Post-Game Talk: Forget this game ever happened

ManofSteel55

Registered User
Aug 15, 2013
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The threshold for what constitutes an infraction should be consistent and applied evenly from team to team and player to player but it clearly isn’t because for the NHL parity is paramount.

Would you agree that the overwhelming majority of infractions occur in the defensive side of the ice, usually in an attempt to prevent scoring chances?

If so, then wouldn’t it make sense that a team like the Oilers that are at or near the top in basically every offensive category, who possess the puck as much as they do and create scoring chances at the rate they do, would draw more penalties and not be near the bottom of league for calls drawn.

Would you say it would be reasonable to expect that a team that has the puck often and generates a lot of scoring chances would likely be infracted against more often then the average?
Also because referees do actually just miss calls sometimes.
No penalty for instigating the fight? Or refs saw Kane and automatically assumed both players wanted to fight? No additional powerplay should have been called for the blues.

I don't disagree that oilers are undisciplined at times, but I believe that blues game was one sided. Even the American network agrued the successful challenge on the nuge goal should have counted.
It wasn't an instigator penalty. It was for taking the helmet off. That's a pretty cut and dry penalty.

I'm not saying there weren't issues last night. There absolutely were. But I don't think pointing out the penalty differential is the answer when the penalties we had were pretty obvious, aside from maybe the Hyman one. The goal reviews were b.s. though. I don't like the high stick rule the way it is now. The Kane goal should be okay in my opinion, but it isn't according to the rulebook so there's no arguing that one. But I think the Blues reviewed goal and the Nuge disallowed goal were incredibly similar, both goalies had a slight brush of interference, one was called back, the other wasn't. That wasn't fair, in my opinion.

My biggest issue with last nights games were 1) the reviews, and 2) ice that looked worse than our small town rinks have for community leagues. No team in the NHL should have ice that awful, and there needs to be some tighter standards - or the Blues need to be held to the standard .

The talk here is borderline nuts. The league doesn't have it out for the Oilers. I remember having a discussion with Darryl Sutter and him saying that the Canadian teams love Bettman and that he was the main reason we survived in the dark times.

The rest of this is drivel.
I'm pretty sure most of the teams love Bettman. He does what the NHL Board of Governors tells him to, and the teams make up the board. He's following orders like the rest of us shmucks do daily. He just gets them from the presidents of each NHL team.
 

Oilhawks

Oden's Ride Over Nordland
Nov 24, 2011
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That's right, it is subjective, and every team benefits and gets burned at some point.

The point is, some benefit more than others and others get burned more often. The stats show the patterns. Just ask the Refalanche, they had 5 years in a row of getting the most calls or some shit. Shouldn’t happen in a “parity” league

So you mad at Parros or the reffing. They are two separate things. This was awful by player safety and he should have gotten a bunch of games.

Both are equally a blight on the league, but it’s part of Head Elf Bettman’s directive for league parity parody
 

Drivesaitl

Finding Hyman
Oct 8, 2017
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This team would be measurably worse with Danault instead of Nuge.
At this point I agree. If Only because Danault had dug down further giving more of himself being 200ft strong on pucks for most of his career. So what we see now is more of a spent Danault. Has it for some games and not for others. Nuge has conserved energy more.. haha

The other thing though is with guy like Henrique here he could be the PP bumper that Nuge is. Could play the same role. But Henrique is somewhere in between Nuge and Danault in fight on pucks. Henrique is better than Nuge at those aspects. Will become apparent in time. Even an older Henrique. Simply put Henrique is stronger than Nuge. Danault is lb/lb stronger than both.

Not saying its Nuge's fault either. He was thrown into league playing on a nothing team that most years didn't even have a chance of doing anything. Henrique was thrown onto a SC contender team and made to play as an impact player and 200ft player and strive to be the best he could possibly be.

The Oilers org unconditionally reinforced Hall, Eberle, Nuge with longterm 6M buck contracts while young. That impacted development. Also that they had top line billing and top PP almost by default.
 

