Post-Game Talk: Following Glass' lead, Pens-4, Jets-2

[steveg]

Must have been a night of mixed emotions for Bylsma. When Bennett scored he was like:

...but then when Adams scored:

OUT - STANDING!!!

I actually LOL-ed, loudly, at this post... !!

Steve

 

[Michael8771*]

Yeah this is dumb and you don't need to repeat it again

At least I'm explaining my rationale in this scenario than just hating on it without an explanation.

 

[Rocket of Russia]

OUT - STANDING!!!

I actually LOL-ed, loudly, at this post... !!

Steve

It really was quality.

Let's consider that now.

In the 138 minutes Gibbons has played with Sidney Crosby at even strength, he has taken 11 shots on net.

In the 207 minutes Gibbons played with someone else, he took 12 shots on net.

So no, the idea that he takes few shots because he's deferring to Sidney Crosby and would have more shots in a different assignment is something that only exists in your mind.

The same is true of pretty much everything else you wrote here, including the notion that I said Craig Adams is a better possession player than anybody.

On the topic of Gibbons, I don’t see what there is to think about him negatively at this point. I think he does a lot of good things out there. No, I don’t think he’s going to make or break a line, but that’s exactly what I’m looking for with him. When you have guys like Adams, Glass, and Pyatt out there “breaking†lines, of course I prefer the product Gibbons puts on the ice.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Must have been a night of mixed emotions for Bylsma. When Bennett scored he was like:

...but then when Adams scored:

Well done

 

[Shady Machine]

So what is your point with this shooting volume stat?

My guess is he was saying that Gibbons mustn't defer to Crosby if he shoots as often with him as without him. However, that doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't differ. Obviously he's going to get more chances with Crosby than with Sutter, who doesn't drive possession particularly well.

 

[Rocket of Russia]

If you don't like Gibbons in the lineup, next time he touches the puck ask yourself, "what would Gladams do?"

 

[Shrimper]

No Practice today?

 

[Fordy]

At least I'm explaining my rationale in this scenario than just hating on it without an explanation.

your rationale is dumb because you don't seem to care that crosby and bennett are both producing to their best of their abilities in the playoffs, and don't seem to acknowledge that that is more valuable than the third line producing to the best of their abilities. we just brought in two third line players. why do you want to limit our two best players so that the third line we just stocked up can now be overfilled?

 

[specialized]

I know people pick on Glass and Adams a lot in here, but imo Brandon Sutter is way beyond worse than either player if not worse as bad. Heck the team went out and got Goc to play the third line center in order to move Sutter to the forth line.

 

[Michael8771*]

your rationale is dumb because you don't seem to care that crosby and bennett are both producing to their best of their abilities in the playoffs, and don't seem to acknowledge that that is more valuable than the third line producing to the best of their abilities. we just brought in two third line players. why do you want to limit our two best players so that the third line we just stocked up can now be overfilled?

Who's to say that they would be ideal together anyhow? Based on what criteria? They have played a grand total of one game together in recent memory. We know Stempniak has fit in rather well there with Sid. Bennett is also a playmaking type of wing, which likely helps elevate the lesser lights production. Stempniak is more a complimentary type of player and since Sid is one of the best playmakers in the game, it's not essential for him to have another guy of that ilk on his wing. Particularly in our current situation. Since Sutter is abysmal in creating for his wings BB can very much help in that regard. We've got to have three lines who can produce. It's as simple as that.

 

[IcedCapp]

okay, I am not claiming this is the right way to do this, this is a valid method, OR that I was 100% accurate. If I missed something, it's an honest mistake.

I checked the main team twitter feed and the twitter feed of one beat writer for: The Detroit Red Wings (equally injured team), the Boston Bruins (comfortably in the playoffs team), the Anaheim Ducks (a team with more of a player's coach?), the LA Kings (more a dictator), the Maple Leafs (Desperate team, dictator, injuries, etc...) and the Buffalo Sabres.

Two things

1) No team reports on practice and off-day stuff as much as the Penguins
2) I couldn't find any instance of practice being canceled.


(I went back to the beginning of March and did a search for "practice" and a separate one for "canceled")

 

[Rocket of Russia]

I know people pick on Glass and Adams a lot in here, but imo Brandon Sutter is way beyond worse than either player if not worse as bad. Heck the team went out and got Goc to play the third line center in order to move Sutter to the forth line.

No words. Just...

 

[billybudd]

If you don't like Gibbons in the lineup, next time he touches the puck ask yourself, "what would Gladams do?"

Here's my problem with this. Our fourth line is terrible. Horrible. Abominable. Winnipeg's looked better than ours and theirs is awful.

Let's say you put Gibbons where Adams is. Does it get better? Possibly. Is it better than terrible? Lolnope.

