Salary Cap: Free Agency Part VI | Pens updates, roster ideas, proposals here | Cap space: $7.3M

[MrBurghundy]

Those of you saying how pissed you'll be if Rutherford doesn't acquire top 6 help, please explain how he's supposed to fix everything day 2 into FA after only being on the job for like, 4 weeks now.

Everybody *****ed and moaned about our bottom 6 and JR upgraded that significantly.

All of the top 6 candidates that were out there in UFA have signed with other teams for more than we could afford and frankly, weren't that appealing as players anyway. Sure they were better then what we currently have but not at the expense of signing them to a stupid contract.

He can't trade for a top 6 winger of they're not made available to us.

How unrealistic have our expectations gotten? This isn't NHL 14. Give the guy some time. He can't make these guys appear out of thin air.

The salary cap goes up significantly next season, we have a lot of salary coming off, that's when we'll probably look for top 6 help.

Were so up against the cap right now, what do people expect.

People expected him to not sign a $4M defenseman he didn't need. Because he did, now people expect him to trade one for top 6 help which will negate that cap issue. You know, to finally fix our real problem that we've had since Crosby and Malkin came into the league, and what JR claimed he would do when he got hired. Not be another Ray Shero.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Shero had 10 years to get Malkin and Sid top 6 help and failed miserably. Now we're only giving JR a couple of weeks to pull off a miracle?????

At least give him a season or 2 before you jump in front of that semi. Calm down people.

Exactly.

This was a horrible crop of FA's as well. The only way we can get legit top 6 help without overspending on salary is via a trade, which i do think will happen at some point. As they sit now, they still have at least 1 hole beside Malkin.

 

[Xavier Laflamme*]

Yeah, I think people need to be patient. It's a process. I do think over time Rutherford will cater to Sid and Geno much more. Look at how much he catered to Eric Staal for crying out loud. He brought in two of his three brothers. One of which (Jared) who can't even play.

Problem JR had was this team needed a big makeover. This team was too perimeter oriented and needed more guys like Hornqvist, Spaling and possibly Downie that will go to the tough areas and can score around the net. The bottom 6 needed a total makeover. There's still time to get Sid or Geno a winger down the road. Can't fix everything at once.

BUT I WANT A WINGER NOWWWW!!!!!!


the expectations and entitlement of some fans is mind boggling.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Shero had 10 years to get Malkin and Sid top 6 help and failed miserably. Now we're only giving JR a couple of weeks to pull off a miracle?????

At least give him a season or 2 before you jump in front of that semi. Calm down people.

Agreed. The summer's not over yet, and while the chances are slim, we could see another trade.

I don't think people understand just how badly Shero failed this team, Sid, and Geno. Shero left an absolute disaster of a roster, with several bad contracts. I'm actually impressed by what JR's been able to do thus far.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Shero had 10 years to get Malkin and Sid top 6 help and failed miserably. Now we're only giving JR a couple of weeks to pull off a miracle?????

At least give him a season or 2 before you jump in front of that semi. Calm down people.

Yeah, just waste 2 more years of the 2 generational talents prime. Good idea.

 

[Xavier Laflamme*]

People expected him to not sign a $4M defenseman he didn't need. Because he did, now people expect him to trade one for top 6 help which will negate that cap issue. You know, to finally fix our real problem that we've had since Crosby and Malkin came into the league, and what JR claimed he would do when he got hired. Not be another Ray Shero.

Did you see what UFA's were out there??? Who was so appealing that you would have given them a contract over possibly somebody better in the near future? I'm not for just signing a top 6 guy just to sign one if they're not a good for or at the right contract.

 

[Captain Hook]

The chances Scuderi thrives in Johnston's system are pretty slim.

I know.

I don't know what they can do with Scuds. I think he could probably play on a team that really slows the game down but that is not Johnston's style. The Pens have to give Scuderi a chance to bounce back if no one will take him in trade but he may look just as bad or even worse this year than he did last year... if that's even possible.

 

[drpepper]

Those of you saying how pissed you'll be if Rutherford doesn't acquire top 6 help, please explain how he's supposed to fix everything day 2 into FA after only being on the job for like, 4 weeks now.