Oilhawks

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The talk here is borderline nuts. The league doesn't have it out for the Oilers. I remember having a discussion with Darryl Sutter and him saying that the Canadian teams love Bettman and that he was the main reason we survived in the dark times.

The rest of this is drivel.

The Canadian teams have Stockholm Syndrome then (no surprise). Bettman saved the team, woopedy doo. Look at the extent he’s going to keep the trash franchise Coyotes in Zona. It’s because it looks bad to have teams relocate. Bettman is garbage, and he’s sewered the league by letting degenerate gambling take it over
 

K1984

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Feb 7, 2008
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The point is, some benefit more than others and others get burned more often. The stats show the patterns. Just ask the Refalanche, they had 5 years in a row of getting the most calls or some shit. Shouldn’t happen in a “parity” league



Both are equally a blight on the league, but it’s part of Head Elf Bettman’s directive for league parity parody

This is the tell.

When you see some teams at the top of penalty differential every year no matter what and you see some teams at the bottom of penalty differential every year no matter what, there is more at play than just "oh they are more disciplined" whether that bias is conscious or sub conscious.

Some teams (Avalanche) are simply better at playing the refs - Mackinnon has perfected the art of the dive followed up by incessant whining if he doesn't get his way that the refs bite on. It's bullshit, but is what it is. Twisting the incompetent officials in this league is unfortunately a part of the game and unfortunately the Oilers don't play this game very much or very well and we pay for it. As much as Mackinnon's antics are pathetic and embarrassing, we would have a lot more PP's if McDavid did the same thing.
 

Slats432

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You know the answer to this already. NHL takes gold markets with guaranteed ticket sales for granted because they can. Thus Montreal and Edmonton getting no favors, and those cities also have no other pro competition. NHL doesn't have to do anything but exist for those to be the top market clubs in those cities.

Conversely you look at Canadian teams getting help from NHL and its Vancouver, Winnipeg, Ottawa and Calgary where those teams need any help they can get to keep fans coming. Other than that the NHL favors NHL American markets where the league feels they need to do to more to help those clubs to keep the fans coming.
So what about SJ and ANA being worst in the penalty diff? Either they favour the southern markets or they don't.

The Canadian teams have Stockholm Syndrome then (no surprise). Bettman saved the team, woopedy doo. Look at the extent he’s going to keep the trash franchise Coyotes in Zona. It’s because it looks bad to have teams relocate. Bettman is garbage, and he’s sewered the league by letting degenerate gambling take it over
You mean like every league? Betting is something that is in every sport so all commissioners have done the same thing, but Bettman is wrong to embrace the revenue like other leagues?
 

TopShelfGloveSide

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So what about SJ and ANA being worst in the penalty diff? Either they favour the southern markets or they don't.


You mean like every league? Betting is something that is in every sport so all commissioners have done the same thing, but Bettman is wrong to embrace the revenue like other leagues?
SJ and ANA are terrible teams and get worked all game. No shit they have a bad penalty diff.
 

Drivesaitl

Finding Hyman
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So what about SJ and ANA being worst in the penalty diff? Either they favour the southern markets or they don't.
Yeah, thats an interesting one. But keeping min mind Ducks won their cup already and did have some favorable calls etc to get that. Nor could one ignore the Kesler goalie interference instance on Talbot.

SJ had seen some success on ice as well getting to final.

I think more the case in these markets and in Arizona they simply exist. NHL not really doing anything for them now because nothing in these two markets gains market share. These 3 clubs were NHL mistakes, I think realized, and so the NHL is biding time and NOT wanting to be in the business of relocation, changing teams and certainly not folding any. Its an odd situation that probably isn't changed unitl Bettman himself is deposed. It was his play to go into all the sunshine markets. He doesn't want to admit being wrong on them. They just exist, for that reason as much as any.
 

Oilhawks

Oden's Ride Over Nordland
Nov 24, 2011
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So what about SJ and ANA being worst in the penalty diff? Either they favour the southern markets or they don't.


You mean like every league? Betting is something that is in every sport so all commissioners have done the same thing, but Bettman is wrong to embrace the revenue like other leagues?

