Forbes 2017 values are out

[JD1]

Sens valued at 420M up 18% from last year. Operating profit of 10M which doesn' include revenues received from expansion fees that Vegas paid.

Click to read more...

 

[Punchbowl]

Here's the link for anyone else interested:

The NHL's Most Valuable Teams

Edit: Link directly to the list:

The Business Of Hockey

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Sens valued at 420M up 18% from last year. Operating profit of 10M which doesn' include revenues received from expansion fees that Vegas paid.

Each NHL team (owner) received $16 Million each from the VGN expansion fee.

I wonder if the "operating profit" included the Playoff home dates, or not?

 

[Micklebot]

Each NHL team (owner) received $16 Million each from the VGN expansion fee.

I wonder if the "operating profit" included the Playoff home dates, or not?

Why wouldn't it? seems pretty cut and dry that it should, no?

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Why wouldn't it? seems pretty cut and dry that it should, no?

I just seem to remember that players earn their Salaries during the regular Season, and their paycheques end when the season ends. And also that Play off revenues don't factor into the "Hockey related revenue" formula, because not all teams make the playoffs.
So with the Senators being operated as a separate entity, revenue from Home Playoff games, I thought, were not factored in .......... but I'm not $100% sure of that.

 

[Caeldan]

Remember that the Forbes numbers are largely pulled from thin air since none of the franchises actually reveal financial details outside of court proceedings.

 

[BonkTastic]

Remember that the Forbes numbers are largely pulled from thin air since none of the franchises actually reveal financial details outside of court proceedings.

Bingo.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Kinda sad that 17 teams have less value than an expansion team.

 

[Engineer]

Kinda sad that 17 teams have less value than an expansion team.

The value listed is literally the buy-in value, which was a record expansion fee.

 

[Arkantoss]

So are we still moving to Quebec lol

 

[Upgrayedd]

Sens valued at 420M up 18% from last year. Operating profit of 10M which doesn' include revenues received from expansion fees that Vegas paid.

Nice!

Remember that the Forbes numbers are largely pulled from thin air since none of the franchises actually reveal financial details outside of court proceedings.

Isn't most of their list literally based on asking the companies how profitable they are? Remember reading about this a few years back where one guy lied to them and had his estimated worth at like 3 billion when in reality he was only worth a few million.

 

[tony d]

Nice to see our value's gone up. Be interesting to see what happens if Melnyk finds another owner or co-owner.

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

With our value increasing, any talk of the team not making money or being unable to spend to the cap is hogwash. Evidence >> water-carriers in the media. Pony up, Eugene.

 

[Micklebot]

I just seem to remember that players earn their Salaries during the regular Season, and their paycheques end when the season ends. And also that Play off revenues don't factor into the "Hockey related revenue" formula, because not all teams make the playoffs.
So with the Senators being operated as a separate entity, revenue from Home Playoff games, I thought, were not factored in .......... but I'm not $100% sure of that.

Not that it really matters, but HRR is a construct of the CBA and profit sharing, and would not be suitable to tie into franchise valuations. Further, from what I was able to find, HRR was defined as such - "derived or earned from, relating to or arising directly or indirectly out of the playing of NHL hockey games or NHL-related events in which current NHL Players participate or in which current NHL Players' names and likenesses are used, by each such Club or the League, or attributable directly to the Club or the League from a Club Affiliated Entity or League Affiliated Entity...". This imo implies that playoff gates would be considered as they would be arising directly out of playing Hockey games.

 

[Micklebot]

Nice!



Isn't most of their list literally based on asking the companies how profitable they are? Remember reading about this a few years back where one guy lied to them and had his estimated worth at like 3 billion when in reality he was only worth a few million.

More recently Wilbur Ross was estimated at 2.9 mil by Forbes, and declared on his declaration of net worth statement for his gov't position ~700k. Forbes took him off their billionaire list and claimed the error was because he lied to them about his net worth.

