Frustration!

[101st_fan]

From 3 Jan 2014 ....

Weber with a PPG then another minus. if his +/- wasnt so pathetic, he would be getting some attention around the league

It seems I wasn't the only one noticing these things around mid season.

Fast forward to Norris voting where only three players with a minus rating ever won the trophy.

 

[preds1]

We need players to play near their potential year in, year out. Guys like Stalberg scoring fewer goals in a full season as a Pred than he did in the lockout shortened season is unacceptable. Bourque disappearing is unacceptable. Wilson's struggling to score is unacceptable. There's three of our alleged top nine when the season started that failed to perform. Forsberg needs to adjust to the NA game and at least pretend to honor his responsibilities in the defensive end ... nobody expects him to compete for a Selke but honoring is zone is a must.

Good assessment, I agree. Might throw Cullen in that group, but he improved later in the season.
Just hope all 3 mentioned can break out and Lavi's system may help.
Of the 3, I'd put my money on Wilson, but time will tell.

 

[Predsboro]

Messrs. Kane and Toews say hello.

Exactly what I thought when I read that post ... but thought I'd wait until I read the thread before I commented that fact.

Should have know I could count on you JW ...

 

[triggrman]

Kane and Toews are not on that level, sorry, they're just not.

Neither have even broken the 90 pt mark, while Malkin and Crosby have broke the 110 point mark, Crosby the 120 point mark.

And neither Kane nor Toews have scored more than 34 goals, Stamkos, 60.

Both are great players but they are not, Malkin, Crosby or Stamkos, the top 3 centers in the NHL.

 

[101st_fan]

Good assessment, I agree. Might throw Cullen in that group, but he improved later in the season.
Just hope all 3 mentioned can break out and Lavi's system may help.
Of the 3, I'd put my money on Wilson, but time will tell.

Hornqvist's play deserves some talk as well. 9 of his 22 goals came in the final three weeks of the season (an 11 game stretch). He had only 11 goals through the end of February. He's a guy the team depends on for scoring but at the end of Feb he had just two more goals than Gaustad. Considering how little time Gaustad plays, that narrow goal differential through five months of play is a bit worrisome to me.

The Trotz system takes a lot of heat on these boards for allegedly stifling players. Yet Bourque put up 11 goals in 34 games and Wilson 7 goals in 25 games in that system during 2012-13. Hornqvist has four full seasons, 20+ goals in each including a 30 goal season. Smith blossomed last season under Trotz. Going back a while shows Radulov scoring in the system and Hartnell averaging over 20 goals per season in his final three as a Pred. That isn't to say that Trotz isn't a defensive minded coach and that some players just didn't fit in here ... but the common rants around the boards that nobody could ever score with him as a coach just don't hold up.

 

[maplepred]

NHL awards are a joke. I can't even watch anymore.

They try to be funny but either 'comedians' are just lame.
They play bad music.

It's just a lame event and all the players that win big trophies are from big hockey markets 99% of the time.

Chicago had way more people voting for Keith than Nashville does for webs.

The year pekka was nominated he should have won the vezina, had most wins and best gaa, but of course he didn't win.

Big market trumps anything.


If weber and rinne played for Toronto, Chicago, Boston, etc they would both have some hardware by now.

NHL awards is a joke. Period.

 

[triggrman]

Hornqvist's play deserves some talk as well. 9 of his 22 goals came in the final three weeks of the season (an 11 game stretch). He had only 11 goals through the end of February. He's a guy the team depends on for scoring but at the end of Feb he had just two more goals than Gaustad. Considering how little time Gaustad plays, that narrow goal differential through five months of play is a bit worrisome to me.

The Trotz system takes a lot of heat on these boards for allegedly stifling players. Yet Bourque put up 11 goals in 34 games and Wilson 7 goals in 25 games in that system during 2012-13. Hornqvist has four full seasons, 20+ goals in each including a 30 goal season. Smith blossomed last season under Trotz. Going back a while shows Radulov scoring in the system and Hartnell averaging over 20 goals per season in his final three as a Pred. That isn't to say that Trotz isn't a defensive minded coach and that some players just didn't fit in here ... but the common rants around the boards that nobody could ever score with him as a coach just don't hold up.

I think Trotz system (not including TOI decisions) didn't effect some of the wingers as much as it did centers. I do think he effected our team speed, and our puck possession, which added pressure to our defensemen.

 

[101st_fan]

I think Trotz system (not including TOI decisions) didn't effect some of the wingers as much as it did centers. I do think he effected our team speed, and our puck possession, which added pressure to our defensemen.

Yet the centers were the ones scoring. Both Fisher and Legwand were among six Preds with 40 or more points last season. Gaustad was 7th on the team in goals per 60mins of ES time in spite of his considerably lower offensive zone starts than anyone else on the roster.

I don't fault Trotz for systemic decisions. Execution was an issue for the guys on the ice many nights, with the random brain fart seemingly always resulting in a fatal goal allowed. Defensive focused hockey and capitalizing on errors can win games as it quite often from 2005-2012. I do fault the line combos and ice time decisions. Stalberg on a 4th line did nothing for him and resulted in a crap season for him where he was the square peg pounded into a round hole. The early season lines of a grinder on each didn't work and as soon as it became obvious that that guy wasn't serving as a net presence for the other two forwards to use as screens it should have been abandoned. Clune over some of the kids in Milwaukee ... huh?