Is it being pushed as much as it is in the NHL? It reeks of desperation, which isn’t shocking considering this is a 3rd rate league where it “really” matters (US)
 
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Slats432

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SJ and ANA are terrible teams and get worked all game. No shit they have a bad penalty diff.
But it is a circular argument. Either the league is corrupt and trying to screw the Oilers or teams that get penalties get penalties. You can't have it both ways.

Is it being pushed as much as it is in the NHL? It reeks of desperation, which isn’t shocking considering this is a 3rd rate league where it “really” matters (US)


It's everywhere.
 

TopShelfGloveSide

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But it is a circular argument. Either the league is corrupt and trying to screw the Oilers or teams that get penalties get penalties. You can't have it both ways.
It’s not that black and white though. A team that bad it’s almost impossible to have a good penalty differential even with the reffs on your side. If they were even decent I guarantee they wouldn’t be close to this low.

You don’t think it’s slightly weird the Oilers are down with teams who spend 90% of the game in their own zone?

I’m not saying it’s corruption or buttman but the officials definitely don’t do us any favours.
 
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Oilhawks

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But it is a circular argument. Either the league is corrupt and trying to screw the Oilers or teams that get penalties get penalties. You can't have it both ways.




It's everywhere.

Yes it's everywhere, my point is does it take up every other second of broadcast time? Is it literally every other ad at a commercial break? I don't notice it as much with other sports. The NHL is a league desperate to be relevant in the US
 

CupofOil

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Aug 20, 2009
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The Oilers passed up scoring opportunities for low percentage plays, especially on the power play. Binnington played well but the Oilers made it too easy on him at times. I actually thought Skinner made the tougher saves and the Blues had the higher xG.
This is the Oilers story in the playoff often times. They generally win the possession battle which is why their underlying metrics are elite but they seem to me to shoot less than other teams when the opportunity is there as opposed to Vegas, for example, who usually shoot when they're in a prime scoring area.

How many times have we heard in the past that the opposition goalie played well but the Oilers kind of made it easy on him? The Oilers need to, one, shoot the puck more coming off the cycle, two, create more chaos in front of the goalie and, three, bear down on their chances on loose pucks in the crease. It seems like they lag behind a bit in key moments on these three things. It's been so often the difference between winning and losing in tight playoff games.

Hyman, Perry, Kane when he's on and Foegele at times are really the only guys that battle hard for every inch in tight, some teams like Vegas and Colorado have a bunch of guys that all play this way. Need more guys to get into the fight more consistently, match the battle level of the opposition and be on the right side of the puck when the chips are down.
 

Slats432

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Yes it's everywhere, my point is does it take up every other second of broadcast time? Is it literally every other ad at a commercial break? I don't notice it as much with other sports. The NHL is a league desperate to be relevant in the US
This might be true. The league knows that betting helps generate interest in the US and in areas that they might like to get a stronger following. That is just business. I don't watch the other sports as much but from what I can tell, they don't push it as much as the NHL. But if you think about it, that is why the refs/league aren't compromised because they need the legitimacy or else bettors leave in droves.
 

Drivesaitl

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But it is a circular argument. Either the league is corrupt and trying to screw the Oilers or teams that get penalties get penalties. You can't have it both ways.




It's everywhere.
C'mon. Your username is Slats, reference to Glen Sather. You're an Oilers fan, you saw a league that outlawed the 4 on 4 for awhile because the Oilers were too good at it, and you're taking the position here that there is no agenda ever.

Agreed that sports is rife with corruption everywhere. We're addicts still following it suspecting we should know better. While I say as much as I'm still here for the McDrai I know better that its probably that I'm a lifer.
 
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GOilers88

#DustersWinCups
Dec 24, 2016
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Uhhhh no. Dude is still young. What's with fans giving up on players so easily?

I thought the team played well. Bit of puck luck and some odd calls was the difference. On to the next one.
Remember when Henrique was the worst deadline pickup after 3 games?
 

bellagiobob

Registered User
Jul 27, 2006
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This is the tell.

