Future Wings Defense...those available to trade

Octopus

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May 17, 2006
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Here's my attempt to predict the future of the Wings D so comment as you wish. More importantly, given the Trade deadline coming up, I'm hoping they can package a quality D prospect with Bernier, Ryan or Staal as an example to maybe pry away a first round pick in the second half of the upcoming draft.

My top 6, (1) 2021 1st pick assuming they pick a LHD and get someone like Power or Hughes and to that add the following:
Hronek, Seider, Johansson, Wallinder, Tuomisto

That leaves some quality prospects they can part with if needed like McIsaac, Viro, Cholowski, Berglund, and on and on.

Thoughts?
 

OgeeOgelthorpe

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Feb 29, 2020
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Here's my attempt to predict the future of the Wings D so comment as you wish. More importantly, given the Trade deadline coming up, I'm hoping they can package a quality D prospect with Bernier, Ryan or Staal as an example to maybe pry away a first round pick in the second half of the upcoming draft.

My top 6, (1) 2021 1st pick assuming they pick a LHD and get someone like Power or Hughes and to that add the following:
Hronek, Seider, Johansson, Wallinder, Tuomisto

That leaves some quality prospects they can part with if needed like McIsaac, Viro, Cholowski, Berglund, and on and on.

Thoughts?

This is something I've given some thought to because of the way the cap is structured.

So for this hypothetical situation, let's assume we end up with Hughes, Power, Lambos or Edvinsson. (LD) with Seider coming in as #1RD next year.

If Tuomisto(RD) pans out as a solid #4 or #5 guy with a shot tailored for the powerplay, then either he could be moved or Hronek could be moved depending on the return. We're more certain that Hronek is the better player now, but can Hronek be moved for an upgrade at forward somewhere, and can his hole be plugged by an incoming free agent while Tuomisto finishes his college career?

Johansson(LD) is looking to be a very solid puck moving D option that could become a complementary 1st pairing guy with someone like Seider, or if we put him on the 2nd unit with another solid defensive RD. I don't think he moves, but it could also mean that Wallinder becomes a prospect trading chip because he is very raw.

I've said Wallinder(LD) could be a Brendan Smith or Jakub Kindl where you think, "Why the f*** did he make that pass across his crease?!" or he could become an Alex Edler where you're saying, "Wow! What great skating! Why doesn't he rush the puck like that more often?!" and I think Yzerman puts a lot more emphasis on hockey sense than raw tools so this is why I think he'd be quicker to move on from Wallinder if that area of his game doesn't improve. The kid only has 6 points and is -12 in the Allsvenskan this year so

McIsaac(LD) if he ever gets past his shoulder injury problems (I totally empathize here) then I think he could become a solid bottom 4 guy. I'd liken him to a poor man's Brad Stuart to possibly our next Brad Stuart. Very good athleticism, willingness to play physical, has decent puck skills but is more defensive minded. The likelihood of him moving is based on how easy it will be for us to get a physical bottom pair, PK1 kind of guy either as an FA or through trade.

Viro(LD) could be anything, at the moment. Such a good skater, and his offense is improving. Realistically I think he ends up as a #5-6 guy that can move the puck up ice with a good first pass or by skating it out of trouble, but if that's where he tops out then he's someone that could be moved easier than others. Does he become Esa Lindell? Does he become Bart Lebda or Nick Jensen?

Cholowski(LD) is someone that needs to show he can make it by the end of this season or he's probably on the outs. I think he's probably out and for cheap. Much lower than a 1st rounder.

Berglund(RD) is a guy that 100% needs to be in the SHL. He looked really good from the very limited viewing I saw of him at the WJC, but that's not enough to really tell if he's just going to be a solid SHL pro, or if he's got something that could turn him into a good NHLer.

Sebrango(LD) I'm on the fence about. He's a guy that I'm not sure what he turns into, but I feel good that he was one of the few players invited to Canada's camp that wasn't a first rounder. I haven't seen enough of him to really comment, though.

