GDT: Game 27: Avs @ Wild | Saturday, December 5th, 6pm MT | If and If...

[Colorado Avalanche]

They're downright petrified to play the Wild in Minny and it shows every time

I couldn't agree more. We just need to beat them once t get it to out , for their system again

 

[tigervixxxen]

It's amazing to me hearing about how the wild make the avs llooks slow I remember in that playoff series the first two games all everyone could talk about was how blazing fast the avs were and how the Wild simply couldn't keep up and how the wild were exposed because they were a finesse team that couldn't outpace the quick Avalanche I remember watching McKinnon blazing past spurgeon to the point where spurgeon fell down backwards and thinking what the hell are we going to do

The fact that we are a "fast team" is pretty much a myth now. We have two fast players.

 

[dahrougem2]

The fact that we are a "fast team" is pretty much a myth now. We have two fast players.

Any team in the league can be a fast team, they just need the right system. The Boston Bruins in 2011 when they won the cup were a very, very fast team because they moved the puck so well that it made everyone look faster than they were.

We aren't fast, but we could be.

 

[Nzap]

Minnesota against Colorado is like Detroit against Colorado circa 2005-2010

I remember us playing well against them in 09-10.
My first season watching the Avs regularly so remember that well.

 

[Teppo]

There must be something in the air in Minnesota that makes the Avs completely forget how to play hockey. At least the home games against the Wild are entertaining but most of the away games are brutal.

Its not something in the air - it is something in the NHL rule book. Last change to the home team. It allows the Wild to put the players they need to against the Avs top line which usually shuts them down.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Any team in the league can be a fast team, they just need the right system. The Boston Bruins in 2011 when they won the cup were a very, very fast team because they moved the puck so well that it made everyone look faster than they were.

We aren't fast, but we could be.

the fastest team that year and arguably the fastest since, was their final opponent. they also had only 2 real fast players. puck moves faster than everyone else. players who can move the puck fast is more important on having fast team than fast skaters.

of course one needs some players who can skate as it's so hard to move the puck in ozone and neutral zone with just passes.

bruins also had 2 fast forwards. kelly and marchand. 3 if one counts seguin (also wheeler during the regular season).

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Its not something in the air - it is something in the NHL rule book. Last change to the home team. It allows the Wild to put the players they need to against the Avs top line which usually shuts them down.

That's just simply not true. The Avs have been a better team on the road this year than at home and it's not like the Wild have some elite shut down pairing that other teams don't have.



The Avs just don't play well in Minnesota. It's likely because they're a young team and the core guys still haven't gotten over the playoffs a couple years ago.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

This whole "fast" term always confused me. Sure Mackinnon and Duchene were fast as hell but who else made the Avs so fast two years ago? PAP? Stastny? ROR? Sarich? Hejda? Benoit? Cliche?

Duchene and Mackinnon being two of the top skaters in the league is what made the Avs be considered such a fast team, not the depth speed. It never really existed. Sure guys like Staz, Mcginn and ROR were good skaters but they weren't speedsters. Redmond replaces Benoit's speed. Wagner replaces Cliche.

I think signing a guy like Boedker this offseason should be a priority. The speed he can add to a line with Grigorenko or Soderberg is much needed.

 

[Teppo]

That's just simply not true. The Avs have been a better team on the road this year than at home and it's not like the Wild have some elite shut down pairing that other teams don't have.



The Avs just don't play well in Minnesota. It's likely because they're a young team and the core guys still haven't gotten over the playoffs a couple years ago.

I don't think it is true of every team the Avs face on the road, but the Avs and Wild have played each other, with the same coaches, so often that they know each other very well. There is a huge difference in the scoring opportunities that Mack + Duchene generate when the Wild have the last change versus when the Avs have the last change. If you take look at the last game, it was very rare to see the Avs top players up against Prosser/Dumba (5 vs 5). Scandella frustrated and shut them down all night.

Tonight will be a different story - Roy will be able to match the big guns against the Wild's weaker defenders and they will generate a ton more scoring chances. Its usually the case when the Avs play the Wild in Denver. I think it will come down to the play of Kuemper. Avs will be fired up and he will need to play very well to keep it a close game.

 

[PAZ]

This whole "fast" term always confused me. Sure Mackinnon and Duchene were fast as hell but who else made the Avs so fast two years ago? PAP? Stastny? ROR? Sarich? Hejda? Benoit? Cliche?

