GDT: GAME 23 | Hurricanes @ Senators | Weathering the Storm | Tue Dec 12 2023, 7PM | TSN5, RDS

[UglyPuckling]

Stutzle holds the puck too long for my liking, but sometimes he has no choice when nobody’s where they are supposed to be. This is how the Sens are losing games, they seem confused about where they should he on ice and who they should be guarding. These are coachable and fixable, so hoping they keep building on what we saw against Detroit and burn this game tape.

Players have developed bad habits which the coach allowed for a young, inexperienced team in the past seasons. Now, the coaches are trying to fix them in-season and the players are not easily adapting. Hopefully they learn fast.

Stutzle tries to cut though and deke an entire team it seems at times. At times its likely warranted because there isn't any line mates with him or near him to pass to. But, at other times, he's just trying to do too much.

Even though this team has some talented offensive players that can score, when they really need to manufacture a goal at key times, it seems like they are often unable to do so. Special team play hasn't been that great this year.

Anyone notice Carolina defending tge break out and neutral zone man to man? We had no answer to it. Brutal.

That's the Canes system, so yes.

 

[LiseL]

Their pp is poo poo

Also piss poor lol.

 

[LiseL]

What if you're left handed.

I'm a southpaw, I wear it on my right wrist. However, because I'm a southpaw, I don't like watches that are too big or bulky.

 

[2CHAINZ]

I'm a southpaw, I wear it on my right wrist. However, because I'm a southpaw, I don't like watches that are too big or bulky.

You don't ever wear a watch on the right wrist doesn't matter. Watch always on the left. Only exception is if you don't have a left arm.

 

[LiseL]

Imagine winning a 2nd period.

They did against Detroit, scored 3 unanswered goals if I remember correctly, but it turns out, that was an anomoly.

 

[LiseL]

Is this what happened or is this exactly what happened?

This is the reason this team won't make the playoffs this year. It's little mistakes that cause major momentum swings in the game.

Also a lack of emotional maturity to handle the momentum swings.

 

[jbeck5]

Ok, all the coaches using are dumb because it doesn't work, we had the most successful PP in franchise history in spite of that entry being used heavily all year and decided that we'd go back to it this year for no apparent reason since it obviously doesn't work, jbeck5 for next sens head coach, fire DJ (I think we can all agree on the last two words).

Lol again with the lazy argument.

I also think you're drastically overestimating how often the drop pass is used league wide or how successful it is.

You're argument is that because teams use it sometimes that it must be used all the time? It's very weak.

 

[jbeck5]

Wonder if that works....but that's harmonic lmao

 

[LiseL]

The biggest concern so far this season (and there are many) has to be that Sanderson is now in on the suck.

Everything special about him is slowly being siphoned out. He's getting Chabot'ed 2.0 right before our eyes.

Yep, he seems to now focus more on scoring than defending, just like most of his teammates. But that's a league wide issue. They always talk about how many goals the D score (or don't score). How about counting the # of goals not scored in the Dzone due to their defensive skills? I also have an issue with the Norris almost always going to defensemen who score the most, not those who defend the best.

 

[LiseL]

Oh, and "Murph Frog" on the radio. I'm gonna need the number of your dealer.

According to him we're about to go on a major playoff run!

His rationale that because we've won more road games than home games, we're golden lol. Guess he didn't look at who we'll be facing this next road trip. Before last night's game, I would've said they should beat Coyotes and the Blues, but now, I'm not even confident enough to think they'll win any unless some of the opposing teams mail it in.

 

[LiseL]

Why is it tough to bench Stu?
Cuz they will need to rely on Kelly more?
Who is a worst player?
So we could end up losing the game?
Guess what ? We are not winning with Stuzle's mistakes
Might as well show him accountability

Hear, hear. Short-term pain for long-term gain.

 

[LiseL]

I've said they should have hired new assistants to replace Capuano and Payne. Unfortunately, nothing we can do about that now. Also been saying DJ should be replaced since early early early in the season. I've stopped repeating the point because it's clear they won't replace him. So, I do agree on those 2 things.

However, you can't go 0% on special teams and expect to win a game. You probably can't even go under 50% and expect a positive outcome the majority of the time. Players are not executing, it's as simple as that. We have so much offensive talent, there's no reason why the PP should be 15.5% net, regardless of schemes and whatever else. They are skilled, have multiple elite shooters through the roster, have outstanding passers, great skaters, etc. All the ingredients are there for a great recipe but the execution f***ing sucks.

The PK, on the other hand, I have no f***ing clue what's going on there. From 2018-19 until last season, cumulative, they've been in the top half of the league in net PK% and only a fraction of a percent away from the top 10. So, it's actually been a pretty damn good PK for most of DJ's time as a coach. I have no answers and no ideas there.

We lost some of our best PK'ers in Nick Paul, Connor Brown and Formenton.

 

[Korpse]

Yep, he seems to now focus more on scoring than defending, just like most of his teammates. But that's a league wide issue. They always talk about how many goals the D score (or don't score). How about counting the # of goals not scored in the Dzone due to their defensive skills? I also have an issue with the Norris almost always going to defensemen who score the most, not those who defend the best.

