Sportsnet: Friedman: Maple Leafs need to look inward for answers

[johnny_rudeboy]

Good article and a great line.

When you’re drowning, other GMs don’t throw you a lifejacket. They throw you a box of rocks, especially in a cap-tight world.

Something to think about.

 

[Leaf Army]

I have NEVER heard Friedmann be anything but objective and unbiased about the Leafs.

Perhaps he says good things about the Habs and bad things about the Leafs because the Habs are good and we're bad?

Probably the least biased reporter in hockey journalism.

Friedman doesn't like the Leafs and it's quite apparent to me when I watch him. Seems like a typical Habs fan.

Ten years ago everyone on this board would have hated him. But it's not just our team that's gone soft. Our fanbase has too.

I will admit that Friedman is an excellent reporter. He's very well connected and informed. But he's not a good analyst. He doesn't know the game that well.

 

[Wendel17]

Well said!!!!

But, deep down, we know the truth. Only we can change the situation. Only we can step up and say, “I’m going to do something different to try and make this better. Allowing this to stay the same every day is crazy.â€

It’s the same standard I’d expect from myself.

That’s where the Toronto Maple Leafs’ players are. Yeah, they’re not the only ones to blame. But it’s hard to look at them and say they’re doing enough to change it. If they want out of this situation, they’ve got to do much better job of convincing other teams they’re worth the investment.

 

[indigobuffalo]

Good article and a great line.

When you’re drowning, other GMs don’t throw you a lifejacket. They throw you a box of rocks, especially in a cap-tight world.

Something to think about.

The trick is always to find someone who could use a little more ballast.

 

[Mess]

Good article and a great line.

When you’re drowning, other GMs don’t throw you a lifejacket. They throw you a box of rocks, especially in a cap-tight world.

Something to think about.

He is spot on here in that while Leafs are highly motivated to make major changes the offers for their best players are not going to be market value but rather below as teams try and buy low based on poor player performance, and knowing Leafs are trying to unload them to force change.

We saw it at the trade deadline where the best offer for Phaneuf was Leafs needing to take a salary dump contract Weiss and even salary retention possibly for Wings willing to take Dion off Leafs hands. That might have been partially cap related mid season but they weren't willing to include and real prospects either.

That isn't a life jacket that is a box of rocks or essentially offing a drowning man a boat anchor as the saying goes.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

I guess there's that Corsi improvement thing we had going on.

All the way from 2nd-3rd worst 5v5 CF% in the league to... 4th worst.

What I don't understand is that we all know that winning games now means absolutely nothing. All it does is hurt you in the draft. How come the Sabres, Coyotes and Oilers got that memo yet whoever is running the Leafs did not? Who is making these decisions as far as putting a team on the ice that will constructively lose?

The Leafs are doing a pretty good job at losing recently, but they couldn't really have matched the sheer tanking ability of Buffalo or Arizona.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Friedman is a basketball guy and came from basketball. I don't get all the love for him.

Perhaps because we judge him on what he is saying and writing, not his background?

Let me guess, Howard Webb?

Haha yeah.

 

[Loosie]

Came from basketball but has been reporting on hockey for, what, 15 years?

He's right up there with McKenzie and Lebrun in terms of insider knowledge and insight. I really don't get the criticism.

Because he's saying bad things about the Leafs that are true.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I don't want them to look inward for answers anymore.
I don't want to beg them, baby them or discipline them.
I just want the majority of them to go now. Just go.
The Ship has sailed and enoughs enough.

Ditto!

This says it all from Friedman: If they want out of this situation, they’ve got to do much better job of convincing other teams they’re worth the investment.

Looking at you especially Phil.

 

[Mess]

Because he's saying bad things about the Leafs that are true.

Agreed.

You don't need a Harvard degree in sports management to look objectively at the Leafs and declare this a complete mess top to bottom.

Friedman is simply stating what appears to be the blatantly obvious from even a casual viewer at this point.

Not sure what is gained by trying to discredit Friedman when 100 other reporters are saying the same thing only in different words at this point.

Leafs are in desperate need of a complete overhaul and even Ownership at this point has concluded the same thing that others are reporting as the facts nowadays.

 

[Longshot]

Agreed.

You don't need a Harvard degree in sports management to look objectively at the Leafs and declare this a complete mess top to bottom.