We're talking about a guy who was thrown off a puck like a gnat by Toby Enstrom, who is, himself, small and somewhat waifish. The idea that this guy who's way too small and way too weak to win a battle on the boards against other small, weak players is some sort of answer to anything is dumbfounding to me.

If you're going to be 5'5, you need to be able to do something way, way better than anybody else. Being fast is necessary, but not sufficient to stick. With MSL and Rafalski, it was their brains. With Gerbe and Gionta, it's their indomitable tenacity.

Gibbons is fast and...that's it. His awareness isn't great, which is why he keeps getting freight trained with his head down (or, in the LA game, oblivious to the fact that Mitchell had him lined up for a career-ender and pulled up). He's not creative. I've lost count of the amount of times he gets a step on somebody and throws it blindly to the middle, straight into their stick. He's not even strong for his size, which all those other midgets are.

That Adams should retire or Glass is too slow doesn't mean Brian Gibbons has any business on the roster of an NHL playoff team.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Adams scoring in Bylsma's 250th win was probably the happiest he's ever been.

Must have been a night of mixed emotions for Bylsma. When Bennett scored he was like:

...but then when Adams scored:

Perfect.

I know people pick on Glass and Adams a lot in here, but imo Brandon Sutter is way beyond worse than either player if not worse as bad. Heck the team went out and got Goc to play the third line center in order to move Sutter to the forth line.

 

[DanFailsma]

Did you hear that the Pens played lacrosse today? No practice but they played lacrosse. Waiting to hear about injuries sustained in this endeavor.

https://twitter.com/Minnesota_Swarm (pics and stuff)

 

[On Vinyl]

I know people pick on Glass and Adams a lot in here, but imo Brandon Sutter is way beyond worse than either player if not worse as bad. Heck the team went out and got Goc to play the third line center in order to move Sutter to the forth line.

Strong user name to post content ratio

 

[UnrealMachine]

PDO http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67# second-highest on the team. Until very recently, it was the highest.

1st on team in Shooting % among active players, 7th in the NHL.

Team save percentage is also incredibly high with Gibbons on the ice. You tend to see this with four types of players--shot blockers, elite defensive forwards, players playing in front of an elite goaltender (anybody playing in front of Rask, Quick) and guys who are just getting lucky. I think it's safe to say the first three don't apply here.

Most (read: all) of Gibbons' statistical bonafides are 1-1 with things statisticians believe to be largely rooted in variance. In other words, luck. Throwing out Crosby's minutes, when GF% is very high (70%) and corsi% is low (46%), that GF number almost always swings back the other way big time.

In repeatable skills (possession, shot generation), Gibbons doesn't look like much of an asset once you separate him from Sidney Crosby. He also generates less shots on net/minute than Adams and Glass do. Think about that for a minute. A supposed skill player, who has spent ~40% of his NHL career alongside Sidney Crosby, finds himself in position to put rubber on net less frequently than two shotblockers who can barely play (and in Adams' case, cannot play at all).

Numerically, it would be insufficient to say that there are red flags associated with the numbers you've used as Gibbons' bonafides. It would be more accurate to say there's a Mr Yuck sticker on everything but penalties drawn.

And really, on that last note, how long before referees start saying to themselves: "Gee, this little guy just can't stay on his skates. He probably just fell over because he's small."

So you essentially attribute 'luck' to every one of Gibbons achievements other than penalties, but some simple clairvoyance can explain that away completely? You take the most negative x-squared viewpoint on every metric and then project it to regress to a mean that has never even been established. While tunnel-visioning on time with Crosby, you completely miss the fact that Sutter, who he has spent almost as much time with as Crosby, has a 49.8% Corsi w/Gibbons and a 41.5% without. You also miss the fact that Gibbon's goals against are significantly lower without Crosby (GA/20 = 1.015 with vs 0.386 without). As for shooting pct., his goals have been off of quality shots. He's not throwing creampuffs towards the net like Adams and resorting to the power of prayer. As for generating shots, it's his first season in the NHL, he is playing out of his normal center position, and he has different linemates practically every game. To see his accomplishments, both with one's eyes and through statistical metrics and coming to the conclusion that he is not an NHL player, as you do, is a (bad) joke. You do make some good points though to consider.

 

[cygnus47]

Here's my problem with this. Our fourth line is terrible. Horrible. Abominable. Winnipeg's looked better than ours and theirs is awful.

Let's say you put Gibbons where Adams is. Does it get better? Possibly. Is it better than terrible? Lolnope.

We're talking about a guy who was thrown off a puck like a gnat by Toby Enstrom, who is, himself, small and somewhat waifish. The idea that this guy who's way too small and way too weak to win a battle on the boards against other small, weak players is some sort of answer to anything is dumbfounding to me.