Duchene and Mackinnon being two of the top skaters in the league is what made the Avs be considered such a fast team, not the depth speed. It never really existed. Sure guys like Staz, Mcginn and ROR were good skaters but they weren't speedsters. Redmond replaces Benoit's speed. Wagner replaces Cliche.

I think signing a guy like Boedker this offseason should be a priority. The speed he can add to a line with Grigorenko or Soderberg is much needed.

I think the Avs were considered fast because of Mack and Duchene, but also because we were a team that scored on the rush frequently.

 

[Nihiliste]

This whole "fast" term always confused me. Sure Mackinnon and Duchene were fast as hell but who else made the Avs so fast two years ago? PAP? Stastny? ROR? Sarich? Hejda? Benoit? Cliche?

Duchene and Mackinnon being two of the top skaters in the league is what made the Avs be considered such a fast team, not the depth speed. It never really existed. Sure guys like Staz, Mcginn and ROR were good skaters but they weren't speedsters. Redmond replaces Benoit's speed. Wagner replaces Cliche.

I think signing a guy like Boedker this offseason should be a priority. The speed he can add to a line with Grigorenko or Soderberg is much needed.

We were a legit fast team in the first 1.5 years of the Sacco era and somehow that got propagated forward.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I don't think it is true of every team the Avs face on the road, but the Avs and Wild have played each other, with the same coaches, so often that they know each other very well. There is a huge difference in the scoring opportunities that Mack + Duchene generate when the Wild have the last change versus when the Avs have the last change. If you take look at the last game, it was very rare to see the Avs top players up against Prosser/Dumba (5 vs 5). Scandella frustrated and shut them down all night.

Tonight will be a different story - Roy will be able to match the big guns against the Wild's weaker defenders and they will generate a ton more scoring chances. Its usually the case when the Avs play the Wild in Denver. I think it will come down to the play of Kuemper. Avs will be fired up and he will need to play very well to keep it a close game.

We'll have to see I guess. I think for the Avs it comes down more to the fact that the core of this team and the guys who played in that MIN/COL series 2 years ago are all still very young. For a lot of them it was there first real playoff experience. It was probably a devastating loss for them, and one that I dont think they've recovered from yet.


I think its a situation where every time the Avs/Wild play all the talk is about the rivalry built between the teams since that playoff match up, and I think it gets into the heads of those younger guys. And since they're the ones who run the offense and defense of this team, when they struggle the entire team struggles.



Hopefully they can get it going tonight, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them come out flat footed and a step behind all night again tonight. On the plus side for us, Varlamov had a very strong game Saturday night and that was extremely important for him. He's put together back to back strong games, for I think the first time all season now. It was especially important to play well against Minny for him. Hopefully it allows him to turn the corner and start playing like the Top 10 goalie he has been the past 2 years. With that Varlamov in net, this team is capable of winning games even when they aren't playing great hockey.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

This is waaaay beyond not having last change or any of that. This isn't an Xs and Os type thing. We could put any line we want against any line of theirs, and we will still get outworked and dominated down low. We simply cannot match their forecheck and their tempo. I watched the 9 line slamming sticks and getting upset with how bad they were getting hemmed in their own zone. That's not a matchup thing. That line is a non-debatable top 5 unit in the NHL and they can get dominated by Minnesota's 3rd line. Sorry, I don't see how having last change negates complete dominance. Our problems go a lot deeper than the faceoff.

Predicting 4-1 Wild tonight. I think we will score a goal.

 

[ArWKo]

Definitely just got flat-out dominated Saturday. I definitely think a huge part of it is psychological when it comes to Minny.

Normally you'd be glad to be moving back home for the second game of the home and home but for this team it seems to make things worse.

Here's to hoping that the whole "honoring the 20th anniversary team" can light enough of a fire in some of the guys that they can at least compete.

 

[Teppo]

This is waaaay beyond not having last change or any of that. This isn't an Xs and Os type thing. We could put any line we want against any line of theirs, and we will still get outworked and dominated down low. We simply cannot match their forecheck and their tempo. I watched the 9 line slamming sticks and getting upset with how bad they were getting hemmed in their own zone. That's not a matchup thing. That line is a non-debatable top 5 unit in the NHL and they can get dominated by Minnesota's 3rd line. Sorry, I don't see how having last change negates complete dominance. Our problems go a lot deeper than the faceoff.

Predicting 4-1 Wild tonight. I think we will score a goal.

I think the last change impact is on shutting down Duchene+Mack. The forecheck is not so much a product of line matches in my opinion.

I think you guys are selling the Avs short (I am a Wild fan) - I think they win tonight. I have no confidence in Kuemper, and I really think will see D+M generate a ton of scoring chances.

