GDT: G59: MIN @ TOR - 6 PM Central

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Digitalbooya

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Put Kaprizov with Gaudreau and Foligno, and see how he does. Better, for sure, but he sure wouldn’t look as good.
5v5 points:
Kap 29
Zucc 25
Ek 20
Hartman 18
Steel 17
Spurgeon 17
Gaudreau 15
Dumba 13
Foligno 12
Boldy 12


Is Boldy even significantly better than his linemates?
 

Bdub

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If Boldy doesn't get a goal or non-power play point by next Tuesday, it will have been one month since he's either scored a goal or recorded a non-power play point. That is abysmal.


Yep, he's been a disappointment.
Boldy and a 2nd for fiala lol
 

TaLoN

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Prove it.
Guess which is Boldy...

1677299728791.png

1677299750919.png
 

TaLoN

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This is a disingenuous argument. One player gets power play time and the other doesn't

5v5 points last 2 seasons:

Gaudreau 49
Boldy 41

5v5 p/60 last two seasons:

Gaudreau 1.84
Boldy
It's absolutely not disingenuous unless you actually think Gaudreau is some PP genius in waiting that just hasn't had the opportunity yet

Also using career numbers to show how much more impact Boldy has had in FEWER career games and a MUCH younger age. Unless you really think that what Boldy has done at 20 and 21 is to be weighted exactly equal to Freddy at 28 and 29.
 
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Digitalbooya

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It's absolutely not disingenuous unless you actually think Gaudreau is some PP genius in waiting that just hasn't had the opportunity yet
It's 100% disingenuous. You're using points as the meter to judge these players, but you're not comparing their usage at all.

If Boldy is significantly better than Gaudreau, why can't he outscore Gaudreau at 5v5? Can you answer that?
 

TaLoN

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It's 100% disingenuous. You're using points as the meter to judge these players, but you're not comparing their usage at all.

If Boldy is significantly better than Gaudreau, why can't he outscore Gaudreau at 5v5? Can you answer that?
Because Boldy is not a sniper, he's a playmaker who can shoot also. Boldy needs a shooter on his line and he doesn't have one, thus he makes plays that his linemates fail to cash in on more often than not, and he's not a good enough shooter to carry the sole weight as the shooter on his line.

That's why he is a key cog in the top PP unit being successful.

That's why he and Fiala were so good together.
 

Digitalbooya

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Because Boldy is not a sniper, he's a playmaker who can shoot also. Boldy needs a shooter on his line and he doesn't have one, thus he makes plays that his linemates fail to cash in on more often than not, and he's not a good enough shooter to carry the sole weight as the shooter on his line.
At least we can agree that Boldy's shot is sub par at best.

Idk about you, but I expect a guy that was just signed to 7x7 to be able to outproduce Freddy Gaudreau and Marcus Foligno at 5v5.

Is that too high of an expectation?
 

TaLoN

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At least we can agree that Boldy's shot is sub par at best.

Idk about you, but I expect a guy that was just signed to 7x7 to be able to outproduce Freddy Gaudreau and Marcus Foligno at 5v5.

Is that too high of an expectation?
Last season when Boldy didn't have 2 drag 2/3rds dead weight, he had 12g, 17a, 29pts in 47 games 5v5. Freddy on the same line with Fiala most of the season and then still when Boldy arrived? 12g, 22a, 34pts in 76 games 5v5.
(Per Natural Stattrick)

Boldy doing that as a 20yro rookie who joined halfway... Freddy as a 28yro vet who was there the entire time.

YES Boldy is the CLEAR better player.

BTW - I don't think it's sub par, I just think it's "ok". He can shoot, but he shouldn't be expected to be the best shooter on his line on a good team.
 

TaLoN

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Last year, Freddy at 130:22 TOI on the PP, what were his stats?
1g, 2a, 3pts.

Boldy had 110:49 TOI on the PP
3g, 7a, 10pts.

Boldy is on the PP for a reason and Freddy is not for a reason.

Being successful on the PP is not at all a knock against Boldy. Last year he was on the 2nd unit, this year he's on the top unit and go figure, it's the best PP we've had under Deano. Probably not a coincidence.
 

Soldier13Fox

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Again, the dissenting voice here. I thought we played a smart game. Tight and defensive, against a team you don’t want to open it up against. We had good chances on the PP, and we’re unlucky not to score.

Well done. While the lack of offensive punch will hurt us down the road, it is partially covered for by the improvement of our special teams, which is big.

Oh, and while Mermis did ok, he blew the coverage on the goal. Puck watching, lost contact with his man. That can’t happen.

Man, Foligno is a non entity right now.
Not the dissenting voice at all. I agree with everything you mention. This was not a bad game, regardless how it's spun.
 