Everybody *****ed and moaned about our bottom 6 and JR upgraded that significantly.

All of the top 6 candidates that were out there in UFA have signed with other teams for more than we could afford and frankly, weren't that appealing as players anyway. Sure they were better then what we currently have but not at the expense of signing them to a stupid contract.

He can't trade for a top 6 winger of they're not made available to us.

How unrealistic have our expectations gotten? This isn't NHL 14. Give the guy some time. He can't make these guys appear out of thin air.

The salary cap goes up significantly next season, we have a lot of salary coming off, that's when we'll probably look for top 6 help.

Were so up against the cap right now, what do people expect.

The '09 cup was won by basically three things:

1. Malkin and Crosby having two of the best post-seasons in years
2. Having a third line that was equivalent to a second line and could play shutdown defense
3. Luck

The lack of success since 2009 should show how hard it is to get all three things to happen especially if you are expecting both Malkin and Crosby to produce the best post-seasons in 5-10 years with essentially third line players. It was a miracle the first time it happened and expecting it to happen again is stupid.

Rutherford's current moves shored up a defense and goaltending that didn't need it. And while it helped the bottom 6 compared to last year, it is still subpar to the 2009 third line. In addition, the lack of good defensive players means that Crosby's line may still have to be a shutdown line.

Additionally, all of Rutherford's signings are essentially one year rentals. It's good because there are no overpaid, long contracts, but next year is essentially a reset. So while top 6 help next year is a nice goal, goaltending (Fleury, Greiss), the bottom 6 (players not named Spaling and Sutter) and the defense (Ehrhoff, Martin) will lose too many players and will again need significant money and attention next year.

 

[Uncle Machete]

If anything, JR is setting us up for major change next season.

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Patric Hornqvist ($4.250m)
Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / Beau Bennett ($0.900m)
Nick Spaling ($1.800m) / Brandon Sutter ($3.500m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Olli Maatta ($0.894m) / Kris Letang ($7.250m)
Rob Scuderi ($3.375m) / Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m)
Simon Despres ($1.000m) / Philip Samuelsson ($0.800m)
Derrick Pouliot ($0.863m) /
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $75,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $51,032,500; BONUSES: $425,000
CAP SPACE (15-man roster): $23,967,500

Bennett will get a raise, but still, that's roughly $23m to fill out the roster. And we have to remember that somebody is getting traded soon, freeing up even more cap space. Hopefully Despres can prove himself to be a proper top 4 D alongside Letang and Maatta, so we only need one more top 4 D.

Now, if we only had a long term solution in goal...

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Yeah, just waste 2 more years of the 2 generational talents prime. Good idea.

I mean, I want wingers for Sid and Geno as bad as anyone, but this summer has been pretty sparse in terms of FA options, and most of the big names were destined to go elsewhere. Vanek wanted Minny from the start, Hemsky followed Spezza. Gaborik re-upped in LA. While it would have been nice to have Kulemin for depth, he was a package deal with Grabs. I don't want any part of Iginla with the term he wanted.

Trades are gonna do it for this team, and there's only so much JR can accomplish in the span of a three week period. I think the Neal for Hornqvist/Spaling trade is going to turn out a lot better than people think, as well.

I'm still praying for some kind of Martin/Sutter++ for a stud winger deal, but I don't know if it'll happen. We'll just have to wait and see. As for the Ehrhoff signing, anything that A. makes Martin expendable and allows us to get something for him before he's gone for nothing is good, and B. makes Scuderi expendable, or at worst gives him less responsibility is also good.

 

[Xavier Laflamme*]

Yeah, just waste 2 more years of the 2 generational talents prime. Good idea.

Sweet..so you're all for over reaching on one of these mediocre wingers in FA or trading for some guy you don't even know is available or not.

Makes sense.

 

[IcedCapp]

Did you see what UFA's were out there??? Who was so appealing that you would have given them a contract over possibly somebody better in the near future? I'm not for just signing a top 6 guy just to sign one if they're not a good for or at the right contract.

The UFAs are never going to get better. Never. The cap is going up. Every good UFA will be re-signed before he reaches UFA.

