GDT: Game 17: Coyotes @ Blue Jackets/ 14 Nov 2015 / 5 PM MST/ TV: FSAZ PLUS

[KG]

Fire Newell brown?

 

[PhoPhan]

Pho, we have no bet presence on the PP.

There's a lot more skill involved to competently play that role. On a very basic level, you need quick hands to slap at rebounds, hand-eye coordination to deflect shots from the outside, quickness to get out of the way sometimes and not end up blocking that could have otherwise gotten through, retrieval skills to recover pucks that wind behind the net, and then passing skills to send it back around to the point or someone on the half boards. To name just a few.

Scott does not have any of that, nor anything else to compensate. He has mass, and that's about it. Doan and Hanzal are much better choices there. That's not to say either is Tomas Holmstrom, but they're a heck of a lot more suitable than Scott. It's really impossible to overstate how incompetent he is offensively.

Moreover, I don't think that's really the issue on the powerplay. Many of the goals they've scored have been from in close. When your powerplay is as bad as the Coyotes' has been, there's usually more than one issue anyway. I'd say the lack of movement up front and the inability of anyone without a hyphen in his last name to get shots through from the point have been at least as problematic.

 

[cobra427]

Can we get a little perspective here? The Coyotes lost badly last night, and they were right in it until things started getting chippy. I'm not sure whether it would have been better without Scott, but I'm not sure how it would have been better. Doan got ejected, a few other guys got slapped with weird penalties stemming from that incitement, and the whole flow of the game changed dramatically. I think Columbus came out way ahead in that exchange. This is exactly the type of **** I was worried about when they signed Scott.

And are we serious about the powerplay? He has 11 points in 279 career games. In the modern era (1967 and onward), there have been exactly 15 players (defensemen included) who have played more than 200 games and scored fewer than 20 points. Scott is the only one still in the league, and of those other 14 guys, only Andrew Peters had fewer points than Scott (7 points to Scott's 11, in 50 fewer games and less than half the ice time).

It's seriously not a stretch to say Scott could be the most offensively inept player in NHL history. He's a gigantic human being, but all of his value is contained inside of his fists, and even that value is debatable.

The flow totally change the chippier the game became as it moved along. Other teams are going to try the same tactics now. We need to stay out of that type of game and Scott just adds to it. Admirable for him to step in, that is his job, but as a team, I think it is a mistake to go down that path because we lose our focus.

What is with the slow starts? I can't figure that out other then Smith needing to not give up early goals, That needs to be fixed too, not sure why guys are not flying off the opening face off?

 

[RR]

agreed, you know the PP is bad when people want Scott on it.

The thing about the PP is that it seems that we're trying to force the pass to the middle guy on the umbrella because the PK knows that is where we're trying to get our shots. They need to set it up on the half wall and run some plays off that or put it behind the net...

If Boedker stays on the point he needs to shoot the puck. Hit the goalie's pads and see what Hanzal, Duclair, and the others that crash the net can do with rebounds.

 

[zerekstar]

Why are we back to the Boedker experiment on the PP? It failed. Time to move on.

 

[PhoPhan]

Why are we back to the Boedker experiment on the PP? It failed. Time to move on.

Players are not immutable entities.* He was a disaster at first, but it's a new position, basically, and he seems to have improved somewhat from the beginning of the year. He's not a stud back there by any means, but there's more skill up front than there is on the back end, especially when Elliott isn't dressed. The way Boedker has looked back there the last few games is a better option than Stone or Murphy. I'd love to add someone better suited to the role, but given the current personnel, Boedker is as good an option on the point as anyone.

*If this seems to contradict my earlier point about Scott, it doesn't. Boedker has strong if not quite elite offensive skills, and at any rate they're far more projectable than Scott's.

 

[Jakey53]

Can we get a little perspective here? The Coyotes lost badly last night, and they were right in it until things started getting chippy. I'm not sure whether it would have been better without Scott, but I'm not sure how it would have been better. Doan got ejected, a few other guys got slapped with weird penalties stemming from that incitement, and the whole flow of the game changed dramatically. I think Columbus came out way ahead in that exchange. This is exactly the type of **** I was worried about when they signed Scott.

