GDT: Game #14 - 11.08.14 - vs Sharkies - 7:00 PM - FS Southwest - 1310 AM - 96.7 FM

[Ogi1Kenobi]

Is Voukun still playing?

 

[DoubleDouble*]

Trade for Reimer as a backup, and then try to make a deal for a guy like Yandle. You'd lose Honka in that deal, and likey another good asset, but Yandle would help the team escape the zone, breakout and can kill penalties.

Oh, and he's kinda good offensively, too.

 

[RefalancheStillLose]

I just threw up in my mouth a little.

"Supremely overrated" and when he was playing there were scant few people bringing up his play at all. I mentioned his timely pinches and smart plays from time to time and mostly heard crickets. I think some people just want to create a narrative so that they can be the opposing voice of reason.

Nemeths Advanced Stats say he wasn't as good as he was made out to be, and especially now with everybody talking about how much better things would be with him, yeah "supremely Overrated" fits.
However Taking Gonchar instead of him would be stupid and Nemeth would be an upgrade over Benn, but he's got some nudes of Ruff or something because he's still somehow in the lineup.

 

[Hull Fan]

Jordie Benn sucks. If his last name wasn't Benn he'd have been on waivers by now. Ruff cannot use words like responsibility, accountability, and meritocracy then continue to put Benn on the ice for 20+ minutes. It's ridiculous the opportunities he is gifted with.

Gonchar once again tries to go back up the the boards behind him with a forechecker bearing down. Fails to clear, San Jose passes it around, KC falls, San Jose scores. It didn't work last game, it didn't work this game, maybe he shouldn't do that anymore.

McKenzie should stay. He, Spezza and Hemsky looked good together.

Seguin is Seguin.

Roussel shouldn't hit the goalie but that was hardly a steamrolling or remotely vicious. Hell Roussel got hit in the face with Stalock's stick. It wasn't a good penalty and he deserved the misconduct but that's hardly suspension worthy or even really worth talking about. Stalock ****ed up by being out there. Had he just held onto the puck there'd be no collision.

glovesave wants to win now but I'm not sure you can get the defender this team needs to make them better this early or even in the middle of the season unless they pay through the nose or take a stab at a pending UFA which with this team seems like a terrible gamble. It would be awful to sell a good part of the farm for a temporary solution only to fall short because the defense still has issues. Yandle is a more aggressive version of a Daley/Goligoski hybrid. He's not going to keep the puck out of the net. Myers costs a ton and isn't a proven #1.

The best thing this club could do is move/cut/trade/waive Jordie, play Oleksiak and call up Jokipakka. Play the kids take some lumps and hope they perform well. At the very least they'll have a much better idea of what they need going forward and we can make new mistakes rather than the same old ones over and over again. I *****ed about Oleksiak coming up but after those initial games he's played pretty well. That should continue and Jyrki deserves a shot.

If this team continues to flounder Spezza won't be here anyway so you trade for futures and use some combo this summer to find a solid 2 way defender to compliment Daley, Goligoski or both. Selling the future now and hoping your solution turns this group around is a much bigger risk than trusting that the older kids are ready for more.

 

[Hull Fan]

Ryder and a 3rd for Cole. I still just laugh.

I want to punch things. Seriously someone needs to take a two handed chop to Nieuwendyk's knees for that.

 

[dechire]

Spezza was pissed as all hell in the post-game. I doubt the contract talks in the coming weeks are going to go very well but maybe that will actually push Nill to make a trade on defense

 

[RefalancheStillLose]

I want to punch things. Seriously someone needs to take a two handed chop to Nieuwendyk's knees for that.

For all the good he did, that one was a major oversight.
But it's not as if Nill is without his mistakes.
Gonchar, Ellis, Horcoff, Lindback, no additions on the defensive side, not buying out Cole.