 

[Ararana]

This is waaaay beyond not having last change or any of that. This isn't an Xs and Os type thing. We could put any line we want against any line of theirs, and we will still get outworked and dominated down low. We simply cannot match their forecheck and their tempo. I watched the 9 line slamming sticks and getting upset with how bad they were getting hemmed in their own zone. That's not a matchup thing. That line is a non-debatable top 5 unit in the NHL and they can get dominated by Minnesota's 3rd line. Sorry, I don't see how having last change negates complete dominance. Our problems go a lot deeper than the faceoff.

Predicting 4-1 Wild tonight. I think we will score a goal.

Have to respectfully disagree. Watching these two teams play each other over the last few years, it's a night a day difference between the Pepsi Center and Xcel Engery Center. Last change is huge, especially when all your high end forward talent resides on a single line.

Sure the Avs have other issues (Roy's inability to adapt on the fly), but last change was key in the playoff series two years ago and it's still a huge factor.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Have to respectfully disagree. Watching these two teams play each other over the last few years, it's a night a day difference between the Pepsi Center and Xcel Engery Center. Last change is huge, especially when all your high end forward talent resides on a single line.

Sure the Avs have other issues (Roy's inability to adapt on the fly), but last change was key in the playoff series two years ago and it's still a huge factor.

Forget the playoff series. Any momentum against the Wild ended at game 6. That was the old testament, it's the new testament since then.

Since that series, we've played the Wild at home 3 times. They've won all 3 games, outscoring us 11-5 (6-1 last year). We get last change and they still steamroll us.

My point is that it doesn't matter who we have taking the faceoff. 3 seconds after that faceoff, any Wild line can pin us deep and cycle endlessly until they either score, we ice the puck, take a penalty, or Varly makes a series of great saves.

I fail to see this massive improvement at home that you're talking about. They walk into the Pepsi Center, have about 60% of the crowd support(shameful), and feel completely relaxed. The results speak for themselves. They win, we lose.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

This is waaaay beyond not having last change or any of that. This isn't an Xs and Os type thing. We could put any line we want against any line of theirs, and we will still get outworked and dominated down low. We simply cannot match their forecheck and their tempo. I watched the 9 line slamming sticks and getting upset with how bad they were getting hemmed in their own zone. That's not a matchup thing. That line is a non-debatable top 5 unit in the NHL and they can get dominated by Minnesota's 3rd line. Sorry, I don't see how having last change negates complete dominance. Our problems go a lot deeper than the faceoff.

Predicting 4-1 Wild tonight. I think we will score a goal.

I think X's and O's have a lot to do with it though. Roy doesn't adjust. Last game, the top line did absolutely nothing. That's when you try to move Duchene off that line to spread it out a bit. Try something, at least. The Avs played the same from the start of the game to the end. That's not good.

 

[S E P H]

That's just simply not true. The Avs have been a better team on the road this year than at home and it's not like the Wild have some elite shut down pairing that other teams don't have.



The Avs just don't play well in Minnesota. It's likely because they're a young team and the core guys still haven't gotten over the playoffs a couple years ago.

I gotta disagree with this, Yeo is an extremely super average coach. The only thing he's got going for him is his match ups game, which I will admit, he is very good at, but it also makes the games in Minnesota beyond boring.

I don't think they have been amazing against Avs at home. I would say that Avs lost those games more than the Wild winning it. Game 7 was from mistakes by EJ and Duchene. Last years home opener was from a lack of offense which went into Game 30 of the season. And this years home opener was a combination of Roy being an idiot and Avs having the mentality of a child getting thrown out of a Toys-r-us on free day where the child's just depressed.

This is waaaay beyond not having last change or any of that. This isn't an Xs and Os type thing. We could put any line we want against any line of theirs, and we will still get outworked and dominated down low. We simply cannot match their forecheck and their tempo. I watched the 9 line slamming sticks and getting upset with how bad they were getting hemmed in their own zone. That's not a matchup thing. That line is a non-debatable top 5 unit in the NHL and they can get dominated by Minnesota's 3rd line. Sorry, I don't see how having last change negates complete dominance. Our problems go a lot deeper than the faceoff.

Predicting 4-1 Wild tonight. I think we will score a goal.

Even though from what I said above, agree about this. It was just a pathetic hockey display by the Avs who liked like a junior D team. They didn't show up and were rightly beaten, every team has these games.

 

[Bender]

I gotta disagree with this, Yeo is an extremely super average coach. The only thing he's got going for him is his match ups game, which I will admit, he is very good at, but it also makes the games in Minnesota beyond boring.