If anything Sanderson is guilty of being too conservative offensively. A player with his skating ability should be involved more offensively. You need defensemen to be a part of your attack and in the absence of Chabot this team has not gotten enough from the other 6 guys.

 

[Norris4Norris]

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Craig Button "One step forward and one step back... not found their way.... case now for a number of years... Changes have to happen either on the ice or off the ice"

 

[LiseL]

At the end of the day, whether it happens today, tomorrow or in the summer, Steve Staois will decide who the coach of this team is next season.

The new GM, whoever they are, will not have enough time to do it.

As far as I understand, DJ doesn't have a contract for next season. So it's not like they can go into the year with him. They'll need to either extend him when the season ends or find someone new.

I'm assuming that they'll want to conduct an extensive GM search, and it's likely that some of the people they'll want to interview are working for teams that will be in the playoffs. So, realistically, we won't have a GM in place until just before the draft.

And they won't hire a GM in June and then tell him to find a coach the next day. They'll want him to "listen and learn," as Andlauer puts it.

So regardless of who is hired as GM, next offseason is the Summer of Steve. He's hiring the coach, running the draft, and making the decisions in free agency.

I believe DJ has a one year option on his current contract.

 

[Micklebot]

Lol again with the lazy argument.

I also think you're drastically overestimating how often the drop pass is used league wide or how successful it is.

You're argument is that because teams use it sometimes that it must be used all the time? It's very weak.

No, my argument is people have actually done the research and shown statistics that it's effective, and coaches continue to use it because it's effective. Coaches aren't perfect but they also aren't stupid, if it was as bad as you think it is, they wouldn't be using it, and yet you can pretty much guarantee it happens every game. But don't let facts get in your way.

That's not to say it's perfect, nothing is, but if it consistently isn't working it's not because it's a bad system, it's because the execution isn't there.

 

[DaveMatthew]

I believe DJ has a one year option on his current contract.

Right, that’s still a decision Staios (not the new GM) will need to make. I could see him kicking the new coach can down the road though (I.e. picking up the option and telling the new GM they can make a change mid season next year or during summer of ‘25), but if that happens, this fanbase will combust.

 

[jbeck5]

No, my argument is people have actually done the research and shown statistics that it's effective, and coaches continue to use it because it's effective. Coaches aren't perfect but they also aren't stupid, if it was as bad as you think it is, they wouldn't be using it, and yet you can pretty much guarantee it happens every game. But don't let facts get in your way.

That's not to say it's perfect, nothing is, but if it consistently isn't working it's not because it's a bad system, it's because the execution isn't there.

It is a lazy argument because you're just flashing a get out of jail card by saying "some coaches use it so if must be good"

Why don't you actually address the issues I brought up. First and foremost, who the heck is supposed to be a passing option if everyone is stationary at the Blueline.

Try and actually address the issues brought up instead of just saying "coaches use it sometimes".

It's also not as successful as you claim.

 

[Micklebot]

It is a lazy argument because you're just flashing a get out of jail card by saying "some coaches use it so if must be good"

Why don't you actually address the issues I brought up. First and foremost, who the heck is supposed to be a passing option if everyone is stationary at the Blueline.

Try and actually address the issues brought up instead of just saying "coaches use it sometimes".

It's also not as successful as you claim.

Your argument consistently boils down to because I said so. I already went over the advantages of the system and Flamingo posted a link to the stats on its success but here we go again I guess.

Drop back pass entry is typically a direct entry system, the forwards drive back defenders while the recipient is given extra ice to build up speed. In the two man back variations you can shit to the weak side while the one man variation pushes defenders back with speed while setting picks on the Blueline.

The strategy is about creating a mismatch in speed and forces defenders to either back off the line or risk getting caught flat footed and get burned. If they back off, you can drop the puck to the point on entry or take the open ice they leave. If they don't you have the potential to burn them with a speed mismatch particularly if your picks are set up well.

The absolute arrogance it takes to think that you know better than the 32 teams than all use this entry...

 

[JD1]

If they thought this team was close to winning, or were interested in winning this year, there would be no reason why they couldn't hire a coach right now.

You can hire a coach before a GM. Staios and Andlauer certainly could.

Lots of GMs have inherited coaches.

Kyle Dubas went to Pittsburgh to be the President and GM. He inherited a coach.
When Steve Yzerman went to Detroit, he inherited a coach.
Danny Briere inherited his coach.

Whoever they hire as GM – that person doesn't have to have a blank slate.

And to be honest, I think there's a pretty good chance that the new GM is in the organization right now. His name is Ryan Bowness.

Ok. You got me. Yes. They can hire a coach. GM doesn't have to have a blank slate.

 

[JD1]

At the end of the day, whether it happens today, tomorrow or in the summer, Steve Staois will decide who the coach of this team is next season.

The new GM, whoever they are, will not have enough time to do it.

As far as I understand, DJ doesn't have a contract for next season. So it's not like they can go into the year with him. They'll need to either extend him when the season ends or find someone new.

