GDT: G31: Cuban Sammiches @ Mumbo Sauce central - 7pm

[Ridley Simon]

On paper, Milano-Kuzy-Pacioretty is not bad for a 3rd line.

I’m not down w that. Once everyone is healthy?

Milano or Oshie needs to sit. I vote Milano.

Lines, in no particular order:

Pacioretty - Kuznetsov - Miroschnichenko
Mantha - McMichael - Protas
Lapierre - Dowd - Oshie
Ovechkin - Strome - Wilson

Who is one? Who is four? Milano replaces injury.

Lots of moving parts. But wow the combinations that HCSC can work with!

They’re playing good hockey, they just really lack dynamic offensive talent. Don’t think anyone is on pace for 70 points this year. They have an unbelievable record if they score more than 2+ goals which should not feel like a Herculean effort every night.

No one is on pace for 60pts, as I think I stated in the other thread.

But a LOT of guys are 40-60pts projected players. Like almost 3 full lines. So, it’s the depth of good players, not the need for a few great ones.

 

[HTFN]

I’m not down w that. Once everyone is healthy?

Milano or Oshie needs to sit. I vote Milano.

Lines, in no particular order:

Pacioretty - Kuznetsov - Miroschnichenko
Mantha - McMichael - Protas
Lapierre - Dowd - Oshie
Ovechkin - Strome - Wilson

Who is one? Who is four? Milano replaces injury.

Lots of moving parts. But wow the combinations that HCSC can work with!


No one is on pace for 60pts, as I think I stated in the other thread.

But a LOT of guys are 40-60pts projected players. Like almost 3 full lines. So, it’s the depth of good players, not the need for a few great ones.

I like playing young kids, I do, but there's no functional reason to play Miro over Milano right now. Next year that'd be a talk to have if Mantha isn't departing and wants to take another one-year show-me contract, but right now... just no point in it.

Oshie's also just done. I know you're bullish on it but it's very much not an age related thing, and very specific to his wear and tear and the frequency we see him on IR. It should be over sooner rather than later. Let him hit 1,000 games and then take a seat, and there's no reason to rush it at the rate he's getting hurt.

Seriously, if Oshie played once every 3 games he'd probably still have some value and pack a punch, but he can't do it daily anymore at all.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I like playing young kids, I do, but there's no functional reason to play Miro over Milano right now. Next year that'd be a talk to have if Mantha isn't departing and wants to take another one-year show-me contract, but right now... just no point in it.

But…..why?

 

[HTFN]

But…..why?

Honest answer? Because I've still got some memory of last year's Milano and as much as I'm loathe to say it, I think his overall experience and refinement does more good for this team which is playing very much within the margins than an unknown development.

If Miro was the guy leading the AHL in goals we'd be fully on the same page, but for a pretty similar reason I'm not screaming for a Dube debut right now I'm kind of fine letting Miro see a few games and then go back. He shows enough to be good, don't get me wrong, it's not like I'm not seeing it, I just want him developing in the role they see him in and hope that's not "chip-in" contributions.

Getting a taste and really physically knowing where your offseason needs to be is a thing you can't explain, you have to get kids in there and let them feel firsthand how behind they are in elements of the game, so I'm 100% on board with the callup...

but Miro doesn't need to be a daily player yet. Lapierre is a bridge I'm willing to extend similar to McMichael last year, because he's doing good things (like CMM) and just not 100% there yet, but the things he'd learn in a continued role here would do more to supercharge him than a continued AHL stretch and he doesn't need one the way CMM did after being mindf***ed all year.

Let Miro be that guy next year

 

[Ridley Simon]

Honest answer? Because I've still got some memory of last year's Milano and as much as I'm loathe to say it, I think his overall experience and refinement does more good for this team which is playing very much within the margins than an unknown development.

If Miro was the guy leading the AHL in goals we'd be fully on the same page, but for a pretty similar reason I'm not screaming for a Dube debut right now I'm kind of fine letting Miro see a few games and then go back. He shows enough to be good, don't get me wrong, it's not like I'm not seeing it, I just want him developing in the role they see him in and hope that's not "chip-in" contributions.

Getting a taste and really physically knowing where your offseason needs to be is a thing you can't explain, you have to get kids in there and let them feel firsthand how behind they are in elements of the game, so I'm 100% on board with the callup...

but Miro doesn't need to be a daily player yet. Lapierre is a bridge I'm willing to extend similar to McMichael last year, because he's doing good things (like CMM) and just not 100% there yet, but the things he'd learn in a continued role here would do more to supercharge him than a continued AHL stretch and he doesn't need one the way CMM did after being mindf***ed all year.

Let Miro be that guy next year

I hear you.

I just don’t agree w you.

I love the passion and energy and vibrancy that the kids bring. Miro wants it. As does Lapierre. And as does McMichael. And assuredly as does Protas.

The young guns aren’t embarrassing themselves defensively, are are adding an offensive boost that this team needs.

I know it’s not all for them we are taking about, it’s just Miro. But man. Trade Milano and a d-man for a better d-man, and go with the kids.

That’s just me. The future is now. IMO.

 

[HTFN]

I hear you.

