Forsbergs foot, diving incidents.

[Antraxh]

Forsberg said himself that his issues with his foot started in the 2003 season. The bones in his foot did not keep its shape and the foot became lose. It shrunk a size during a game. You can see in the highlights from his later years and those who followed him that his balance was not as it were in his early career. Was the foot issue the primary cause for some people to start accusing him for diving?

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[Plural]

No, it was more about the diving.

 

[DisgruntledGoat*]

He was diving long before 2003.

 

[jkrx]

Another player with an unfair reputation for diving. Forsberg played with tremendous pain and most of the so called dives were an result of the same place being "tapped" at again and again.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

His reputation as a diver came from the late 90s, and he was the primary motivation behind the name "Divealanche," a (hilarious) Avs bashing site created by Wings fans during their rivalry.

I've never seen a player so strong on his skates for most of the game go down so easily when he knew the ref (singular) was looking

 

[Hobnobs]

His reputation as a diver came from the late 90s, and he was the primary motivation behind the name "Divealanche," a (hilarious) Avs bashing site created by Wings fans during their rivalry.

I've never seen a player so strong on his skates for most of the game go down so easily when he knew the ref (singular) was looking

imho, Crosby was/is much much worse.

 

[quoipourquoi]

imho, Crosby was/is much much worse.

I don't think it's an excuse to embellish infractions just because some player five years into the future is going to do it as much or more often.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

imho, Crosby was/is much much worse.

Maybe I'm just older now, so I'm more used to it. Or maybe Crosby stands out less to me because diving is a much more common part of the game now in general. But Forsberg really stuck out to me more than anyone as a diver

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I don't think it's an excuse to embellish infractions just because some player five years into the future is going to do it as much or more often.

Holy crap! Did you say something uncomplementary about Forsberg?

 

[quoipourquoi]

Holy crap! Did you say something uncomplementary about Forsberg?

Mark it in your calendar. Now catch me saying something bad about Messier. It will never happen.

 

[Hobnobs]

Maybe I'm just older now, so I'm more used to it. Or maybe Crosby stands out less to me because diving is a much more common part of the game now in general. But Forsberg really stuck out to me more than anyone as a diver

Well, I grew up hating Forsberg and yet i dont think he was that bad. Never thought he dove, more of an emballisher in that case.

 

[sr edler]

I've never seen a player so strong on his skates for most of the game go down so easily when he knew the ref (singular) was looking

Eric Staal?

I think Forsberg's reputation as a diver is a bit exaggerrated. Yes, he embellished a bit sometimes but so did a lot of players. But he took a lot more abuse than the average player.

 

[sr edler]

Now catch me saying something bad about Messier. It will never happen.

No worries. I can say it for you.

Watch Messier go down like he's shot at 0:17. Replayed at 1:02.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Eric Staal?

I think Forsberg's reputation as a diver is a bit exaggerrated. Yes, he embellished a bit sometimes but so did a lot of players. But he took a lot more abuse than the average player.

Yeah, I'd rank Eric Staal over Crosby as a diver in the current game. I have to think Peter Laviolette encourages embellishment because all of his teams did it.

Don't think Staal was as strong on his skates as Forsberg though - Forsberg was one of the strongest ever on his skates... when he wanted to be.

 

[Sadekuuro]

It shrunk a size during a game.

Wait, what?

His reputation as a diver came from the late 90s, and he was the primary motivation behind the name "Divealanche," a (hilarious) Avs bashing site created by Wings fans during their rivalry.

If memory serves, that site was actually made by Avs-hating Denver locals. I don't think they were Wings fans specifically.

They did have a great t-shirt with a diving player taking the place of the A in the old Avs logo I kind of wish I'd bought one even though the bottom fell out of the rivalry.

 

[Cruor]

Wait, what?

From a TSN blog piece back in 2007:

Blog: What's wrong with Peter Forsberg?

TSN.ca Talent Blog
11/6/2007 11:17:53 AM

By now, we all know Peter Forsberg has problems with his feet, but what precisely are these problems?

Well, Forsberg has some congenital issues. He wasn't born with a club foot, but does have some characteristics associated with that, specifically the ligaments in his feet are too lax and loose.
The surgical procedures he has had on his feet were to 'tighten' up the ligaments.

The basic problem, in spite of these surgeries, is that when Forsberg's foot is in the skate boot, his foot tends to roll over within the boot. It is as if he is wearing skates a couple of sizes too big for him, even though they are fitted correctly.
No matter how tight his skates are around the foot, his heel slips and the foot shifts and rolls over.

Now stability is the elusive quality. He simply can't push off well enough to skate if the stability isn't there.

Forsberg had been encouraged the problem was behind him, but it started to crop up again when he was skating on the weekend. The condition worsened today, so much so that he realized he could not continue.
Forsberg's remarks indicate he is extremely despondent about this latest setback, but he isn't at the point quite yet where he'll stop trying to find a solution.