The list above shows that we have a lot of LD prospects, but drafting Hughes or Power would really give us a lot more options in building our lineup and allow us to trade some of these guys to improve other areas. I'd say that Cholowski, Viro and Wallinder are tradeable assets in the future with the possibility of McIsaac being on that list. For this year.

I think it's a great idea to hold onto Troy Stecher and Jon Merrill because they have been steady, if unspectacular this season. And I think they'd serve us well in a role on the bottom pair if we could improve our middle pair. They're affordable, tradeable, and replaceable players that will allow us to develop the prospects. And if the bottom tier prospects don't pan out then we keep them or we find other FAs to replace them.


TLDR: Mcisaac, Cholowski and Wallinder could be used to upgrade a pick. Viro could be used to add a pick, but I wouldn't trade him away yet.
 
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Jonas Mahonas

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Johansson - Seider
McIsaac - Hronek
Wallinder - Viro/UFA/Other draft pick

Everyone else should be available for trade
 

William Rusco

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Dec 16, 2020
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I would like to see more of Lindstrom to see what he brings to the table. I liked what I saw in the limited time he had in Detroit last season.
 

PullHard

Jul 18, 2007
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After the Ouellet, Sproul, Jensen, Marchenko group all busted I don't really want to assume anything until I can see them playing at the NHL level consistently. I figured that group all had much higher floors than they do currently and I think defensemen have hard development paths to predict, at least for me. I'm sure our front office has more of a handle on the situation than I do (obviously - it is their job) but I think in terms of fan speculation there is only so much we can plan for right now.
 

OgeeOgelthorpe

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Feb 29, 2020
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After the Ouellet, Sproul, Jensen, Marchenko group all busted I don't really want to assume anything until I can see them playing at the NHL level consistently. I figured that group all had much higher floors than they do currently and I think defensemen have hard development paths to predict, at least for me. I'm sure our front office has more of a handle on the situation than I do (obviously - it is their job) but I think in terms of fan speculation there is only so much we can plan for right now.

I think the press gave us unrealistic hopes about those guys.

Oullet played almost identical to Danny Groulx. I never had high hopes.
Sproul always made Brendan Smith look smart.
Marchenko could have been a good bottom pair guy but he had screws put in his ankle.
Jensen is what he always was: a good skating bottom pair guy.

None of those prospects had the potential or pedigree that our current crop has. It’s apples to oranges.
 

PullHard

Jul 18, 2007
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I think the press gave us unrealistic hopes about those guys.

Oullet played almost identical to Danny Groulx. I never had high hopes.
Sproul always made Brendan Smith look smart.
Marchenko could have been a good bottom pair guy but he had screws put in his ankle.
Jensen is what he always was: a good skating bottom pair guy.

None of those prospects had the potential or pedigree that our current crop has. It’s apples to oranges.

I don't 100% disagree, I think every fanbase will be guilty of building their guys up, but a lot of your post seems like hindsight

Ouellet won QMJHL and CHL dman of the year at one point
Sproul won OHL dman of the year at one point
Jensen won a collegiate dman of the year award at one point

These guys were pretty damn legit prospects and players until they turned pro
 

OgeeOgelthorpe

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Feb 29, 2020
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I don't 100% disagree, I think every fanbase will be guilty of building their guys up, but a lot of your post seems like hindsight

Ouellet won QMJHL and CHL dman of the year at one point
Sproul won OHL dman of the year at one point
Jensen won a collegiate dman of the year award at one point

These guys were pretty damn legit prospects and players until they turned pro

Because of skating for Oullet. Danny Groulx was a 100 point dman in the QMJHL at a point. Couldn’t skate for shit and wasn’t big or strong enough to offset it. Watching Oullet was seriously like going back 10 years for me.
 