The cap is going to continue to go up.

There will be no more cap-strapped teams.

You call fans entitled and paint them as children because not everyone wants to buy into this being a great off-season simply because they cheaply upgraded the bottom-6 for one season.

But it's been 8+ years. Ownership said as they fired Shero, "it's time to make a commitment to building around Sid and Geno."

That commitment came with: trading their best top-6 winger, signing a bunch of bottom-6 guys to 1-year deals, and telling us how Dupuis, Spaling, and Steve Downie are ready for top-6 duty.

That is the first page of the Ray Shero Playbook.

Management fired Ray Shero and told us, "it's time the kids played."

They made it so that the kids could play by signing another veteran dman. There is now room for one kid.

That is the second page of the Ray Shero Playbook.

It's not entitlement. It's wanting change. Jim Rutherford came in and said all the right things.

And then he did everything Ray Shero would do, (although Shero would never have traded their best top-6 winger, so there's that) but he did it on 1-year deals.

Sid and Geno aren't getting younger. The window isn't getting bigger. At some point you are going to have to make a real, honest effort at building around Sid and Geno.

The Penguins have not even attempted to do so this year.

Filling up their cap space with Downie, Comeau, Spaling, Goc, etc... doesn't impress me much, when it's now, "we don't have the cap space to add top-6 help."

It's better to add top-6 help now on long-term deals and worry about the bottom-6 later.

As Rutherford showed, you can fix the bottom-6 in a year, if you're really smart about it.

As we've seen over the past decade, the top-6 is considerably harder. Just saying you want to make it better isn't good enough. It takes a true philosophical commitment.

 

[pistolpete11]

Spaling can play centre. If they can get him signed to a reasonable contract, it might give them a bit of leverage to lower the price on Sutter.

The problem with moving Sutter for a top 6 winger is that the remaining cap space is going to disappear very quickly. That $7.3M is without Sutter, Spaling, and Despres being signed - and those three guys will take up the bulk of that.

I don’t know enough about Spaling to be completely comfortable with him as the 3C either, but I’m sure Rutherford is using Goc and Spaling as leverage regardless of whether he thinks they are 3C’s or not.

Scuderi should be moved for so many reasons. Everybody knows what they are so we don’t need to go over them. That frees up enough cap space to get a true top 6 winger by trading Sutter. I can’t see Spaling getting much more than $2M and Despres much more than $1.5M. Sign another bottom 6 guy and a 7th defenseman for under a $1M each and they would be able to take on someone with a cap hit of around $5-5.5M. Depending on who it is, I might be willing to move Sutter+ for that. It all depends on who and what else the Pens would have to add.

 

[Xavier Laflamme*]

The UFAs are never going to get better. Never. The cap is going up. Every good UFA will be re-signed before he reaches UFA.

The cap is going to continue to go up.

There will be no more cap-strapped teams.

You call fans entitled and paint them as children because not everyone wants to buy into this being a great off-season simply because they cheaply upgraded the bottom-6 for one season.

But it's been 8+ years. Ownership said as they fired Shero, "it's time to make a commitment to building around Sid and Geno."

That commitment came with: trading their best top-6 winger, signing a bunch of bottom-6 guys to 1-year deals, and telling us how Dupuis, Spaling, and Steve Downie are ready for top-6 duty.

That is the first page of the Ray Shero Playbook.

Management fired Ray Shero and told us, "it's time the kids played."

They made it so that the kids could play by signing another veteran dman. There is now room for one kid.

That is the second page of the Ray Shero Playbook.

It's not entitlement. It's wanting change. Jim Rutherford came in and said all the right things.

And then he did everything Ray Shero would do, (although Shero would never have traded their best top-6 winger, so there's that) but he did it on 1-year deals.

Sid and Geno aren't getting younger. The window isn't getting bigger. At some point you are going to have to make a real, honest effort at building around Sid and Geno.

The Penguins have not even attempted to do so this year.

Filling up their cap space with Downie, Comeau, Spaling, Goc, etc... doesn't impress me much, when it's now, "we don't have the cap space to add top-6 help."

It's better to add top-6 help now on long-term deals and worry about the bottom-6 later.