 

[txomisc]

this team has a serious defense issue. Not just defensemen but there is a lack of commietment from the forwards as well. the team is basically built to be hyper aggressive and outskate everyone. It would be nice to have some players who could be labeled as defensive minded guys.

 

[Klockis]

lololololololololololollololol

 

[MetalGodAOD*]

this team has a serious defense issue. Not just defensemen but there is a lack of commietment from the forwards as well. the team is basically built to be hyper aggressive and outskate everyone. It would be nice to have some players who could be labeled as defensive minded guys.

Yep. It's not just the horrible d-men, it's the defense as an entire unit. Coaching, forwards, defense, goaltending, all of it.

 

[dechire]

Yep. It's not just the horrible d-men, it's the defense as an entire unit. Coaching, forwards, defense, goaltending, all of it.

Not to mention that defense is a weakness even among the forwards. Not that they don't try but they're decidedly offense-biased. Jamie is the only top 6 player that can or should kill penalties. We had Spezza on the PK for one of the goals against tonight which makes no sense.

 

[Stars99Lobo37]

I'm still fuming.

 

[Cin]

Yes, a guy with 18 professional games was going to be critical to keeping this defense from crumbling. This team's defense sucked with Nemeth, and it sucks without him.

I don't expect this to be a popular opinion, because no matter where I end up, Stars fans unanimously seem to think Nemeth was a big part of this team, but I think it's because his performances are considered against lesser expectations. He looked good last season because he didn't look out of place on a bad d-core. Which says what about the d-core? Exactly.

Keep in mind, I wanted to see Nemeth get more games and I liked him on that 3rd pair with Connauton. But I think his effectiveness is overstated simply because fans overstate the value of being a defensive defenseman in today's NHL. Just check out his possession stats.

They're not good. And if he was such a defensive defenseman, then why did he get 63% of his starts in the offensive zone? To note, his OZ zone finish was 44%. It's a classic base rate fallacy problem: he could sort of clear the crease, but that's all he could do. This team doesn't need a defensive defenseman. It needs a good defenseman, period. Nemeth might have developed into that, but I want to see more of him (he had a horrible preseason too) before declaring his worth because I think it's reasonable to be skeptical.

Well he was the only one capable of doing any sort of defending in the playoffs last season. The team looks even worse without him, so yeah... I'd say not having him makes a massive difference.

We're going to disagree forever if you don't think Nemeth is a quality defenseman. So I'm just going to end my post here.

 

[Cin]

What in the world is up with all of these advanced stats people popping up? It doesn't mean ****.

You can either play or you can't. It's a really simple eye test. This isn't baseball.

 

[KiedisA]

I was drunk.. ****ing Sharks, I tell you what.. We gotta bury one in 3-1 to make it safe..

The two things that drive me forward is that #91 got his goals and the SJS are no longer in the same division..

 

[Stars99Lobo37]

Spezza was pissed as all hell in the post-game. I doubt the contract talks in the coming weeks are going to go very well but maybe that will actually push Nill to make a trade on defense

Spezza is just as much part of the problem as the rest of them.

 

[MetalGodAOD*]

We had Spezza on the PK for one of the goals against tonight which makes no sense.

Was on the ice for the faceoff, I imagine he would have been switched out pretty quick but you know, they scored.

What in the world is up with all of these advanced stats people popping up? It doesn't mean ****.

You can either play or you can't. It's a really simple eye test. This isn't baseball.

Let's please not rehash this ****.

 

[OttMorrow]

Nemeths Advanced Stats say he wasn't as good as he was made out to be, and especially now with everybody talking about how much better things would be with him, yeah "supremely Overrated" fits.
However Taking Gonchar instead of him would be stupid and Nemeth would be an upgrade over Benn, but he's got some nudes of Ruff or something because he's still somehow in the lineup.

Nemeth over Benn...yes. Though I am no Gonchar fan, we need someone that's played more than a couple games on the backend that isn't named Daley.