If you're going to be 5'5, you need to be able to do something way, way better than anybody else. Being fast is necessary, but not sufficient to stick. With MSL and Rafalski, it was their brains. With Gerbe and Gionta, it's their indomitable tenacity.

Gibbons is fast and...that's it. His awareness isn't great, which is why he keeps getting freight trained with his head down (or, in the LA game, oblivious to the fact that Mitchell had him lined up for a career-ender and pulled up). He's not creative. I've lost count of the amount of times he gets a step on somebody and throws it blindly to the middle, straight into their stick. He's not even strong for his size, which all those other midgets are.

That Adams should retire or Glass is too slow doesn't mean Brian Gibbons has any business on the roster of an NHL playoff team.

So being our biggest PK threat, having a better p/g average than Bennett, Sutter, Vitale and despite your false claims of the opposite actually being able to make a pass isn't enough to be an NHL player?

I don't know where you get lack of awareness from either. He's taken maybe 2 proper hits since he's been up? His advanced stats are better than even for everything. Are you also short or something? Jealous?

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Did you hear that the Pens played lacrosse today? No practice but they played lacrosse. Waiting to hear about injuries sustained in this endeavor.

https://twitter.com/Minnesota_Swarm (pics and stuff)

Oh good, Sid was the goalie...

Ankle, oblique, wrist, knee or hand injuries incoming, or maybe a groin injury. It's a ****ing summer camp.

 

[Shady Machine]

okay, I am not claiming this is the right way to do this, this is a valid method, OR that I was 100% accurate. If I missed something, it's an honest mistake.

I checked the main team twitter feed and the twitter feed of one beat writer for: The Detroit Red Wings (equally injured team), the Boston Bruins (comfortably in the playoffs team), the Anaheim Ducks (a team with more of a player's coach?), the LA Kings (more a dictator), the Maple Leafs (Desperate team, dictator, injuries, etc...) and the Buffalo Sabres.

Two things

1) No team reports on practice and off-day stuff as much as the Penguins
2) I couldn't find any instance of practice being canceled.


(I went back to the beginning of March and did a search for "practice" and a separate one for "canceled")

Yeah it's hard to find out information it seems. I started a thread on main board asking and people just told me it was a good idea to cancel practice. A Shark's fan said they have cancelled a fair amount of practices recently.

 

[hiptanaka]

Did you hear that the Pens played lacrosse today? No practice but they played lacrosse. Waiting to hear about injuries sustained in this endeavor.

https://twitter.com/Minnesota_Swarm (pics and stuff)

Im surprised they're playing lacrosse in their off-days when they should be practicing wiffle ball.

 

[MrBurghundy]

As you should Ron, that's good stuff.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Did you hear that the Pens played lacrosse today? No practice but they played lacrosse. Waiting to hear about injuries sustained in this endeavor.

https://twitter.com/Minnesota_Swarm (pics and stuff)

Makes sense. Those guys are tired. They deserve time to rest by playing another sport.

 

[ColePens]

Makes sense. Those guys are tired. They deserve time to rest by playing another sport.

I know I'm nitpicking, but that does bother me. If it's about resting... then don't **** around right before playoffs. I'm completely fine with them doing this, but don't cancel practice and then play lacrosse. Jesus... I like a calm and cool room, but come on.

We are playing like ass recently and cancelling practice for the main reason of getting rest/health. Playing lacrosse does not fit that mold.

 

[billybudd]

So you essentially attribute 'luck' to every one of Gibbons achievements other than penalties, but some simple clairvoyance can explain that away completely? You take the most negative x-squared viewpoint on every metric and then project it to regress to a mean that has never even been established. While tunnel-visioning on time with Crosby, you completely miss the fact that Sutter, who he has spent almost as much time with as Crosby, has a 49.8% Corsi w/Gibbons and a 41.5% without. You also miss the fact that Gibbon's goals against are significantly lower without Crosby (GA/20 = 1.015 with vs 0.386 without). As for shooting pct., his goals have been off of quality shots. He's not throwing creampuffs towards the net like Adams and resorting to the power of prayer. As for generating shots, it's his first season in the NHL, he is playing out of his normal center position, and he has different linemates practically every game. To see his accomplishments, both with one's eyes and through statistical metrics and coming to the conclusion that he is not an NHL player, as you do, is a (bad) joke. You do make some good points though to consider.

I don't attribute the numbers you've given for Gibbons to luck. The same people who came up with the metrics you used do.

Understand, Gibbons was leading the NHL in PDO not long ago. When a guy's PDO is league-highest, unless he's, for example, Stamkos, every other stat, advanced or conventional, needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

Three types of players "run really, really hot" with PDO.

1. Guys who play in front of franchise goaltenders.
2. The NHL's very, very best players (Stamkos, Crosby)
3. Guys who have experienced good luck thus far. These guys regress heavily.

Which one of these can possibly be a description of Brian Gibbons?