Post-Game Talk: Flyers 4 at Kings 2 | Oct. 14, 2016 | Regular Season Game 1

[LastWordArmy]

Youth leads the way for the Flyers in win.

http://lastwordonhockey.com/2016/10/15/youth-philadelphia-flyers-victory/

 

[deadhead]

Provorov doesn't look fast because of his skating style, he's smooth but isn't churning his legs, but he's faster than he looks, he just doesn't use his speed that often because he gets rid of the puck quickly and trails the play (i.e. he's deliberately not rushing up the ice to protect against turnovers). But a couple times he turned on the jets on the rush and it was obvious that he has some quicks.

I think Morin has a similar issue, in his case, those long strides skating don't look like he's moving very fast, until you watch him pass people.

Down the road, I think Provorov is going to be a big time scorer, this year he'll probably be limited because he's adjusting to the NHL, but watching his passing and his wrist shot, when he becomes more aggressive in the O-zone he's gonna rack up a lot of assists and a few goals, because he can put the puck on a forward's stick.

 

[FatTugboatFlahr]

Provy has a stride that eats up a ton of space. Completely deceptive style.

 

[Lindberg]

Deadhead - I don't think Provorov can see how much tire pumping you have going for him. We got it, you like him and you think he will be better than Ghost.

 

[Striiker]

One thing Provorov did last night that was pretty cool was at one point he had the puck in the Dzone and skated it out by shadowing a King who was skating back to his bench on a change. The guy didn't/couldn't turn around or it would risk too many men since guys were already jumping over the boards but it paved a nice path for Provorov to take the puck through with no problems.

 

[Sombastate]

Kyle Clifford is Ghost Face Kicker.

Haha!!

 

[FLYguy3911]

However, I still take offense to people implying Shayne isn't a good defender. Completely devaluing a very active stick and great anticipation. It's almost like if he isn't bullying people off the puck it doesn't count.

https://gfycat.com/DeafeningDistinctHog

Unfortunately Jake flubbed the chance but that's turning defense into offense. He's also plays on his off-side which makes defending one-on-one a little more complicated.

 

[whitstifier]

On the main board after the World Cup, one guy claimed that he gritted his teeth everytime Gostisbehere had the puck in the D-zone. Like WTF are people watching when Gostisbehere plays?

 

[FLYguy3911]

On the main board after the World Cup, one guy claimed that he gritted his teeth everytime Gostisbehere had the puck in the D-zone. Like WTF are people watching when Gostisbehere plays?

Looking for reasons to believe he's not better than "their" guy.

He was leading the tournament in points and had the best possession numbers on Team NA up until they were eliminated.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

https://gfycat.com/DeafeningDistinctHog

Unfortunately Jake flubbed the chance but that's turning defense into offense. He's also plays on his off-side which makes defending one-on-one a little more complicated.

I swear some fans completely filter out all of these slick defensive plays by Ghost and only notice the times he's forced to try to defend a bigger guy in the crease, which isn't all that often.

 

[shartnell]

On the main board after the World Cup, one guy claimed that he gritted his teeth everytime Gostisbehere had the puck in the D-zone. Like WTF are people watching when Gostisbehere plays?

They just have the idea in their head that offensive defensemen are necessarily bad at defense, and then their brain just cherry picks visual information based on that bias.

 

[BillDineen]

Cousins continuously improving but getting disrespected. If he was a first round draft pick everyone her on this site would be praising him.

 

[whitstifier]

Cousins continuously improving but getting disrespected. If he was a first round draft pick everyone her on this site would be praising him.

He's been okay. When healthy, I'd prefer Laughton on the ice over Cousins.

 

[Striiker]

Cousins continuously improving but getting disrespected. If he was a first round draft pick everyone her on this site would be praising him.

Well if he was a first round pick he'd be better than he is, and if he was better then yeah he'd get more praise.

Last night he was pretty damn invisible unless you were specifically looking for him, which isn't really a bad thing for a bottom 6 player. He did do a nice job on the first goal though.

 

[Appleyard]

Cousins continuously improving but getting disrespected. If he was a first round draft pick everyone her on this site would be praising him.

I think he did a really good job last year... and is a pretty good hockey player.

The only questions I have with him is where does he fit in the Flyers NHL line-up going forward. He is pesky and gritty but is not too strong player defensively and while he has improved his skating is not explosive for his size. And our top 6 is already pretty darn good with more players coming soon, especially at wing.

I think 'his' slot on the roster going forward is really 3C. Especially with Raffl & Weise both locked in on the wings, and Laughton, Leier, Lindblom, Aube-Kubel etc all looking for a roster spot either right now or next year.

I mean, I think we know he has the talent to produce at the level of a good 3C already. (i.e. ~30 points) But the questions that remain unanswered relate to if he can do the other things that make a good 3rd liner. There are not too many good, long-term 3C's in the NHL who are not either in the PK rotation or capable of taking some tougher minutes.

If Cousins can expand his retinue this year and show better D I think he could well be a piece on the roster going forward... but if he does not I think he is likely a stop-gap.