Friedman is simply stating what appears to be the blatantly obvious from even a casual viewer at this point.

Not sure what is gained by trying to discredit Friedman when 100 other reporters are saying the same thing only in different words at this point.

Leafs are in desperate need of a complete overhaul and even Ownership at this point has concluded the same thing that others are reporting as the facts nowadays.

I really don't understand the Friedman hate after this article.

This is what I've been hearing from fans since this latest collapse started:

"I hate this team."
"This team sucks."
"Blow this team up."
"Pathetic."

But reporter/commentator says pretty much the same thing and they're labelled: "negative."

I disagree with Friedman that this year is the worst of the non-playoffs era of the Leafs. Sorry, this year is terrible, but it's not as bad as the year the Leafs were just as bad, but had traded their pick to Boston. That was the season the Leafs lost the first ten games of the season (I think, might have been 8 or 9) and were out of the playoff race before American Thanksgiving and there was absolutely nothing for fans to look forward to.

 

[Mess]

I really don't understand the Friedman hate after this article.

This is what I've been hearing from fans since this latest collapse started:

"I hate this team."
"This team sucks."
"Blow this team up."
"Pathetic."

But reporter/commentator says pretty much the same thing and they're labelled: "negative."

I disagree with Friedman that this year is the worst of the non-playoffs era of the Leafs. Sorry, this year is terrible, but it's not as bad as the year the Leafs were just as bad, but had traded their pick to Boston. That was the season the Leafs lost the first ten games of the season (I think, might have been 8 or 9) and were out of the playoff race before American Thanksgiving and there was absolutely nothing for fans to look forward to.

I think many reporters are now lumping all these latest Burke/Nonis failed rebuild era of past 6-7 years together as the "worst years" in Leafs history with this last one simple the final straw or breaking point.

Leafs have been shattering All-time records and establishing franchise low marks that haven't happened in nearly 100 years of existence.

Some reporters who lived through the Ballard years are calling this worse today then it was back in those very dark times for Leaf Nation fans. Those reporters include the well respected Bob McKenzie that is on record himself based on how toxic it is right now in Toronto.

 

[Longshot]

I think many reporters are now lumping all these latest Burke/Nonis failed rebuild era of past 6-7 years together as the "worst years" in Leafs history with this last one simple the final straw or breaking point.

Leafs have been shattering All-time records and establishing franchise low marks that haven't happened in nearly 100 years of existence.

Some reporters who lived through the Ballard years are calling this worse today then it was back in those very dark times for Leaf Nation fans. Those reporters include the well respected Bob McKenzie that is on record himself based on how toxic it is right now in Toronto.

I would agree this current era is probably worse than the Ballard years.

I just meant I don't think this current year is the worst year of the current era.

 

[ACC1224]

Agreed.

You don't need a Harvard degree in sports management to look objectively at the Leafs and declare this a complete mess top to bottom.

Friedman is simply stating what appears to be the blatantly obvious from even a casual viewer at this point.

Not sure what is gained by trying to discredit Friedman when 100 other reporters are saying the same thing only in different words at this point.

Leafs are in desperate need of a complete overhaul and even Ownership at this point has concluded the same thing that others are reporting as the facts nowadays.

I think the issue some take is certain Media types seem to take pleasure in the Leafs mess, not really the content of the message but how it's delivered.

(In general, this may or may not refer to Freidman who I think is pretty good.)

 

[Mess]

I would agree this current era is probably worse than the Ballard years.

I just meant I don't think this current year is the worst year of the current era.

They will likely finish with the lowest point total 7 years into the rebuild. They need to go 7-7-0 simply to tie the year you mentioned as the worse one to date.

The saving grace of this year as you mentioned is that the GM wasn't foolish enough to trade away top 1st round picks to finish in the bottom 5 overall. Its certainly a worse situation in that respect to be this bad and have no draft picks to reward Leaf fans for their suffering through these team struggles on the ice.

But this years team results have been the worst on performance.

For me as a diehard long time Leaf fan is that it appears Ownership has finally admitted this retooling is a compete failure and are willing to accept a complete overhaul of the roster and supporting a patient draft rebuild.

 

[Longshot]

I think the issue some take is certain Media types seem to take pleasure in the Leafs mess, not really the content of the message but how it's delivered.