Digitalbooya

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Last season when Boldy didn't have 2 drag 2/3rds dead weight, he had 12g, 17a, 29pts in 47 games 5v5. Freddy on the same line with Fiala most of the season and then still when Boldy arrived? 12g, 22a, 34pts in 76 games 5v5.
(Per Natural Stattrick)

Boldy doing that as a 20yro rookie who joined halfway... Freddy as a 28yro vet who was there the entire time.

YES Boldy is the CLEAR better player.

BTW - I don't think it's sub par, I just think it's "ok". He can shoot, but he shouldn't be expected to be the best shooter on his line on a good team.
It's interesting how that dead weight has the same or more points than Boldy this year when compared on level ground.

You know you can date range this stuff right? 5v5 from Jan 6 (Boldy's 1st game) to the end of the season:

Fiala ~ 42 points
Boldy ~ 29 points
Gaudreau 27 points

Clearly a huge difference, right?

The point is, the numbers suggest they are close in impact at 5v5. Boldy SHOULD be crushing Gaudreau's numbers or Foligno's numbers or Steel's numbers or Hartman's numbers. Hell, our defensive center is outproducing Boldy almost 2:1 this year 5v5 and he has had to lug around Greenway (45% of ice time) and Foligno (54%).

I don't know how anyone can look at Boldy's 5v5 production and not be disappointed.

I wouldn't call his shot even "ok." If it was "ok" he wouldn't be about to hit one month without a goal. This guy is getting PRIME minutes with Kap and Zucc on the power play. It is crazy to think anyone could go a month without a goal when they are on the power play with those guys every game.
 

Digitalbooya

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Last year, Freddy at 130:22 TOI on the PP, what were his stats?
1g, 2a, 3pts.

Boldy had 110:49 TOI on the PP
3g, 7a, 10pts.

Boldy is on the PP for a reason and Freddy is not for a reason.

Being successful on the PP is not at all a knock against Boldy. Last year he was on the 2nd unit, this year he's on the top unit and go figure, it's the best PP we've had under Deano. Probably not a coincidence.
You're flat out missing the point with posts like these. You're creating an argument that I don't care about and I'm not making (Gaudreau -> power play).

You're last point is false. Boldy had more minutes on the top power play unit than the second unit last season.
 

TaLoN

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It's interesting how that dead weight has the same or more points than Boldy this year when compared on level ground.

You know you can date range this stuff right? 5v5 from Jan 6 (Boldy's 1st game) to the end of the season:

Fiala ~ 42 points
Boldy ~ 29 points
Gaudreau 27 points

Clearly a huge difference, right?

The point is, the numbers suggest they are close in impact at 5v5. Boldy SHOULD be crushing Gaudreau's numbers or Foligno's numbers or Steel's numbers or Hartman's numbers. Hell, our defensive center is outproducing Boldy almost 2:1 this year 5v5 and he has had to lug around Greenway (45% of ice time) and Foligno (54%).

I don't know how anyone can look at Boldy's 5v5 production and not be disappointed.

I wouldn't call his shot even "ok." If it was "ok" he wouldn't be about to hit one month without a goal. This guy is getting PRIME minutes with Kap and Zucc on the power play. It is crazy to think anyone could go a month without a goal when they are on the power play with those guys every game.
Gaudreau is being doubly elevated at that point where as Fiala and Boldy only have each other and a dead weight center.
Boldy is 20yro rookie
Freddy is a 28yro vet

Boldy is the clear better player, their situation shows it, yet you won't admit that a 20yro rookie doing what he did was amongst the best rookies in the entire league... but Freddy is just as good... because why?

This year, Boldy is alone on Fiala island, but since Boldy is better at supporting a sniper than being one, he is affected by it to a much greater degree. He makes plays for players who can't finish them. If you can't see that, then I don't know what to tell you.
 

TaLoN

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You're last point is false. Boldy had more minutes on the top power play unit than the second unit last season.
No, I just forgot he got bumped to the top unit after Zucc got injured down the stretch, prior to that he was mostly 2nd unit with some stints on the top... which was why he had 45mins of TOI on the PP with Freddy who was centering the 2nd unit and 57mins with Ek who was centering the top unit.

Spent significant time on both units overall.

This season, in 11 or so more games, he has triple the TOI on the top unit than he had last season.
 

Digitalbooya

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Gaudreau is being doubly elevated at that point where as Fiala and Boldy only have each other and a dead weight center.
Boldy is 20yro rookie
Freddy is a 28yro vet

Boldy is the clear better player, their situation shows it, yet you won't admit that a 20yro rookie doing what he did was amongst the best rookies in the entire league... but Freddy is just as good... because why?