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bellringer77

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Nov 14, 2017
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I feel like McIsaac and Hronek would compliment each other well and Hronek will have some experience too at that point help these younger guys. As weird as that sounds. I don’t think you trade Hronek unless a great trade comes by or every guy you listed booms. You have to have some experience on your backend. Not that you were stating to trade him I just don’t think it’s even being considered and won’t be for the time being. He’s the only one on that list that has stuck on the team. Cholowski being the only other one that has even played in the NHL
 

Ghost of Ethan Hunt

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Jun 23, 2018
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I feel like McIsaac and Hronek would compliment each other well and Hronek will have some experience too at that point help these younger guys. As weird as that sounds. I don’t think you trade Hronek unless a great trade comes by or every guy you listed booms. You have to have some experience on your backend. Not that you were stating to trade him I just don’t think it’s even being considered and won’t be for the time being. He’s the only one on that list that has stuck on the team. Cholowski being the only other one that has even played in the NHL
Lindstrom got a 16gp cup of Java last season, played steady, poised, solid D. For some reason I'm more excited for his potential than Cholo's, guessing because Lindstrom has a higher NHL probability/ability to stick & a safe, no nonsense game. Cholo's ceiling isn't any higher imo, it was 'til 2 years ago, when he regressed.
 

Henkka

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Think half of the DEFENCE at success era will come in after a trade. That's how Yzerman suffled things at Tampa.

He will send some prospects like "Hajek+Howden" for "McDonagh", after some prospect seasoning, and goes after the experienced stud.

Seider is future LOCK, but tough to guess other guys after him. Almost impossible to determine who would be traded, but I'm quite sure there will be many trades. Somehow I have a gut feeling that the three guys who are Detroit defence after 5 years, are Seider, Wallinder and Tuomisto.

Think Hronek could end up being traded. Cholowski too.

Tampa Cup defence was

Hedman = own prospect
Shattenkirk = UFA signing
McDonagh = traded, sent some D-prospects away
Cernak = traded at young age from LAK
Sergachev = traded from MTL
Bogosian = traded veteran, deadline deal, gone after the Cup
Coburn = UFA signing
Rutta = UFA signing
Schenn = UFA signing

Hedman was the only own prospect.

But Tampa has drafted NHL defencemen, like Radgo Gudas, Nikita Nesterov, Tony Deangelo, Libor Hajek during the Yzerman era. All were just traded away at young age.

I'll expect the same happen at Detroit.

Only Seider is a LOCK and our "Hedman".
 
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kliq

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Dec 17, 2017
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I don't 100% disagree, I think every fanbase will be guilty of building their guys up, but a lot of your post seems like hindsight

Ouellet won QMJHL and CHL dman of the year at one point
Sproul won OHL dman of the year at one point
Jensen won a collegiate dman of the year award at one point

These guys were pretty damn legit prospects and players until they turned pro

I'm not sure who you are thinking of, but Ouellet never won CHL or QMJHL D-man of the year. The only thing XO ever "won" was first team all star in 2012 and 2013.

Sproul won both OHL and CHL D-man of the year in 2012/13.
 

Henkka

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Jan 31, 2004
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I don't 100% disagree, I think every fanbase will be guilty of building their guys up, but a lot of your post seems like hindsight

Ouellet won QMJHL and CHL dman of the year at one point
Sproul won OHL dman of the year at one point
Jensen won a collegiate dman of the year award at one point

These guys were pretty damn legit prospects and players until they turned pro

It was a weak class, like NHL proved it later on. Those guys were nothing against stronges classes in NHL.

It's funny how it goes.

2011 defenceman class will produce weak 2012 forward class, because they did play against easy competition. Yakupov and Glachenyuk as the "stars", but same way, no chance against NHL talent when the draft class will face other stronger classes.
 

deca guard

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Jun 22, 2019
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trade which ever vets we can off roster , ryan - bernier - glenny , for draft picks and draft more dmen . forget drafting any more small wingers , just keep piling up d prospects as you need a smart , good sized , soft handed defense to succeed in nhl . and if a good ufa dmen pops up on the ufa radar that seems too old for our window still sign him hoping to get another old vet dman on a long career like cheli and murph = the old scotty bowman trick . plus he would be there as a teacher = of mega importance
 

Hockeyfannnn91

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Jan 26, 2019
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Seider,johansson are 100% untouchable id even add wallinder to that mix cause hakan is high on him and im sure yzerman values his input