As Rutherford showed, you can fix the bottom-6 in a year, if you're really smart about it.

As we've seen over the past decade, the top-6 is considerably harder. Just saying you want to make it better isn't good enough. It takes a true philosophical commitment.

So you're giving Rutherford 6 weeks on the job and you're already crucifying him. Who are the entitled ones?

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

To be fair, I think the cap space we added to the bottom six was necessary, and none of the contracts are bad.

The real contracts that are ****ing this team over are Scuds and Dupuis, both left over from the idiot before.

 

[MeinerEiner]

If anything, JR is setting us up for major change next season.

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Patric Hornqvist ($4.250m)
Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / Beau Bennett ($0.900m)
Nick Spaling ($1.800m) / Brandon Sutter ($3.500m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Olli Maatta ($0.894m) / Kris Letang ($7.250m)
Rob Scuderi ($3.375m) / Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m)
Simon Despres ($1.000m) / Philip Samuelsson ($0.800m)
Derrick Pouliot ($0.863m) /
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $75,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $51,032,500; BONUSES: $425,000
CAP SPACE (15-man roster): $23,967,500

Bennett will get a raise, but still, that's roughly $23m to fill out the roster. And we have to remember that somebody is getting traded soon, freeing up even more cap space. Hopefully Despres can prove himself to be a proper top 4 D alongside Letang and Maatta, so we only need one more top 4 D.

Now, if we only had a long term solution in goal...

Pouliot should be ready for top 4 minutes next year. This will the Pens give a lot of opportunities. Letang, Despres, Maatta, Pouliot will make about 11 mio combined! Finally the Pens start to benefit from their youth.

 

[IcedCapp]

So you're giving Rutherford 6 weeks on the job and you're already crucifying him. Who are the entitled ones?

You've done a good job of ignoring everything I've said and giving me a slogan.

I've given you reasons. There's nothing entitled about expecting change that was promised. There was no change, it was identical to what the previous regime would have done.

By the way, the Penguins have no cap space. So giving him 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, ... up to 53 weeks won't change anything, because there is no longer room to make changes.

So you can skip ahead to "you have to give him more than a year."

Side note: I keep seeing people say, "just see how KCD does and then make a deal at the deadline!"

Part 3 of "Management Said": "we're tired of trading youth for rentals. That's no way to build a team."

So now we're going to rip page 3 out of the Ray Shero Playbook?

 

[Shady Machine]

Exactly.

This was a horrible crop of FA's as well. The only way we can get legit top 6 help without overspending on salary is via a trade, which i do think will happen at some point. As they sit now, they still have at least 1 hole beside Malkin.

It's always a horrible crop of FAs

 

[drpepper]

It's always a horrible crop of FAs

In terms of top 6 talent, this was one of the better groups. Next year's is bad.

 

[Shady Machine]

Did you see what UFA's were out there??? Who was so appealing that you would have given them a contract over possibly somebody better in the near future? I'm not for just signing a top 6 guy just to sign one if they're not a good for or at the right contract.

Right but now people expect him to trade a veteran dman for a winger. I think that's totally reasonable. We talked about letting the kids play, but unless Scuds or Martin are moving out, Despres is a press box baby again when Maatta is healthy.

Martin-Letang
Maatta-Ehrhoff
Scuderi-Bortuzzo
Despres-Sammy

As it looks right now (and I'm a big fan of what JR has done thus far), we are doing the same exact thing as Shero. Loading up on veteran D and letting the kids rot away. Yeah we need to be patient, but I think the start of training camp is plenty long to wait. Go find a trade now.

 

[IcedCapp]

To be fair, I think the cap space we added to the bottom six was necessary, and none of the contracts are bad.

The real contracts that are ****ing this team over are Scuds and Dupuis, both left over from the idiot before.

No doubt the bottom-6 needed help, but they used up all of their cap space on the bottom-6 and they acquired exactly 0 long term bottom-6 solutions. So next year, when the Pens will once again look to fill their top-6, they'll also have to fill their entire bottom-6 all over again.