(In general, this may or may not refer to Freidman who I think is pretty good.)

I'm 40 years old and have been reading and following the Toronto media my entire life.

I have never sensed this at all and, if anything, it's I get more indifference from people covering the team. I don't mean indifference, as in they don't care or can't be bothered. I mean in terms of what the team is doing. They still cover the team, talk about what's going on and offer their thoughts. But they aren't emotionally invested one way or another. For them - it is what it is.

Reporters are generally far more neutral than they're given credit for. This is work for them. Whether the Leafs win or lose, are good or suck, they still have to write their stories and cover the team.

For the most part, covering a sports team is a whole lot of monotony for the writers/reporters. Most fans that love their team and cheer for the players don't understand this at all. They would love to be around the team every day, in the locker room, talking to the coach, etc. But, for those who really do it day in and day out, it's work - plain and simple. And it can be boring work. The players don't say much. Game stories are game stories.

It's hard for people to remember, because it's been a decade since the Leafs were even remotely competitive, but it wouldn't be like this if the team was winning and competitive. The stories in the media would be about wins, smart picks ups by the GM, coaching successes, where the team ranks with the other top teams, etc.

The team being lousy, and this being one of the lousiest seasons, has become the story. That's really all there is. And I think that's where the "negative" backlash is coming from.

 

[Longshot]

They will likely finish with the lowest point total 7 years into the rebuild. They need to go 7-7-0 simply to tie the year you mentioned as the worse one to date.

The saving grace of this year as you mentioned is that the GM wasn't foolish enough to trade away top 1st round picks to finish in the bottom 5 overall. Its certainly a worse situation in that respect to be this bad and have no draft picks to reward Leaf fans for their suffering through these team struggles on the ice.

But this years team results have been the worst on performance.

For me as a diehard long time Leaf fan is that it appears Ownership has finally admitted this retooling is a compete failure and are willing to accept a complete overhaul of the roster and supporting a patient draft rebuild.

I hear what you're saying and agree.

But if you think back to the year I'm referring to, they were out of it right out of the gate. It was a season when they never contended and didn't have a pick at the end of it (although I think Burke picked up a couple late first round picks at the deadline).

This year they actually overachieved for awhile and looked like a fringe playoff team, before this bizarre collapse.

That year: terrible team, start to finish. No pick at the end.

This year: okay team early in the year, terrible from that point on, nice pick at the end. Plus, as you mention, it appears as if management has finally realized their constant parade of quick fixes and re-tools are failures and the organization needs to be built properly.

 

[ACC1224]

I'm 40 years old and have been reading and following the Toronto media my entire life.

I have never sensed this at all and, if anything, it's I get more indifference from people covering the team. I don't mean indifference, as in they don't care or can't be bothered. I mean in terms of what the team is doing. They still cover the team, talk about what's going on and offer their thoughts. But they aren't emotionally invested one way or another. For them - it is what it is.

Reporters are generally far more neutral than they're given credit for. This is work for them. Whether the Leafs win or lose, are good or suck, they still have to write their stories and cover the team.

For the most part, covering a sports team is a whole lot of monotony for the writers/reporters. Most fans that love their team and cheer for the players don't understand this at all. They would love to be around the team every day, in the locker room, talking to the coach, etc. But, for those who really do it day in and day out, it's work - plain and simple. And it can be boring work. The players don't say much. Game stories are game stories.

It's hard for people to remember, because it's been a decade since the Leafs were even remotely competitive, but it wouldn't be like this if the team was winning and competitive. The stories in the media would be about wins, smart picks ups by the GM, coaching successes, where the team ranks with the other top teams, etc.

The team being lousy, and this being one of the lousiest seasons, has become the story. That's really all there is. And I think that's where the "negative" backlash is coming from.

You can listen to the HNIC crew or any of the Sportsnet/TSN Panels and not see how they are enjoying this?

I guess it could just be me.

 

[Stats01]

Friedman has a very good point. Even if a player on this team wanted out, they're play isn't doing them any favours. You have to play good if you want another team to be interested. That's why the Wings weren't willing to give up hardly anything at all for Dion. It's fine and dandy to tank, but these guys look atrocious out there. Who in their right mind right now would take on 7 more years of Kessel at 8 million a year watching him the past 2-3 months. Or Bozak for that matter. We could probably get rid of these guys for basically nothing but to expect a ton back is delusional right now. We're not getting a 1st rounder and a elite prospect for Kessel unless he and others start to really pick it up.