This year, Boldy is alone on Fiala island, but since Boldy is better at supporting a sniper than being one, he is affected by it to a much greater degree. He makes plays for players who can't finish them. If you can't see that, then I don't know what to tell you.
You keep bringing up age like it matters. It doesn't. You brought up last season because it fit your narrative better with Fiala boosting his stats while Gaudreau played babysitter. I brought stats from the present as my initial argument.

We are about to be paying this guy 7 million a season. Second highest paid forward on the team.

Sniper on the line or not, why can't we expect him to produce more than Gaudreau?

I don't give a rip if he has a sniper or not. All you're telling me is that Boldy tops out as the second best player on his line. He needs a real star player to do the finishing work for him like Fiala did last year.

No, I just forgot he got bumped to the top unit after Zucc got injured down the stretch, prior to that he was mostly 2nd unit with some stints on the top... which was why he had 45mins of TOI on the PP with Freddy who was centering the 2nd unit and 57mins with Ek who was centering the top unit.

Spent significant time on both units overall.

This season, in 11 or so more games, he has triple the TOI on the top unit than he had last season.
Again, I don't care about the power play time. I'm not advocating for Gaudreau to be on the power play. These posts are side distractions to the real conversation.
 

Wabit

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Again, I don't care about the power play time. I'm not advocating for Gaudreau to be on the power play. These posts are side distractions to the real conversation.

PP time does matter to an extent this year. Without Boldy it would bump someone like Hartman or Freddy G onto his spot PP1. They don't have the 5th skill FWD on the roster to cover for an injury like they did last year.
 

Digitalbooya

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PP time does matter to an extent this year. Without Boldy it would bump someone like Hartman or Freddy G onto his spot PP1. They don't have the 5th skill FWD on the roster to cover for an injury like they did last year.
Boldy hasn't been much of a threat on the power play recently. He's got three assists in his last 12 games. Two of those are secondary. That's the entirety of his offense since January 28th.
 

Wabit

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Boldy hasn't been much of a threat on the power play recently. He's got three assists in his last 12 games. Two of those are secondary. That's the entirety of his offense since January 28th.

MN has been 7 for 35 (20%) the last dozen games. Hartman (lazy offsides) cost them a PPG so if it was 8 for 35 (22.9%) it's on par with how it's been so far this season (23.4%).

Kap had 4p in the same timeframe with JEE and Zucc have 6p each. The setup is still working with most of the PPG seemingly ending up as Boldy to Zucc to Kap, and then JEE cleans up with a tool from the shed if needed. It would be much more dangerous if Boldy had a decent shot.
 

TaLoN

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I don't give a rip if he has a sniper or not. All you're telling me is that Boldy tops out as the second best player on his line. He needs a real star player to do the finishing work for him like Fiala did last year.
Disagree. There are plenty of players in the league that bring a shot and not much else. Give Boldy someone who can shoot, he can be the best player on the line and rack up the points you're looking for.

He just needs LEGIT players on his line, not dead weight.

Fiala Island became Boldy Island.

Same thing happened with him his freshman year in college when they had him at center with a pair of anchors on his wings.

They moved him to a line with other legit players, he was easily the best player on the line, racking up points... just because his linemates didn't waste his hard work.

He himself becomes more of a scoring threat as well, as he has a descent (just not great) shot... and since the defense has to worry about more than just him, he gets more shots for himself as well.
 
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Wabit

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Disagree. There are plenty of players in the league that bring a shot and not much else. Give Boldy someone who can shoot, he can be the best player on the line and rack up the points you're looking for.

Be just needs LEGIT players on his line, not dead weight.

Fiala Island became Boldy Island.

Boldy 5v5 linemates:
141:31 with Kap 2GF/5GA
171:24 with JEE 4GF/2GA
360:57 with Freddy G 12GF/14GA (402:01 total without Freddy G 8GF/11GA)
-16:40 mins is most any 2+Boldy have been together.

I'm up for bashing on Freddy G, but the on ice results are Boldy is much better with him than anyone else in the lineup. I don't think Boldy can handle the higher quality competition (just like the Playoffs last year). He might get there with time, but he's not there yet. This is fine for a guy on his ELC, or a $3m-$4m x 2 bridge deal (Nino/Granny range), but not fine for a $7mx7 player.
 

Dr Jan Itor

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Boldy 5v5 linemates:
141:31 with Kap 2GF/5GA
171:24 with JEE 4GF/2GA
360:57 with Freddy G 12GF/14GA (402:01 total without Freddy G 8GF/11GA)
-16:40 mins is most any 2+Boldy have been together.

I'm up for bashing on Freddy G, but the on ice results are Boldy is much better with him than anyone else in the lineup. I don't think Boldy can handle the higher quality competition (just like the Playoffs last year). He might get there with time, but he's not there yet. This is fine for a guy on his ELC, or a $3m-$4m x 2 bridge deal (Nino/Granny range), but not fine for a $7mx7 player.
He technically isn’t that yet.
 
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