And next year, they'll likely have one less asset (Paul Martin) to use as a trade chip.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Patric Hornqvist ($4.250m)
Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / Beau Bennett ($0.900m)
Nick Spaling ($1.500m) / Brandon Sutter ($3.500m) / Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m)
Blake Comeau ($0.700m) / Marcel Goc ($1.200m) / Steve Downie ($1.000m)
Craig Adams ($0.700m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kris Letang ($7.250m) / Simon Despres ($0.851m)
Christian Ehrhoff ($4.000m) / Olli Maatta ($0.894m)
Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m) / Rob Scuderi ($3.375m)
Brian Dumoulin ($0.832m) /
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Thomas Greiss ($1.000m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,601,333; BONUSES: $68,333
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,398,667

Move Martin + Pouliot + 1st for JVR

Winger for Sid. Cap room. Can still dump Scuds and Dupuis if needed. Bennett gets his shot to prove himself--for better or worse--without having to be leaned on for scoring. Despres and Maatta get big minutes.

It all hinges on whether or not JR is willing to move Martin, and if he can find a team willing to trade a winger for him. I think he can, since the market for d-men is sky high right now. It's all on JR's willingness to do so. We are still saddled with Scuds and Dupuis, but they're insulated, and can be dumped later if need be.

 

[MeinerEiner]

No doubt the bottom-6 needed help, but they used up all of their cap space on the bottom-6 and they acquired exactly 0 long term bottom-6 solutions. So next year, when the Pens will once again look to fill their top-6, they'll also have to fill their entire bottom-6 all over again.

And next year, they'll likely have one less asset (Paul Martin) to use as a trade chip.

Well, Sutter and Spalling should get something like 3 years so they have 2 guys for the bottom 6 long term. If you count Dupuis as a 3rd liner it will be 3. I´m fine guys like Downie, Goc etc. battling for a new contract. I don´t want another signing like the Adams´ one. If they prove they can be a good role-player for the Pens they can sign them for 2 years, but that should be the max.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Right but now people expect him to trade a veteran dman for a winger. I think that's totally reasonable. We talked about letting the kids play, but unless Scuds or Martin are moving out, Despres is a press box baby again when Maatta is healthy.

Martin-Letang
Maatta-Ehrhoff
Scuderi-Bortuzzo
Despres-Sammy

As it looks right now (and I'm a big fan of what JR has done thus far), we are doing the same exact thing as Shero. Loading up on veteran D and letting the kids rot away. Yeah we need to be patient, but I think the start of training camp is plenty long to wait. Go find a trade now.

Dumo is pretty much NHL ready now as well. He doesn't get much love around here because his debut wasn't overly impressive, but he is a big body that has a nice all around game.

Harry I felt was ready to play last season, mentally, but needed to get stronger. I think he could handle himself in the NHL just fine now.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

No doubt the bottom-6 needed help, but they used up all of their cap space on the bottom-6 and they acquired exactly 0 long term bottom-6 solutions. So next year, when the Pens will once again look to fill their top-6, they'll also have to fill their entire bottom-6 all over again.

And next year, they'll likely have one less asset (Paul Martin) to use as a trade chip.

I'm so incredibly in favor of moving Martin, you're preaching to the choir.

As for the bottom six, I think once Sutter and Spaling signs on, it'll be a lot less up in the air. Ideally, we get another winger for Sid and another for Geno, and Bennett gets to slot in alongside Sutter. I like Beau as a third liner more than a scoring line guy at the moment, and I'd rather not "settle" for Bennett because he's our only young solution. I think we can do much, much better for Sid and Geno. Besides, that's not a bad third line at all.

Again, it's all up to JR's willingness and ability to land a guy like JVR/ROR/Kane for Martin++. That's the deal that makes or breaks this roster. I'd much rather not lose Martin's services, and dump Scuderi and Dupuis, but Martin's got the value to acquire a solution for the top six, and he's gone after this season--regardless of whether or not he wants to re-sign. I don't want him back at the price he'll ask, and for the term he'll demand. No thanks. We need JR to be the anti-Shero and sever ties with Martin now, while he has value, and it's clear he won't/shouldn't be back after his current deal anyway. Shero would hold out and try to re-sign him for whatever he wanted. JR needs to do the opposite.