 

[Trapper]

Friedman has a very good point. Even if a player on this team wanted out, they're play isn't doing them any favours. You have to play good if you want another team to be interested. That's why the Wings weren't willing to give up hardly anything at all for Dion. It's fine and dandy to tank, but these guys look atrocious out there. Who in their right mind right now would take on 7 more years of Kessel at 8 million a year watching him the past 2-3 months. Or Bozak for that matter. We could probably get rid of these guys for basically nothing but to expect a ton back is delusional right now. We're not getting a 1st rounder and a elite prospect for Kessel unless he and others start to really pick it up.

Maybe they don't want out. Maybe they have it so good with very little expectations that simply being the no. 1 anything by default is a great gig. If they know the only way to be dealt is for a good offer, make sure there are no solid offers. 82 games where nobody really requires you to change the game your comfortable with and springs/summers off. Skate fast, score a goal, hit the hot tub and buffet.

 

[Longshot]

You can listen to the HNIC crew or any of the Sportsnet/TSN Panels and not see how they are enjoying this?

I don't see that at all. If anything, I see a crew that is beaten down by all of this. If anything, they're sick of it being so bad.

They've been writing and saying the same thing for more than a decade and are probably worn out by it. The same story gets really old and stale after awhile.

But, I'm in the media business myself, and have a little more insight into how it works, what goes into it, etc.

 

[Clark4Ever]

This era has nothing on the Ballard era. Not even close. It only feels that way because of social media.

 

[Longshot]

This era has nothing on the Ballard era. Not even close. It only feels that way because of social media.

It's really a matter of perspective.

It's a great debate, especially for those of us that have clear memories of the Ballard era.

I would say the past decade has been worse.

Why?

Well, during the Ballard days everybody knew the team was going to suck and we knew exactly why. The owner was a moron/idiot, he didn't hire good people, the team was just stagnating and waiting for him to leave the scene. They were bad and a lot of times were a joke, but there was always a faint hope that one day he would be gone and things would turn around.

And now? Where is the hope? The team sucks and we really don't know why. There are good players on the roster. The team spends to the cap. The building is sold out. Right now, it all just feels hopeless.

 

[Reddaye]

And now? Where is the hope? The team sucks and we really don't know why. There are good players on the roster. The team spends to the cap. The building is sold out. Right now, it all just feels hopeless.

I think it's pretty clear what's wrong here. Throughout all the recent collapses and the turmoil these things have led to; there's always been a single constant: the core group of players, and lack of the right players in certain key positions (#1C and #1D respectively). The player personnel on this team simply can't get it done.

I recall very strongly during Ron Wilson's tenure the complaints that the team would come out in the first period lazily and unprepared. Ron Wilson was blamed, and ultimately Ron Wilson was removed. This same issue plagued Carlyle, and so Carlyle was removed. Everything has gone wrong under Horachek.

Randy Carlyle, or Peter Horachek, or Mike Babcock, or Scott Bowman can tell these players to play defense, work hard along the boards, win puck battles, etc, etc all day and night. The problem is that not a single one of those coaches can actually go out and play defense for them, or win puck battles for them, or work hard along the boards for them.

The onus is on the makeup of this team on the ice. These guys have shown year after year with a rotating cast of role players that the end result will always be the same. There is a variety of reasons for it, but the overall answer is clear: the players this team is built around aren't getting it done.

I don't see it as being a real mystery. There's nothing left anyone can blame it on but the players themselves, and it's been the same core group every year with the same results.

 

[Longshot]

I don't see it as being a real mystery. There's nothing left anyone can blame it on but the players themselves, and it's been the same core group every year with the same results.

All true. My comments weren't meant as an in-depth examination of what is happening with the team/roster.

It was more along the lines of an abstract feeling about how two different eras played out.

During the Ballard years the Leafs sucked and everybody knew why.

During this era, the team is awful and there is just this sense of hopelessness. It's not like they haven't tried things. They hired a high profile, winning GM, who spent a couple of years assembling a core of players that were mostly high picks (not by the Leafs, but their original teams). They have traded. They have drafted. They have signed free agents. And nothing seems to work.