Amazingly once the bigger name players on the roster started playing better, the team played better and finished 7-1-2 in the final ten games (one hell of a correlation to Hornqvist figuring out how to score). We need the January - April version of Weber all season long. We need the late season version of Hornqvist. We need Stalberg to play like a third or higher line player and become at least a complimentary scorer if he can't return to 20+ goal range. Couple that with the further growth of Jarnkrok's game and potentially Forsberg developing into a NHL caliber forward and things aren't as dark as these boards like to portray.

 

[preds1]

Hornqvist's play deserves some talk as well. 9 of his 22 goals came in the final three weeks of the season (an 11 game stretch). He had only 11 goals through the end of February. He's a guy the team depends on for scoring but at the end of Feb he had just two more goals than Gaustad. Considering how little time Gaustad plays, that narrow goal differential through five months of play is a bit worrisome to me.

True, stats are stats.
Guess I give him a break since we know his specialty, and his goals are typically reliant upon other players.
Can't park in front of the next if we're having trouble just getting it to center ice, then dumping it in.

 

[dougie1107]

I disagree on Rinne losing because of the market factor honestly. The only thing he had Lundqvist beat in was wins. Hank had three more shutouts, a GAA of 1.97 and a .930 SV%. Rinne had a 2.39 GAA and a .923 SV%.

It's unfortunate Thomas' 10-11 season was so incredible because Rinne's numbers that year were good enough to win it almost every other year.

 

[Enjoy i24 Traffic]

lol @ using stats to quantify a Norris winner.

We have clearly seen that those mean nothing.

 

[101st_fan]

lol @ using stats to quantify a Norris winner.

We have clearly seen that those mean nothing.

A player with a positive +/-, with 20+ assists, on a playoff team ... every winner has at least two of those three. Beyond that it gets into popularity with the voters.

 

[jwhouk]

Kane and Toews are not on that level, sorry, they're just not.

They've got more rings.

 

[triggrman]

They've got more rings.

Lots of players have more rings, doesn't make them better players just means they're on better teams.

Seabrook has more rings the Weber....

 

[jwhouk]

So does Keith. He also has more Norris Trophies than Weber.

 

[Dave is a killer]

Can we close this thread ? ...

 

[NoNecksCurse]

So does Keith. He also has more Norris Trophies than Weber.

not sure where you're going with this

 

[NSH615]

Can we close this thread ? ...

Well the thread was started because Keith won the Norris over Weber?? How does tonight change that?

 

[jwhouk]

not sure where you're going with this

Circling around to back where we started.

 

[nitrofan]

The Preds are my team, good, bad, or whatever else comes I will support them and root for them as long as they are here. Yes this season may not be pretty, yes we may not be a cup contender, no we may not sign some big name FA, but in the end it doesn't change the fact that I will still be cheering.

I may not like every move that is made, I may not like every decision or the way it is handled, but damnit this is my team, no matter who is on the ice.

As this is my 1st post this quote says it all. The Preds see the playoffs a lot more than many older clubs. I'm a relative new comer to the sport only watching the last 4 years and as I catch on to the way it's played this team has done very good.

 

[PredsV82]

As this is my 1st post this quote says it all. The Preds see the playoffs a lot more than many older clubs. I'm a relative new comer to the sport only watching the last 4 years and as I catch on to the way it's played this team has done very good.

Welcome to the board!

The perspective of someone who hasn't lived and breathed hockey forever is a good one to have. Glad you picked up the sport and this team.

 

[jwhouk]

I heard the presser replay this AM on Hockey This Morning.

Poile never really expected to be "shopping on the first day of free agency." In other words - forget it, unless it's a trade we're not gonna overpay to sign someone to come here.

 

[NSH615]

I heard the presser replay this AM on Hockey This Morning.

Poile never really expected to be "shopping on the first day of free agency." In other words - forget it, unless it's a trade we're not gonna overpay to sign someone to come here.

Which is crazy because that is what you have to do to get FA's unless you get lucky with a hometown discount.

I should say overpay and actually pick up the phone and call the players' agents to make offers is what you have to do.

 

[deanwormer]

I think the idea of overpaying is ok if:
a) it's that "one piece" you need to put you over, like trade-deadline deals, or
b) if you have absolutely nothing and got to have players.

I don't think we're either of those. Yes, obviously, we need a 1C - have for years, and we don't have one in the system. But, while it makes us better/more competitive, it doesn't put us in position to compete for the division yet. And clearly we have kids we need to give opportunities too, so why overpay a guy to come here instead of having the kids play?

It's different signing an OJ - contract is pretty cheap, gives some flexibility, some leadership, let's us play the kids but not put them in roles over their heads, so they learn instead of get overwhelmed. Plus, he's here for a year.

Yes, at the end of last year, I think you could say we needed to get 2 top6 Fs to skate a decent team this year. Well, we got one - we gave up goals in Horny, but he's a 3rd-liner and PP specialist, not a top6. We didn't really get the other, but I think between OJ and Cullen we'll manage well-enough, even if Poile can't add any other pieces.

Willy gets his role - it's time. Hook plays up if he's ready, but we can afford to let him have a half-season at Milw if necessary and won't hurt doing it. We got depth back to cover Spals loss as emergency C, for the inevitable time Mr. Underwood will spend on the shelf.

It's not enough to compete for the division, but it is enough to be in for the PO hunt, even if it's the last spot, assuming Poile comes up with a LH KK or better to play on the 2nd pair and be a warrior on the PK.

 

[weeze]

the preds are my team, good, bad, or whatever else comes i will support them and root for them as long as they are here. Yes this season may not be pretty, yes we may not be a cup contender, no we may not sign some big name fa, but in the end it doesn't change the fact that i will still be cheering.

I may not like every move that is made, i may not like every decision or the way it is handled, but damnit this is my team, no matter who is on the ice.

word!