed penalties called often.

The official immediately and conclusively signaled no goal the moment the puck went in the net. It was very decisive.

For sure. It's a bit of a weird situation in that Chicago are adamant that the officials afterwards told them that the call was a mistake and the mainstream hockey media are treating it as one, but I've certainly come round to the point of view that the original call was likely correct, even if the puck did brush Maatta's stick.

They probably won't, but I think that the NHL needs to make an official statement on this, clarifying the rule and advising whether the original call was correct or not. It's crazy to have these situations, and this isn't the first one this season, where it isn't clear what a particular rule is and whether on-ice calls have been made accurately.
 

PatriceBergeronFan

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For sure. It's a bit of a weird situation in that Chicago are adamant that the officials afterwards told them that the call was a mistake and the mainstream hockey media are treating it as one, but I've certainly come round to the point of view that the original call was likely correct, even if the puck did brush Maatta's stick.

They probably won't, but I think that the NHL needs to make an official statement on this, clarifying the rule and advising whether the original call was correct or not. It's crazy to have these situations, and this isn't the first one this season, where it isn't clear what a particular rule is and whether on-ice calls have been made accurately.

I do have a hard time fully trusting that Toews didn't take it out of context either whether deliberate or not. I can see an official mentioning with the slow motion, HD video he may have made a mistake.

To imply it should have been called differently is very different. Even if that one went against the Bruins I could not be too upset because that was impossible to not call a hand pass with real time.

All I can say is thank goodness the NHL doesn't have that as a reviewable play. Imagine deciphering the game deciding goal on that, frame by frame!
 

Five Hole

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I really have to wonder what exactly Bruce Cassidy thinks his timeouts are for, he never uses them.

So, your tied 1-1 late in game 2 of a back to back, your players are showing signs of fatigue and their play has been increasingly sloppy as the 3rd period has rolled along. You get a gift of a Power play with about 2:30 left and for the first minute of it your boys make bone head plays and accomplish nothing, then play stops with 1.25 left and 59 seconds on your power play.

Not calling a timeout in that situation is a significant oversight and if not for the "hand pass" it would have cost him the game. I can't emphasize enough how dumb it was not to use your timeout right there. Set up a play and remind the boys they only need to skate HARD for 50 seconds. Instead he saves his timeout like he gets cash back at the end of the night if he doesn't use it. As a result he has to rely on the refs to save him.

USE YOUR TIMEOUTS BUTCH!
 
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Aussie Bruin

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Well, I need to give the league some credit, they’ve made a statement of sorts on the hand pass matter after all:

Turns out call Chicago Blackhawks were not robbed of a victory

An official spokesperson for the NHL has confirmed to NBC Sports Chicago that the call by the referee was correct – Maatta’s play on the puck was a hand pass, and the fact that it then deflected off his stick (if it did) is irrelevant and doesn’t nullify the fact of the pass being illegal, necessitating that the play be blown dead.

So @Glove Malfunction and some others here, you were 100% correct, and, while the Hawks may still fairly enough feel a little unlucky, they certainly weren’t robbed of an extra point.
 

CDJ

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That's a very interesting stat. Wonder if there are any other players with similar poor records on the team. If not, it's even more telling.

yeah it’s telling that he got off the IR as the team ran out of gas/hit the mid season doldrums and before they got their much needed break


A bottom pairing defenseman does not have that much of an impact on if a team wins or loses. Especially one that is really not that noticeable good or bad out there.
 

TwineTickler

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yeah it’s telling that he got off the IR as the team ran out of gas/hit the mid season doldrums and before they got their much needed break


A bottom pairing defenseman does not have that much of an impact on if a team wins or loses. Especially one that is really not that noticeable good or bad out there.

I think there could be a little smoke. and what you're saying is true.... bet it's a bit of both. Certainly don't think you can completely throw it out.
 

TaroTsujimoto

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Not blaming Moore but here's an interesting split

8-6-5 with moore in the lineup (91 point pace)
25-4-7 without Moore in the lineup (130 point pace)

I thought Moore looked good prior to this season, but then again, which Bruins defenceman DOESN'T look good? Even journeyman Kampfer looked good, to the point that I was surprised he cleared waivers. Clearly our strong team defence makes each individual d-man look a bit better than they actually are.

Our other really expendable defenceman is Clifton. I'm not saying he's bad, but he sure looks small out there, and he doesn't do anything all that well. He's often to blame for goals scored against us, and 2 points in 30 games just won't cut it. If other teams value him, by all means ship him out.
 
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jgatie

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Okay, pet peeve...

It's brakes. Cars have brakes. You pump brakes. Not breaks.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled hockey discussion.

Pet peeve here too. Only thing that irks me more is "Loose" used for "Lose". Those two words aren't even pronounced the same.
 
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Bruinaura

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Pet peeve here too. Only thing that irks me more is "Loose" used for "Lose". Those two words aren't even pronounced the same.
Your nothing but a looser!!

(Yes I intentionally did both lol)
 

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