And are we serious about the powerplay? He has 11 points in 279 career games. In the modern era (1967 and onward), there have been exactly 15 players (defensemen included) who have played more than 200 games and scored fewer than 20 points. Scott is the only one still in the league, and of those other 14 guys, only Andrew Peters had fewer points than Scott (7 points to Scott's 11, in 50 fewer games and less than half the ice time).

It's seriously not a stretch to say Scott could be the most offensively inept player in NHL history. He's a gigantic human being, but all of his value is contained inside of his fists, and even that value is debatable.

In one sentence you said the Coyotes lost badly but were in it until it got chippy. What is it?
If our special teams didn't let us down, we could have easily won that game. I think we outplayed the Jackets and I liked the way we pushed back and did not lay down like last year. I know, like most, that Scott isn't the answer for our inept PP, but let's change things up a bit and try something different. Maybe he can help jump start the PP. The fourth line with Scott is playing very well.

 

[_Del_]

Why are we back to the Boedker experiment on the PP? It failed. Time to move on.

Bc our coaching staff believes if it's broke, don't fix it. It worked once; it'll work again. We just have to execute.

 

[Jakey53]

While we did lose badly, considering the score. We outplayed the Jackets in every way with the exception of special teams.
Things got chippy because of Domi, so I would not blame Scott for doing his job. The fact that the Yotes didn't handle the emotional part well is not on Scott either.
In spite of all that, I thought we were still outplaying them up until about half way into the third. Once the Jackets got that fourth goal, the wheels came off. The Jackets were very opportunistic and should be commended for that.
Scott's big net presence on the pp would be all he could offer and would limit our options.

Exactly. We are moving the puck on the PP, but I think, hanging onto it a little too long and therefore most shoots get blocked.

 

[Jakey53]

It's not like we have a bottom 10 PP. We have a league second worst PP. It allows teams to take great liberties.

That's what happens when your PP is stone cold.

 

[Jakey53]

Fire Newell brown?

Fire everyone seems like the usual cop out around here.

 

[Jakey53]

The flow totally change the chippier the game became as it moved along. Other teams are going to try the same tactics now. We need to stay out of that type of game and Scott just adds to it. Admirable for him to step in, that is his job, but as a team, I think it is a mistake to go down that path because we lose our focus.

What is with the slow starts? I can't figure that out other then Smith needing to not give up early goals, That needs to be fixed too, not sure why guys are not flying off the opening face off?

So, you are saying let's lay down like last year? Like kihekah19 said we let our emotions get the best of us last night, and bonsai tree saying that other teams take liberties when your PP is cold. If we had a average PP, I don't think we would have seen Columbus been as chippy.

 

[Jakey53]

Players are not immutable entities.* He was a disaster at first, but it's a new position, basically, and he seems to have improved somewhat from the beginning of the year. He's not a stud back there by any means, but there's more skill up front than there is on the back end, especially when Elliott isn't dressed. The way Boedker has looked back there the last few games is a better option than Stone or Murphy. I'd love to add someone better suited to the role, but given the current personnel, Boedker is as good an option on the point as anyone.

*If this seems to contradict my earlier point about Scott, it doesn't. Boedker has strong if not quite elite offensive skills, and at any rate they're far more projectable than Scott's.

I agree, it has been much better.

 

[Jakey53]

Bc our coaching staff believes if it's broke, don't fix it. It worked once; it'll work again. We just have to execute.

Are you blaming the coaching for our inept PP?

 

[CC96]

Jakey use multiquote FFS haha. ^^

Anyway, I thought we had a chance in this game, until we started getting inexplicably slapped with penalties after every even scrum. Duke looked great last night. Domi didn't look quite like himself, but he's not going to end up killing it every night as a rookie, so it was perfectly understandble. Mike Smith sucked.

 

[_Del_]

Why are we back to the Boedker experiment on the PP? It failed. Time to move on.

Bc our coaching staff believes if it's broke, don't fix it. It worked once; it'll work again. We just have to execute.

Are you blaming the coaching for our inept PP?

I'm not sure if this is a trick question...

 

[_Del_]

Jakey use multiquote FFS haha. ^^

He's trying to catch your post count...