I'm assuming that they'll want to conduct an extensive GM search, and it's likely that some of the people they'll want to interview are working for teams that will be in the playoffs. So, realistically, we won't have a GM in place until just before the draft.

And they won't hire a GM in June and then tell him to find a coach the next day. They'll want him to "listen and learn," as Andlauer puts it.

So regardless of who is hired as GM, next offseason is the Summer of Steve. He's hiring the coach, running the draft, and making the decisions in free agency.

Pretty sure DJ has an option for next year

Your argument consistently boils down to because I said so. I already went over the advantages of the system and Flamingo posted a link to the stats on its success but here we go again I guess.

Drop back pass entry is typically a direct entry system, the forwards drive back defenders while the recipient is given extra ice to build up speed. In the two man back variations you can shit to the weak side while the one man variation pushes defenders back with speed while setting picks on the Blueline.

The strategy is about creating a mismatch in speed and forces defenders to either back off the line or risk getting caught flat footed and get burned. If they back off, you can drop the puck to the point on entry or take the open ice they leave. If they don't you have the potential to burn them with a speed mismatch particularly if your picks are set up well.

The absolute arrogance it takes to think that you know better than the 32 teams than all use this entry...

Great work. Now please explain the strong side shit.

 

[JD1]

Lol again with the lazy argument.

I also think you're drastically overestimating how often the drop pass is used league wide or how successful it is.

You're argument is that because teams use it sometimes that it must be used all the time? It's very weak.

Well, for what it's worth, I've seen everything send game except one and bits and pieces of probably another 15 this year. Every game I've watched, both teams use this as a primary means to gain the blueline. By primary I mean starting from deep in their own end with the other side having 4 defenders.

Right, that’s still a decision Staios (not the new GM) will need to make. I could see him kicking the new coach can down the road though (I.e. picking up the option and telling the new GM they can make a change mid season next year or during summer of ‘25), but if that happens, this fanbase will combust.

It really doesn't matter what the fan base does. What matters is what the customer base does.

 

[jbeck5]

Your argument consistently boils down to because I said so. I already went over the advantages of the system and Flamingo posted a link to the stats on its success but here we go again I guess.

Drop back pass entry is typically a direct entry system, the forwards drive back defenders while the recipient is given extra ice to build up speed. In the two man back variations you can shit to the weak side while the one man variation pushes defenders back with speed while setting picks on the Blueline.

The strategy is about creating a mismatch in speed and forces defenders to either back off the line or risk getting caught flat footed and get burned. If they back off, you can drop the puck to the point on entry or take the open ice they leave. If they don't you have the potential to burn them with a speed mismatch particularly if your picks are set up well.

The absolute arrogance it takes to think that you know better than the 32 teams than all use this entry...

Did you read flamingos post or click on the link?

Actually click on it. Not only did flamingo clearly say that the drop pass was less successful than dump, carry, etc. but he also posted the article with charts. I've screen shot the charts incase being lazy is your thinking, judging by the lazy arguments.

Also, I've never said they never work. I've never said coaches don't use it. I remember someone on tsn showing that they were effective 3-4 years ago and then every team started doing it...and now, the last couple years? Teams are starting to not do it again.

Like any strategy, they come and go with effectiveness. Coaches adapt. Systems adapt. Players adapt.

Back in the day Jacques Martin and Jacques Lemaire were doing the neutral zone trap almost all the time...and it worked...but now, teams aren't doing it. Why not? Times change.

Goalies were making pad stack saves all the time and it worked. Now they're being told to stay in the butterfly.

Maybe It was effective when it first became popular because teams hadn't adjusted yet.

I work from home and have the total sport package and have nothing but time to watch and record all the games I can handle. Not watching anything on Netflix or anything...and I'm telling you, teams aren't using it nearly as much as a couple years ago...and with good reason. As the chart shows, it's not as successful as the options WITHOUT the initial drop pass.

 

[Cosmix]

Brady should have plowed into him. His left skate would have hit him right in the head.

There will always be a next time.

It was crystal clear 2 years ago we'd gone as far as we could with DJ, but again, apparently we're special and nothing that happens on the ice is a direct result of bad coaching. Just gonna have to be more patient I guess!

Yup, the fans don't know shit. What we have here is a failure to be stable!

 

[Cosmix]

It was crystal clear 2 years ago we'd gone as far as we could with DJ, but again, apparently we're special and nothing that happens on the ice is a direct result of bad coaching. Just gonna have to be more patient I guess!

Yup, the fans don't know shit. What we have here is a failure to be stable!

Agreed. A goalie can go in and do a pokecheck for sure...but it's risky and situational. A guy coming in at speed, you really have to be sure to time it right. No different from hitting a guy two feet from the boards. You don't want to send anyone flying into the boards when they have no control.

But...part of it is Brady playing it up a bit. Maybe looking for a call.

I think the refs were right not to call anything here...but it was very close to borderline. Not sure if I'd be comfortable having goalies pull that move too often.

I think the refs should have called a tripping penalty as he poke checked at Brady's feet, not the puck.