I just don’t agree w you.

I love the passion and energy and vibrancy that the kids bring. Miro wants it. As does Lapierre. And as does McMichael. And assuredly as does Protas.

The young guns aren’t embarrassing themselves defensively, are are adding an offensive boost that this team needs.

I know it’s not all for them we are taking about, it’s just Miro. But man. Trade Milano and a d-man for a better d-man, and go with the kids.

That’s just me. The future is now. IMO.

See, now we're speaking a different language. If you want to flip Milano for parts and there's a buyer then I'm team Miro all the way, let's just get the transition going and stop pretending (and this is the year to start, with the graceful exit of Backstrom).

I'm fully on team "youth brings it, and sometimes brings shit you didn't know you wanted" because we've seen it over the last 20+ years especially as Caps fans.

It's just that as a sort-of cautious person I'd cook Miro in the AHL if I could, as the situation sits now. They have too many wingers with Pacioretty coming back anyway, so as it stands now the best thing to do is probably to send him back to the AHL with a good solid taste of the NHL and make him reconcile what he needs to do. Let guys like Phillips keep taking those spot reps and lower ice time games, Miro just needs tastes to see where he needs to be anyway.

I have a lot of faith in him as a first round pedigree prospect to do it, and it seems like he's really got his head on his shoulders to achieve his goals (and I can't f***ing imagine how cancer might have solidified that but I bet it did), he's going to find a way whether it's first line or fourth. I just want him cooking as a top-6 all the way and using these moments as tastes and then going back to the AHL to beat lesser competitors in new ways, and keep doing that.

 

[bacchist]

If Miro was the guy leading the AHL in goals we'd be fully on the same page, but for a pretty similar reason I'm not screaming for a Dube debut right now I'm kind of fine letting Miro see a few games and then go back.

Dube is tied for the AHL lead in goals, though

 

[HTFN]

Dube is tied for the AHL lead in goals, though

Well aware, kind of the point of mentioning him. If Miro were the guy doing that then based on his pedigree I'd be fine trying it out, but overall the Caps have a numbers problem and I'm fine letting some guys cook right now

 

[Ridley Simon]

See, now we're speaking a different language. If you want to flip Milano for parts and there's a buyer then I'm team Miro all the way, let's just get the transition going and stop pretending (and this is the year to start, with the graceful exit of Backstrom).

I'm fully on team "youth brings it, and sometimes brings shit you didn't know you wanted" because we've seen it over the last 20+ years especially as Caps fans.

It's just that as a sort-of cautious person I'd cook Miro in the AHL if I could, as the situation sits now. They have too many wingers with Pacioretty coming back anyway, so as it stands now the best thing to do is probably to send him back to the AHL with a good solid taste of the NHL and make him reconcile what he needs to do. Let guys like Phillips keep taking those spot reps and lower ice time games, Miro just needs tastes to see where he needs to be anyway.

I have a lot of faith in him as a first round pedigree prospect to do it, and it seems like he's really got his head on his shoulders to achieve his goals (and I can't f***ing imagine how cancer might have solidified that but I bet it did), he's going to find a way whether it's first line or fourth. I just want him cooking as a top-6 all the way and using these moments as tastes and then going back to the AHL to beat lesser competitors in new ways, and keep doing that.

Being conservative isn’t a bad thing. I don’t really think it’s an “either/or” at this juncture. Not yet.

I do think that come playoff time (assuming they stay in that mix, as a team), everyone would be better suited to play the best players. I think all 4 of the kids will be in that discussion, when that time comes.

And I DO think this team can use some upgrades (Altho I also do not think they have any massive weakness that needs to be addressed, save maybe more actual offense from the blue line), and a 2 for 1 hockey trade would make a lot of sense.

The Caps may be weaker than a lot of teams at the top end, but they are also stronger than most teams at the bottom. Broader base of talent.

 

[HTFN]

Being conservative isn’t a bad thing. I don’t really think it’s an “either/or” at this juncture. Not yet.

I do think that come playoff time (assuming they stay in that mix, as a team), everyone would be better suited to play the best players. I think all 4 of the kids will be in that discussion, when that time comes.

And I DO think this team can use some upgrades (Altho I also do not think they have any massive weakness that needs to be addressed, save maybe more actual offense from the blue line), and a 2 for 1 hockey trade would make a lot of sense.

The Caps may be weaker than a lot of teams at the top end, but they are also stronger than most teams at the bottom. Broader base of talent.

Caps basically play the game the Islanders always think they play before they realize they're actually just boring.

Maybe not from a direct identity perspective in how because again, they're not so boring, but certainly in their "from the bottom up" way of doing things and ability to win with small leads and in close games. Very big on all that, love to see it.

Was previously pushing the CMM thing really hard last year so it's not something I'm against as a practice, I just think they get more as an organization out of giving Miro tastes without penciling him in for anything long-term yet. Play a few, and then maybe let him return if Pacioretty goes back on IR and has to call it quits or something. He basically needs a bit of what Lapierre got, where it's a handful of tastes and then a lot more time in the AHL to refine the lessons learned. Some of it will be stick skills and positioning, some of it will be going into the offseason knowing how much measurably stronger/faster you need to be to succeed, and that obviously can't all happen at once.