Here's another article about it, talks about Trump doing something similar, and tactics used to inflate net worth. A lot of billionaires probably lie about being billionaires

This doesn't seem to be all that uncommon a thing. Having said that, with companies, there is sometimes more robust publically available info out there; but not always.

 

[JD1]

Remember that the Forbes numbers are largely pulled from thin air since none of the franchises actually reveal financial details outside of court proceedings.

forbes goes into considerable detail on their valuation methodoloy. it's in the article if you care to read it.

 

[JD1]

Each NHL team (owner) received $16 Million each from the VGN expansion fee.

I wonder if the "operating profit" included the Playoff home dates, or not?

playoff home dates are included in revenue so they are also in the operating profit calc

 

[Upgrayedd]

More recently Wilbur Ross was estimated at 2.9 mil by Forbes, and declared on his declaration of net worth statement for his gov't position ~700k. Forbes took him off their billionaire list and claimed the error was because he lied to them about his net worth.

Here's another article about it, talks about Trump doing something similar, and tactics used to inflate net worth. A lot of billionaires probably lie about being billionaires

This doesn't seem to be all that uncommon a thing. Having said that, with companies, there is sometimes more robust publically available info out there; but not always.

Thanks for doing the digging, I guess my point is that the Forbes valuation is often used as a positive and thing that many people point to as a source of pride however when you look into their valuation metrics you can see it is flawed imo.

 

[Qward]

This is like having your ring appraised for $3000 even though you only paid $1299.99 for it during the tax free savings event.

Just because someone valued at one price, doesn't mean it is worth that.

 

[Pancakes Pancakes]

Since the sale of teh Sens thread is clsoed, how about this beauty from Bobby Mac. Throwing a little bit of fuel back on the fire:

"There’s been considerable talk about Eugene Melnyk’s future as the owner of the Ottawa Senators, but let’s go straight to the bottom line here: Any of the interested parties in owning the Sens, IF Melnyk chooses to or is forced to sell, see the franchise as an Ottawa team, one that will eventually be playing closer to downtown at LeBreton Flats instead of in Kanata."

Reviewing the NHL’s other franchise issues - Article - TSN

 

[ToastrStutzle]

Since the sale of teh Sens thread is clsoed, how about this beauty from Bobby Mac. Throwing a little bit of fuel back on the fire:

"There’s been considerable talk about Eugene Melnyk’s future as the owner of the Ottawa Senators, but let’s go straight to the bottom line here: Any of the interested parties in owning the Sens, IF Melnyk chooses to or is forced to sell, see the franchise as an Ottawa team, one that will eventually be playing closer to downtown at LeBreton Flats instead of in Kanata."

Reviewing the NHL’s other franchise issues - Article - TSN

I was skeptical about this at first but I think there's more here. I expect some big news in January when the NCC has their big Lebreton update. My guess is that Eugene sold a stake in the sens to finance Lebreton. I doubt he would give up full ownership.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I was skeptical about this at first but I think there's more here. I expect some big news in January when the NCC has their big Lebreton update. My guess is that Eugene sold a stake in the sens to finance Lebreton. I doubt he would give up full ownership.

Who would throw millions at Eugene for a non-controlling piece of the Sens? The Skipper didn't do so well handing off control of the Minnow to Gilligan...

 

[bert]

This is like having your ring appraised for $3000 even though you only paid $1299.99 for it during the tax free savings event.

Just because someone valued at one price, doesn't mean it is worth that.

Vegas just paid 500 for theirs its certainly worth it.

 

[Qward]

Vegas just paid 500 for theirs its certainly worth it.

Whole different situation. We have a hard number to work with Vegas.
The Ottawa appraisal is mostly speculative.

 

[bert]

Whole different situation. We have a hard number to work with Vegas.
The Ottawa appraisal is mostly speculative.

Its an established franchise compared with known and established roster with a top 5 player in the world. Its worth more than when Vegas bought theirs, if anything these projections are modest.