Everyone else is fair game and can be shopped at any time with yzerman as gm , i sure as shit hope we see cholowski play a good 15-20 games and help the power play before we completely write him off after seeing how we’re treating svechnikov who’s actually producing. Blashill is completely clueless
 

deca guard

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i will never understand the logic of trading young d prospects that have very low worth right now but in a few years might develop into a valuable player when were trying to build our defense
 

Winger98

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Feb 27, 2002
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i will never understand the logic of trading young d prospects that have very low worth right now but in a few years might develop into a valuable player when were trying to build our defense

Because their value right now, while it might seem low, would still be higher than a year from now if they play in the NHL and fail. Or if they can't win a job in the NHL if they are expected to. Etc. It's all about how much you trust your organization to accurately evaluate a guy's long term potential versus what you can get in a trade.
 

lilidk

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Mar 4, 2008
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This is something I've given some thought to because of the way the cap is structured.

So for this hypothetical situation, let's assume we end up with Hughes, Power, Lambos or Edvinsson. (LD) with Seider coming in as #1RD next year.

If Tuomisto(RD) pans out as a solid #4 or #5 guy with a shot tailored for the powerplay, then either he could be moved or Hronek could be moved depending on the return. We're more certain that Hronek is the better player now, but can Hronek be moved for an upgrade at forward somewhere, and can his hole be plugged by an incoming free agent while Tuomisto finishes his college career?

Johansson(LD) is looking to be a very solid puck moving D option that could become a complementary 1st pairing guy with someone like Seider, or if we put him on the 2nd unit with another solid defensive RD. I don't think he moves, but it could also mean that Wallinder becomes a prospect trading chip because he is very raw.

I've said Wallinder(LD) could be a Brendan Smith or Jakub Kindl where you think, "Why the f*** did he make that pass across his crease?!" or he could become an Alex Edler where you're saying, "Wow! What great skating! Why doesn't he rush the puck like that more often?!" and I think Yzerman puts a lot more emphasis on hockey sense than raw tools so this is why I think he'd be quicker to move on from Wallinder if that area of his game doesn't improve. The kid only has 6 points and is -12 in the Allsvenskan this year so

McIsaac(LD) if he ever gets past his shoulder injury problems (I totally empathize here) then I think he could become a solid bottom 4 guy. I'd liken him to a poor man's Brad Stuart to possibly our next Brad Stuart. Very good athleticism, willingness to play physical, has decent puck skills but is more defensive minded. The likelihood of him moving is based on how easy it will be for us to get a physical bottom pair, PK1 kind of guy either as an FA or through trade.

Viro(LD) could be anything, at the moment. Such a good skater, and his offense is improving. Realistically I think he ends up as a #5-6 guy that can move the puck up ice with a good first pass or by skating it out of trouble, but if that's where he tops out then he's someone that could be moved easier than others. Does he become Esa Lindell? Does he become Bart Lebda or Nick Jensen?

Cholowski(LD) is someone that needs to show he can make it by the end of this season or he's probably on the outs. I think he's probably out and for cheap. Much lower than a 1st rounder.

Berglund(RD) is a guy that 100% needs to be in the SHL. He looked really good from the very limited viewing I saw of him at the WJC, but that's not enough to really tell if he's just going to be a solid SHL pro, or if he's got something that could turn him into a good NHLer.

Sebrango(LD) I'm on the fence about. He's a guy that I'm not sure what he turns into, but I feel good that he was one of the few players invited to Canada's camp that wasn't a first rounder. I haven't seen enough of him to really comment, though.

The list above shows that we have a lot of LD prospects, but drafting Hughes or Power would really give us a lot more options in building our lineup and allow us to trade some of these guys to improve other areas. I'd say that Cholowski, Viro and Wallinder are tradeable assets in the future with the possibility of McIsaac being on that list. For this year.