It makes me sound almost contrarian to suggest playing Milano and Phillips in these situations after all of last year but I think from a development standpoint limiting it to a taste and then letting him think could provide broader results as a whole.

I think Carbery has also shown to be a good development coach, so if he doesn't need him around right now it's for a reason and I might be filling space to find it, but it just feels inherently different than how Laviolette was treating players.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Caps basically play the game the Islanders always think they play before they realize they're actually just boring.

Maybe not from a direct identity perspective in how because again, they're not so boring, but certainly in their "from the bottom up" way of doing things and ability to win with small leads and in close games. Very big on all that, love to see it.

Was previously pushing the CMM thing really hard last year so it's not something I'm against as a practice, I just think they get more as an organization out of giving Miro tastes without penciling him in for anything long-term yet. Play a few, and then maybe let him return if Pacioretty goes back on IR and has to call it quits or something. He basically needs a bit of what Lapierre got, where it's a handful of tastes and then a lot more time in the AHL to refine the lessons learned. Some of it will be stick skills and positioning, some of it will be going into the offseason knowing how much measurably stronger/faster you need to be to succeed, and that obviously can't all happen at once.

It makes me sound almost contrarian to suggest playing Milano and Phillips in these situations after all of last year but I think from a development standpoint limiting it to a taste and then letting him think could provide broader results as a whole.

I think Carbery has also shown to be a good development coach, so if he doesn't need him around right now it's for a reason and I might be filling space to find it, but it just feels inherently different than how Laviolette was treating players.

Laviolette is a players coach, so long as you are one of his players. If not, he had an ugly doghouse. He also obviously valued experience very highly.

Carberry is also a players coach, and I have yet to witness a real doghouse from him. He penalizes players for playing poorly (well, more for playing thoughtlessly), but it’s a “one and done” thing, not a long stay in his own mental penalty box. Candidly, he seems far far far more sensitive than Laviolette does. And that’s great for young players.

So they are different for sure. But not abjectedly. It’s their daily approach as well as how they move on from problems, that varies greatly. Just IMO, and of course Carberry is just starting while Laviolette is a legend.

Anyway, TL; DR.

Merry Christmas!!

PS — what worked for CMM and/or Lappy, doesn’t have to be “the way” with Miro. He’s far more dynamic, IMO, and perhaps doesn’t need the seasoning as much as the 2 young C’s do (did?).

 

[YippieKaey]

Carberry also seems more able than PL to adjust his system to the roster, seeing PL trying to turn TvR into Makar was a bit weird.

 

[DWGie26]

I’m with @HTFN on this one. Maybe it is because i have been a caps fan for 40 some years but I believe in letting prospects develop in AHL and other places. We haven’t had high end picks that can jump quickly. Miro and Leonard are probably the first two who can actually do that jump prior to 20. McMichael benefited. Fever might have been early. I think Lapierre and Miro could be ready now, but they benefit more from time in Hershey especially since that is a pretty special team.

That said I would be down with hockey trades to try and improve. Probably not on the Dee side though. I think Ethan Bear will help us get younger and bring more offense. Iorio will be waiver exempt and should play more than a few games next year. But we need to move TVR/Jensen as part of the Bear signing.

So for this year… develop Miro, Lapierre, and Iorio in Hershey. Develop McMichael, Protas, and Malenstyn in Washington. Refine Carbery systems in NHL with players whom can be here for a while. We have a good amount of depth with mix of youth and vets to compete this year. Look for some trades in offseason including Kuzy, TVR, Jensen, Milano. Maybe get a young 1C like Petterson which will require giving up prospects and picks which will be painful but that will be a young core to build off of.

 

[HTFN]

Laviolette is a players coach, so long as you are one of his players. If not, he had an ugly doghouse. He also obviously valued experience very highly.

Carberry is also a players coach, and I have yet to witness a real doghouse from him. He penalizes players for playing poorly (well, more for playing thoughtlessly), but it’s a “one and done” thing, not a long stay in his own mental penalty box. Candidly, he seems far far far more sensitive than Laviolette does. And that’s great for young players.

So they are different for sure. But not abjectedly. It’s their daily approach as well as how they move on from problems, that varies greatly. Just IMO, and of course Carberry is just starting while Laviolette is a legend.

Anyway, TL; DR.

Merry Christmas!!

PS — what worked for CMM and/or Lappy, doesn’t have to be “the way” with Miro. He’s far more dynamic, IMO, and perhaps doesn’t need the seasoning as much as the 2 young C’s do (did?).

I think we’re seeing the same basic thing and articulating it different, because I agree that Miro might not need it in the same way a guy like Lapierre did due to his frame and tools. I just also happen to think it works for right now with where they are roster-wise

We also solidly agree on the difference between the two coaches and what Carbery is doing well regarding coaching what he sees and then letting his players be pros about fixing it instead of shutting them down for mistakes.

To me I think that’s a huge difference, they basically had a coach going “this isn’t a development league” to one who seems to say “why should anyone stop developing no matter who you are?” And is facilitating that with youth and veterans alike, and all of this is great.