 

[Jakey53]

Jakey use multiquote FFS haha. ^^

Anyway, I thought we had a chance in this game, until we started getting inexplicably slapped with penalties after every even scrum. Duke looked great last night. Domi didn't look quite like himself, but he's not going to end up killing it every night as a rookie, so it was perfectly understandble. Mike Smith sucked.

Usually I start out thinking I will only respond to one or two posts, then get carried away.

 

[RemoAZ]

Scott is way better than Bizcrappy in every way. That game getting chippy had nothing to do with him. In fact, if he'd have pounded a guy or two early, that might have got them to back off. Saying he made it worse or somehow influenced it is ridiculous. They were going after OEL just like teams did last year. We need guys that will have his back.

But Scott on the PP? We finally have Tipchura playing the role he should and now you want Scott on the PP? Yikes. How much PP time would be wasted just waiting for him to mosey down in front of the net? Scott, Martinook, Tipchura, Gordon; Guys like that need to do their jobs. That's the best way they can help the team. Any points from them are a bonus.

 

[Jakey53]

Scott is way better than Bizcrappy in every way. That game getting chippy had nothing to do with him. In fact, if he'd have pounded a guy or two early, that might have got them to back off. Saying he made it worse or somehow influenced it is ridiculous. They were going after OEL just like teams did last year. We need guys that will have his back.

But Scott on the PP? We finally have Tipchura playing the role he should and now you want Scott on the PP? Yikes. How much PP time would be wasted just waiting for him to mosey down in front of the net? Scott, Martinook, Tipchura, Gordon; Guys like that need to do their jobs. That's the best way they can help the team. Any points from them are a bonus.

I agree, and I think our power play might start clicking if we didn't hang onto the puck so long. We are having good movement, just quicken the pace and a hole should open up. Easier said than done.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

I threw Scott out there and I have been good and royally rebuked. My little leaves are singed.

 

[RemoAZ]

I agree, and I think our power play might start clicking if we didn't hang onto the puck so long. We are having good movement, just quicken the pace and a hole should open up. Easier said than done.

Crap we've agreed a few times. Obviously that means I've been completely wrong...

Seriously though, there's been a few PPs lately where the puck movement has been better than it's ever been (well, as far back as I can conveniently remember anyway). It should get faster and better as they get more experience playing with each other. Yandle would help QBing it though. Yandle with our young talent would be fun to watch. Boeds still looks out of place or maybe a better way to put it is not natural running it.

 

[5thLiner]

The Boll weevil is stirring up **** and the refs, apparently Blue Jackets' fans, dish out a raft of unbalanced penalties and a game misconduct on Doan.

Screw the refs and screw Lumbus and Torts' goon show.

I get being upset at the refs, they were complete garbage, but calling Columbus a "goon show" while your team employs John Scott is a perfect example of someone in a glass house throwing stones. We have Hartnell and Boll, so obviously I'm not saying you're wrong in your assessment, but you gotta recognize that your team is the same.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I get being upset at the refs, they were complete garbage, but calling Columbus a "goon show" while your team employs John Scott is a perfect example of someone in a glass house throwing stones. We have Hartnell and Boll, so obviously I'm not saying you're wrong in your assessment, but you gotta recognize that your team is the same.

I'm eminently aware that we employ both Steve Downie and John Scott, two "players" whose entire raison d'etre is to accumulate the stupidest of penalties. You should know that I employed the phrase "goon show" in the context of that specific game.

I'm normally a big fan of Columbus for many reasons, but Torts took the opportunity, thanks to the indulgent refs, to play an instigator game and I think it sucks. "Old Time Hockey" is a great marketing phrase and is fun in 70's movies, but it's a ****** way to play the game in 2015.

 

[5thLiner]

I'm eminently aware that we employ both Steve Downie and John Scott, two "players" whose entire raison d'etre is to accumulate the stupidest of penalties. You should know that I employed the phrase "goon show" in the context of that specific game.

I'm normally a big fan of Columbus for many reasons, but Torts took the opportunity, thanks to the indulgent refs, to play an instigator game and I think it sucks. "Old Time Hockey" is a great marketing phrase and is fun in 70's movies, but it's a ****** way to play the game in 2015.

That makes sense. Hard to get a sense of what you mean on message boards sometimes haha.