I mean, if we look at recent cup finalists and their 3C's:

Kelly, Malhotra, Stoll, Zajac, Shaw, Kelly, Stoll, Brassard, Vermette, Filpulla, Bonino, Tierney

They averaged ~31 point pace the year their teams got to the final... which I think Cousins is capable of for sure, but:

Their PKTOI was as follows:

Kelly: 1:54
Malhotra: 2:45
Stoll: 2:02
Zajac: 1:18
Shaw: 0:04
Kelly: 2:17
Stoll: 2:06
Brassard: 0:14
Vermette: 1:26
Filpulla: 1:13
Bonino: 2:19
Tierney: 1:31

The only players not a regular on their teams PK units were Shaw & Brassard... Cousins is never going to be Derek Brassard (and Brassard is a good 5v5 defensive player.)

So that leaves Shaw... who is probably actually the guy on the list most similar to Cousins in a lot of ways. Both gritty, both have some offensive ability, neither are great defensively and are not really 'conventional' 3C's.


I mean, I hope Cousins can continue to round out his game and become the kind of player who could be a legit 3C on a contender... but he needs to add more strings to his bow in all likelihood to still be a Flyer ~2 years down the line... as there are quite a lot of guys who can get ~30 points at 3C with better D than he does at the present time.

 

[Magua]

I thought Cousins had a damn good game for being out of position. He will need to keep that up to stay in the lineup and, eventually, to avoid being the Flyers best unprotected player.

For a small player with slow feet, I don't know how he does it, especially in the cycle game. He must have surprising strength and balance. I still stick to Cousins being the better center than PEB. It's especially noticeable in the way he controls the flow of the game with the puck in both ends, with the exits and the passing. I think PEB is best when he's skating through the NZ or getting shots off and looks the part more of a winger, but I'm in the minority apparently.

After this 1 game at least, it isn't Cousins whose spot appears in jeopardy. They will find him a spot, wherever it is.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

Fair enough. I'm with you on both. Konecny is physically ready. He's just small. He will always lose some physical battles to bigger players. He will then blow by them on his next shift.

Ghost is an excellent defender on the rush and in the neutral zone. He only struggles defending the cycle and like Konecny, will lose battles to bigger players from time to time because that's how physics works.

You're right we should have left TK in the OHL where he would grow 3 lore inches and put on 30 more pounds.

 

[Laveuglette]

Streit looked better than last year. He was definitely playing hurt.

So our healthy line-up will be

Schenn - Giroux - Simmonds
Konecny - Couturier - Voracek
Raffl - Cousins - Weise
Bellemare - Gordon - Read
Laughton, VdV

Del Zotto - Gostisbehere
Streit - Provorov
Gudas - Schultz
Manning, MacDonald

Mason
Neuvirth

Do we finally have a true top 6, true bottom 6, true top 4 D, true 3rd D pair and true goaltending??? And depth, and prospects? Nice.

 

[AaronTrieu]

I like the make up of this team. It is still cap strapped so hexy is doing a good job making this team watchable and a possible playoff team.

Konency looks really good. I'd be pleased with a 50 Pt season if he stays healthy on the top two lines.

 

[tymed]

Cousins got the scoring started last night setting up Gordon and then made another really nice play out of the corner and up to Provy for his first NHL point. He's a guy who's been trending upwards for his entire amateur and professional career and for over 5 year with us now. He's always gotten little credit as a prospect around here and never any without earning every bit of it first.

11/12-OHL-1.35 ppg, led team in scoring by 32 pts.
12/13-OHL-1.61 ppg, led team in scoring by 37 pts.
13/14-AHL-0.30 ppg, 6th in a weak phantoms scoring, only 6 pts back from 2nd.
14/15-AHL-0.88 ppg, led team in scoring by 3 pts.
15/16-AHL-1.00 ppg over 38 gp, led team in scoring before call up.
15/16-NHL-0.31 ppg over 36 gp.
16/17-NHL-2.00 ppg in 1 gp.

He's got some rounding out to do if he wants to stick down that 3C gig and getting temporarily assigned to the wing adjusting for an injury in the lineup is a friendly little reminder of that to him. He's been an underdog for the entirety of and made a career of his ability to overcome adversity so you can't really count him out until he stops improving. His biggest weakness and other weaknesses revolve around his much improved skating that still needs to continue to improve. Having Raffl and Weiss for wingers is going to work out really well for him this year, barring injury I can see him posting 35ish and improving his overall pro game. The staff seem to be impressed with his ability.

 

[deadhead]

He's been okay. When healthy, I'd prefer Laughton on the ice over Cousins.

Not at center, don't confuse size and speed with skills.
Cousins clearly is a better passer and has better "ice vision" than Laughton.
Some guys just know how to find the open guy and hit him with a pass.

 

[Curufinwe]

If he does well at 3LW then maybe they will have him replace VdV at 4LW when Raffl comes back. Or leave him there, and have Raffl replace VdV.

For god's sake just have someone replace VDV already.

 

[Appleyard]

If he does well at 3LW then maybe they will have him replace VdV at 4LW when Raffl comes back. Or leave him there, and have Raffl replace VdV.

For god's sake just have someone replace VDV already.

Yeh, we need:

Schenn back
Lyubimov showing his ability

and then VdV's spot is pretty much untenable... and maybe Hextall can work some magic and get like a 5th rounder for him from some team who just look at his size and his number of PK minutes. Though ofc I would be also happy with him simply strengthening the Phantoms bottom six.

 

[Rebels57]

VandeVelde has compromising pictures of Hakstol. Only explanation.

 

[deadhead]

As far as Konecny's size, he's not going to get much bigger, but he'll get stronger, and better at leverage the next few years. He's not going to win a lot of battles in the corners, but he'll be able to produce more "draws."