I don't think they have been amazing against Avs at home. I would say that Avs lost those games more than the Wild winning it. Game 7 was from mistakes by EJ and Duchene. Last years home opener was from a lack of offense which went into Game 30 of the season. And this years home opener was a combination of Roy being an idiot and Avs having the mentality of a child getting thrown out of a Toys-r-us on free day where the child's just depressed.

At the start of last game, the wild announcers were talking about how good the wild have been about scoring certain types of goals against the Avs. I thought to myself, oh what's that 'off-the-post-and-in' type of goals?? Then sure enough, the first goal goes off the crossbar and in.

I think they are beatable but you have to have the right mindset and you have to have the right gameplan. Most of the games they've lost this year have been against teams that are big AND play a heavy game. LA, Anaheim, St-Louis, Winnipeg twice. We are the 3rd/4th biggest team in the league (or at least we were with Rants+Zads) but we certainly don't play that style and certainly not against the wild.

So meanwhile, you get guys like parise and ryan carter who somehow think they are tough guys and run around thinking they can do whatever they want? My gameplan would be quite simple and it would be 'make them pay' all frikkin' night long.

A lot of us have been saying it all year long but when the other team enters our zone with the puck, our team gets into this 'passive defensive mode/no forecheck on the puck carrier' and THAT'S the biggest problem with this team this year, imo. Giving the zone to the opposition and letting them set up is absolutely killing us.

Conversely, if an opposing player carries the puck into the zone and is quickly met by being wallpapered to the boards, next time around he probably thinks twice about looking for a great play. Oh sure, 1 time out of 10, that player will make a good pass that could lead to a good scoring chance but I'll take those odds. Beats what we got going on now.

 

[dahrougem2]

So meanwhile, you get guys like parise and ryan carter who somehow think they are tough guys and run around thinking they can do whatever they want? My gameplan would be quite simple and it would be 'make them pay' all frikkin' night long.

A big problem, in my opinion, is that the "Make them pay" mentality is not something Roy seems to believe in, for whatever reason.

Against Minnesota, however, you have to attack them, because they're going to attack you if you just sit back, which the Avs do for 60 minutes every game against Minny. Parise wants to come to the front of the net? Whack him and cross check him until the ref warns you to stop. In the corners, punish players that want to go there. Start scrums after the whistle, don't simply let Minnesota get away with whatever they want to do.

 

[Sea Eagles]

A big problem, in my opinion, is that the "Make them pay" mentality is not something Roy seems to believe in, for whatever reason.

Against Minnesota, however, you have to attack them, because they're going to attack you if you just sit back, which the Avs do for 60 minutes every game against Minny. Parise wants to come to the front of the net? Whack him and cross check him until the ref warns you to stop. In the corners, punish players that want to go there. Start scrums after the whistle, don't simply let Minnesota get away with whatever they want to do.

Great post mate. Wholeheartedly agree. When teams lean on us, we tend to go to water.

 

[Pokecheque]

A lot of us have been saying it all year long but when the other team enters our zone with the puck, our team gets into this 'passive defensive mode/no forecheck on the puck carrier' and THAT'S the biggest problem with this team this year, imo. Giving the zone to the opposition and letting them set up is absolutely killing us.

Conversely, if an opposing player carries the puck into the zone and is quickly met by being wallpapered to the boards, next time around he probably thinks twice about looking for a great play. Oh sure, 1 time out of 10, that player will make a good pass that could lead to a good scoring chance but I'll take those odds. Beats what we got going on now.

That'd be nice but that's the problem with Roy's system--it doesn't really allow for that.

Even the way they're teaching each individual defenseman how to play is bad. You see them back WAY into the zone and then flop every moment they get. Opposing shooters know this and just hang onto the puck until someone flops prematurely. I mean, it's not like they don't have time to sit back and set something up. They never get challenged consistently.

I agree the team should get more physical, but really I just want them to be more aggressive, ESPECIALLY when the opposition is trying to enter the zone. There is no excuse for practically backing into your own goalie on a regular basis.

People keep saying Roy has them playing better, and that's true to a certain extent. He FINALLY started getting them to play better hockey in the neutral zone after largely ignoring that part of the ice for most of the season, but the team still plays a really bad system in the other two zones. In fact, the emphasis on trapping has made them even less aggressive than before. Again, Roy's "fix" was temporary at best. A bad system is still a bad system. Roy's "vision" is fundamentally flawed, and until he realizes that, he will be amongst the worst coaches in the NHL.