I think it's a great idea to hold onto Troy Stecher and Jon Merrill because they have been steady, if unspectacular this season. And I think they'd serve us well in a role on the bottom pair if we could improve our middle pair. They're affordable, tradeable, and replaceable players that will allow us to develop the prospects. And if the bottom tier prospects don't pan out then we keep them or we find other FAs to replace them.


TLDR: Mcisaac, Cholowski and Wallinder could be used to upgrade a pick. Viro could be used to add a pick, but I wouldn't trade him away yet.
Awesome post, you probably spend a lot of time watching prospects. What do you think about our forwards
 
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ShelbyZ

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Apr 8, 2015
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I think the press gave us unrealistic hopes about those guys.

Oullet played almost identical to Danny Groulx. I never had high hopes.
Sproul always made Brendan Smith look smart.
Marchenko could have been a good bottom pair guy but he had screws put in his ankle.
Jensen is what he always was: a good skating bottom pair guy.

None of those prospects had the potential or pedigree that our current crop has. It’s apples to oranges.

IIRC, in the case of XO and Marchenko, Babcock also added to the overhype a bit. I kind of remember Babcock lobbying for Ouellet to make the NHL roster as early as the 2014 off-season, and when they'd get called up, his insistence on using XO and Marchenko over established vets or "sexier upside" young dmen already on the roster added to their hype similar to how he'd done with guys like Lebda and Lashoff. And since the genius coach favored them in such a way, that meant to HSJ and co. that they must be the real deal.
 
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Ricelund

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IIRC, in the case of XO and Marchenko, Babcock also added to the overhype a bit. I kind of remember Babcock lobbying for Ouellet to make the NHL roster as early as the 2014 off-season, and when they'd get called up, his insistence on using XO and Marchenko over established vets or "sexier upside" young dmen already on the roster added to their hype similar to how he'd done with guys like Lebda and Lashoff. And since the genius coach favored them in such a way, that meant to HSJ and co. that they must be the real deal.
Yeah, Blashill hyped these guys up too.

I remember him saying something along the lines of "Red Wings fans have seen the guys we've developed up front the past few years (referring to Nyquist, Tatar, etc.) -- just wait until you see what we have coming on defense."
 

ShelbyZ

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Apr 8, 2015
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Yeah, Blashill hyped these guys up too.

I remember him saying something along the lines of "Red Wings fans have seen the guys we've developed up front the past few years (referring to Nyquist, Tatar, etc.) -- just wait until you see what we have coming on defense."

Maybe he was referring to forwards like Pulkkinen, Jurco and Sheahan :laugh::help:
 

OgeeOgelthorpe

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Awesome post, you probably spend a lot of time watching prospects. What do you think about our forwards

They're real good at hockey stuff. :thumbu:

Also considering my job allows me to work from home with little to no oversight while also completely overpaying me for, and under-utilizing my talents, I get to watch a lot of hockey streams while I'm supposed to be "working".
 

19 for president

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Apr 28, 2002
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XO, Marchenko, Sproul, Kindl, Smith, Almquist, Backman, Jensen, Cholo etc have built up enough anxiety in me to not trust the Wings ability to draft & develop dmen lol. Right now the only ones I'm looking at as legit NHL prospects are Johansson and Seider. Seider would have been in the NHL today if it weren't for COVID and Johansson skates too well to not at least get a cup of coffee. I'm not counting on any of Wallinder, Tuo, Sebrango, McIssac (too many injuries at this point), Cholo (make or break this year) or Viro to make it. Lindstrom is a fine 6/7 but doesn't have the skills to be more then that.

Seider- (Hopefully LD 2021 Draft)
Hronek- (UFA or Johansson)
UFA- (UFA or Johansson)
Lindstrom

I fully expect Stevie to get a top 4 LD at some point in the near future, and with the plethora of LD in the 2021 draft, I'm hoping we land the right one. I think Stevie was holding off to better eval Seider and Johansson. Hronek is a solid 3 that could maybe play up the lineup in his prime, but right now is being overmatched.

Seider is my only untouchable from the group and Johansson is the only other one I'm holding on to unless we are getting a really good young dman back.
 
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