I bet the guy has seen every foot specialist there is to see in the world, at one point during one of his Philly seasons he used up 45 different pair of skates. It's a shame he couldn't comeback and quit on his own terms.

 

[Sadekuuro]

I'm aware of all that, but I've never heard anything about his foot shrinking an entire size during a game.

 

[Michael Farkas]

imho, Crosby was/is much much worse.

Crosby also gets a lot of flack because he leans on you to make space for himself...he puts a lot of weight on his edges and a lot of weight on the defender and when one gives, he goes down pretty easily...

Not saying he hasn't dressed up a few in his time...but some people have some wonky ideas about skating physics in the context of the game, combine it with their biases and create an illusion...

Not saying you are, hobnobs, but just saying...

Is Crosby one of the ten most prevalent embellishers in the game? Certainly not.

 

[Hobnobs]

Crosby also gets a lot of flack because he leans on you to make space for himself...he puts a lot of weight on his edges and a lot of weight on the defender and when one gives, he goes down pretty easily...

Not saying he hasn't dressed up a few in his time...but some people have some wonky ideas about skating physics in the context of the game, combine it with their biases and create an illusion...

Not saying you are, hobnobs, but just saying...

Is Crosby one of the ten most prevalent embellishers in the game? Certainly not.

He's not as bad as some other guys in the league Marchand and Burrows being prime examples. But then again, their respective teams are built around diving. Red Wings and Pens are more embellishers.

 

[Pat Paeplow]

Why do people enter into discussions about diving like its a bad quality in a hockey player? Hitting the deck is simply another way a highly talented player takes advantage of an undisciplined or unskilled opponent. Most dives I notice, the penalized player simply isn't fast enough to keep up with the diver. Other times, he is just to lazy or too poorly conditioned to move his feet, attempts to hook or hold instead.

I submit that players like Forsberg or Crosby have to dive because they consistently find themselves matched up against lesser players who immediately look to hook or hold. If they don't hit the deck, they aren't doing everything they can to help their team win which is a far more damning offense imho.

 

[Plural]

Why do people enter into discussions about diving like its a bad quality in a hockey player? Hitting the deck is simply another way a highly talented player takes advantage of an undisciplined or unskilled opponent. Most dives I notice, the penalized player simply isn't fast enough to keep up with the diver. Other times, he is just to lazy or too poorly conditioned to move his feet, attempts to hook or hold instead.

I submit that players like Forsberg or Crosby have to dive because they consistently find themselves matched up against lesser players who immediately look to hook or hold. If they don't hit the deck, they aren't doing everything they can to help their team win which is a far more damning offense imho.

Good points. Forsberg definitely dived a lot, but he probably did it a lot cause it simply was the best play at the moment.

 

[Big Phil]

Way back in the 1990s Forsberg was accused as a diver. He was very strong on his skates. The puck could be on a string at times by the looks of it. Then he'd go down like a truck hit him. I didn't like that, and the fact that Crosby does the same thing to an extent doesn't make it any better for Forsberg.

As far as his contemporaries at the time, and I'll even say European ones, I didn't see a lot of the same thing from most of them. Kovalev? Kozlov? Oh for sure, but they were embarrassments. But I wouldn't have called Jagr or even Bure a diver. Jagr was as strong on his feet as anyone and you rarely saw him embellish. Bure was so driven to score and get the puck that I think him being on the ice would have been a hindrance. I can't say I saw regularly dives from Bure.

So yeah, Forsberg does stand out against those guys, and not in a good way. I also didn't care for Bill Barber doing it either. We laugh about it now because Barber literally was the first one to make an art of it and use it as a tactic, but I'm one of the last people in the world that cries wolf, so I expect others to do the same.

 

[Plural]

Bit off topic, but Phils post made me wonder. European label of soft, did it come from european stars diving? Did Kurri dive, Selanne, Sundin, Jagr, Bure, Moginly etc. Any memories on that?

 

[Cruor]

I submit that players like Forsberg or Crosby have to dive because they consistently find themselves matched up against lesser players who immediately look to hook or hold. If they don't hit the deck, they aren't doing everything they can to help their team win which is a far more damning offense imho.

I think diving is awful but I can actually buy this argument, if they don't get penalized even half the time you have to level the playing field. I know Gretzky said something similar in his autobiography. And this is why I'm not too stressed out with teams like FC Barcelona diving, if they didn't they would get absolutely mauled out there with nothing to show for it.

 

[jkrx]

Bit off topic, but Phils post made me wonder. European label of soft, did it come from european stars diving? Did Kurri dive, Selanne, Sundin, Jagr, Bure, Moginly etc. Any memories on that?

None of them dove and I don't understand that label on europeans. The first real diver were canadian after all.