 

[Klockis]

What in the world is up with all of these advanced stats people popping up? It doesn't mean ****.

You can either play or you can't. It's a really simple eye test. This isn't baseball.

Because advanced stats are way better than old stats. Math describes reality, it's only logical to use it as a tool in sports too.

 

[Starry Knight]

Considering Nemeth is a rookie d-man who has only played 18 games, I'm not expecting him to have sparkling advanced stats. His play is projecting him to be great though and he was a steadying presence for the defence.

 

[glovesave_35]

Nemeth over Benn...yes. Though I am no Gonchar fan, we need someone that's played more than a couple games on the backend that isn't named Daley.

I'm trying to figure out what the hell games played have to do with how guys play now. Would I rather have Gonchar from five years ago than Nemeth, of course. Gonchar is in no way a steadying veteran presence so the GP part of his resume mean jack **** right now.

 

[NukeJukes43]

I'm still fuming.

Me too. I haven't woken up pissed off from a hockey game in a while. I really want to see change. I want Spezza coming here to mean something for our club. If we have to move people to do that so be it.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

Yes, when we were playing well last year, the forwards were a big part of the improved D. Need to get back to that.

 

[David Castillo]

What in the world is up with all of these advanced stats people popping up? It doesn't mean ****.

You can either play or you can't. It's a really simple eye test. This isn't baseball.

Of course it means ****. We have two pairs of eyeballs. Two opinions. You saw Nemeth as a defensively responsible player this team needs. I saw Nemeth as a plodding defender being outmoded in today's game.

What might help us find the truth where opinions so drastically differ? Something more objective, perhaps? Like offensive zone starts? Ability to suppress shots? Ability to suppress shots compared to his teammates? Ability to generate shot attempts? Defensive zone exits? Seems reasonable to me to consider.

Like I said, I don't feel like pursuing this because I think Nemeth was worth watching develop. But please stop pretending like your eyeballs log every image perfectly into your memory bank, ready for clean retrieval when the need arises. Nemeth is an unknown. Not having him won't make a massive difference, nor was he the only one defending in the playoffs. Statements like this are why the eyeball test so often fails. One sample size doesn't make a man, but in case you forgot, Nemeth was on the ice when the Ducks beat the Stars in OT in Game 6, letting Cogliano easily retrieve a puck behind the net who then dished it to Bonino to score on Kari with Nemeth doing what so many Dallas defenders do: park right out in front of Lehtonen (this happened more than once).

 

[Klockis]

Of course it means ****. We have two pairs of eyeballs. Two opinions. You saw Nemeth as a defensively responsible player this team needs. I saw Nemeth as a plodding defender being outmoded in today's game.

What might help us find the truth where opinions so drastically differ? Something more objective, perhaps? Like offensive zone starts? Ability to suppress shots? Ability to suppress shots compared to his teammates? Ability to generate shot attempts? Defensive zone exits? Seems reasonable to me to consider.

Like I said, I don't feel like pursuing this because I think Nemeth was worth watching develop. But please stop pretending like your eyeballs log every image perfectly into your memory bank, ready for clean retrieval when the need arises. Nemeth is an unknown. Not having him won't make a massive difference, nor was he the only one defending in the playoffs. Statements like this are why the eyeball test so often fails. One sample size doesn't make a man, but in case you forgot, Nemeth was on the ice when the Ducks beat the Stars in OT in Game 6, letting Cogliano easily retrieve a puck behind the net who then dished it to Bonino to score on Kari with Nemeth doing what so many Dallas defenders do: park right out in front of Lehtonen (this happened more than once).

I'm an analytics fan but Nemeth was amazing. You are doing a mistake that A LOT of people do, taking advanced stats in small sample sizes. 18 games is not enough, and I think most people would tell you that Nemeth looked amazing. Plus almost every (good) NHL teams have better stats available than Corsi and Fenwick (eg. Kings and Hawks), I'm sure the Stars do too and they seem to love the guy.