When you see some teams at the top of penalty differential every year no matter what and you see some teams at the bottom of penalty differential every year no matter what, there is more at play than just "oh they are more disciplined" whether that bias is conscious or sub conscious.

Some teams (Avalanche) are simply better at playing the refs - Mackinnon has perfected the art of the dive followed up by incessant whining if he doesn't get his way that the refs bite on. It's bullshit, but is what it is. Twisting the incompetent officials in this league is unfortunately a part of the game and unfortunately the Oilers don't play this game very much or very well and we pay for it. As much as Mackinnon's antics are pathetic and embarrassing, we would have a lot more PP's if McDavid did the same thing.
Connor got angry at the refs for one brief second years ago and still pays for it today. I don’t believe for a second that he would get more calls if he started whining, it would be the opposite. Watching how many times he is infracted without calls is just disgusting.
 
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Slats432

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C'mon. Your username is Slats, reference to Glen Sather. You're an Oilers fan, you saw a league that outlawed the 4 on 4 for awhile because the Oilers were too good at it, and you're taking the position here that there is no agenda ever.

Agreed that sports is rife with corruption everywhere. We're addicts still following it suspecting we should know better. While I say as much as I'm still here for the McDrai I know better that its probably that I'm a lifer.
Oh, I don't believe that there is zero agenda for the league. Instituting the shootout was to promote an agenda of parity.

The league let guys out of the penalty box after one goal because the Habs of the 50s were scoring too many power play goals. The trapezoid was created because Martin Brodeur was head and shoulders above all the other goalies in playing the puck.

If there is one team that has a clear advantage, they try to take it away to create balance. I concede that for sure.
 

Dieseloil

Registered User
Jul 31, 2016
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True. But sometimes its also reffing being bad and hockey being bounce. On one play Booch got stick on puck to keep puck in zone. Somehow the puck not only skips away from him but right to a Blue, I mean perfectly going to the blue. (otherwise known as luck) On the other the puck is being contested and somehow through the vibration of molecules (sarcasm) magically jumps to Saad who magically jumps off ice just at that time, who is on fortunately on attack short bench, and who is seated at the end of that bench. All Saad has to do there is jump in play there and he has a breakaway. Its just one of the inane things about 3 on 3 is how impacted they are by bench positions.

Takeaway though is on at least two instances the Oilers made plays they arguably should make or were very close to making and somehow both blew up to be the worst possible things. In a game in which we dominated and Blues got every bounce.
100%
 

Slats432

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And I am taking the position exclusively that the referees don't change how they ref based on what team they are reffing. That the league would never tell any ref or any official to specifically disadvantage a team.

You want to say the reffing was bad in a game. I can agree. You want to say the league makes rules to create parity and tries to meet their agenda of parity if possible, I concede.

The refs and league are out to get us is just asinine.
 

bellagiobob

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Jul 27, 2006
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This might be true. The league knows that betting helps generate interest in the US and in areas that they might like to get a stronger following. That is just business. I don't watch the other sports as much but from what I can tell, they don't push it as much as the NHL. But if you think about it, that is why the refs/league aren't compromised because they need the legitimacy or else bettors leave in droves.
Be interesting to see numbers, if that is even possible, regarding new viewers to hockey due to allowed betting. I’m guessing it would be quite low, as there are so many other sports that you can bet on that people are more familiar with. I know that if I was new to the game, and was only interested in it for the betting, and watched last nights game, I would never bet on the sport. Add to it they’ve had to fire a ref who was caught on his mic talking about evening up calls, and it’s just not a trustworthy proposition.
 
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Drivesaitl

Finding Hyman
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Oh, I don't believe that there is zero agenda for the league. Instituting the shootout was to promote an agenda of parity.

The league let guys out of the penalty box after one goal because the Habs of the 50s were scoring too many power play goals. The trapezoid was created because Martin Brodeur was head and shoulders above all the other goalies in playing the puck.

If there is one team that has a clear advantage, they try to take it away to create balance. I concede that for sure.
Appreciate the good answer. Thanks. That was well explained.
 

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