Flukiest 50-Goal scorer

[overg]

I'll refer you to my numbers above. The guy could score. Get him the puck, and he could put it in the net. His only problem as far as production was that he was rarely played with actual talent. If he were to play his career NOW, he'd likely be more productive than he was then despite the fact that scoring is down. Simply because coaches now have more of a tendency to "match" players.

Oh yeah, sorry if my language was ambiguous, but I was very much agreeing with you that Sheppard was a good goal scorer. He used a very long stick to his advantage to snipe all kinds of goals. I was just pointing out that his sniping prowess was very much at odds with his skating, which was pretty terrible.

In any event, having watched his 50 goal season (and his 50 goal pace the following lockout season), I'd say the bigger surprise was that he never approached those numbers any other season. Although once again, that's probably explained by the fact that we was a very poor skater. I suspect this kept him from playing with higher end talent for more of his career. But once he got linemates like Yzerman and Federov, he converted on the opportunities they created.

 

[pdd]

But once he got linemates like Yzerman and Federov, he converted on the opportunities they created.

He played mostly with Fedorov in 91-92 and didn't hit 40. He had crazy chemistry with Yzerman, and Primeau on the LW, that he jumped to 50 until he went to San Jose.

 

[nutbar]

How did Gary Leeman ever score 50 goals?

 

[Wizeman*]

Oh come on . The flukiest 50 was that guy from Chicago who was mainly a goon. I forget his name.

 

[fish7]

Wayne Babych was the first guy I thought of when I saw this thread. I either went to, listened to or watched every game in 1980-81 and he just had one of those years where everything went right for him. He played on a line with Blake Dunlop and Jorgen Pettersson after spending his first two years with Federko. He and Brett Hull are the only guys not to have their career year on Federko's right wing
Anyway Babych was bound to get hurt, he did not have the body to play the hard hitting way he played

 

[David Bruce Banner]

It would be nice if someone could write something on Craig Simpson, he is completly white place on my map.

He looked like Rob Lowe for one... and he scored a lot of his goals from within 5 feet of the net... and he took a beating while doing so.

If he hadn't looked like Rob Lowe, and played for the Oilers... I might have liked him.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

No. He was a career PPG player and since he hit 50 year before, your claim is indefensible. If it would be true than what about Bernie Nicholls? He was also a very good player no matter of his unrepeatable 150 or so points.

Carpenter? Barrin his very inflated stats in his NJ's late-career role, was he much worse than Sheppard?

It would be nice if someone could write something on Craig Simpson, he is completly white place on my map.

It's a thread about 50 goals, not points.

Maruk was a 30-goal scorer and then exploded for 50 and 60, and then completely crashed.

Hitting the iconic 60-plateau was a massive fluke when you consider the company that mark keeps.

Carpenter lost all goal scoring capabilities after his 50-goal season until he found a slight touch five years later, but he never hit 30 again. Ray Sheppard would have had three 40-goal seasons immediately after his 50+ if you go by GPG

I cant call Sheppard a fluke at all, unless you detract for games lost to inury.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

Oh come on . The flukiest 50 was that guy from Chicago who was mainly a goon. I forget his name.

Al Secord?

Injuries Injuries Injuries

 

[begbeee]

It's a thread about 50 goals, not points.

Maruk was a 30-goal scorer and then exploded for 50 and 60, and then completely crashed.

Hitting the iconic 60-plateau was a massive fluke when you consider the company that mark keeps.

Carpenter lost all goal scoring capabilities after his 50-goal season until he found a slight touch five years later, but he never hit 30 again. Ray Sheppard would have had three 40-goal seasons immediately after his 50+ if you go by GPG

I cant call Sheppard a fluke at all, unless you detract for games lost to inury.

Fluke is something extraordinary, incredible, unrepeatable. Since Maruk scored 50 twice, it's IMO impossible to call him a fluke. You call Maruk a fluke? Shutt is there before him. Maruk scored them with decent players but far from HOF. Shutt did on stacked team on a line with Lafleur and he gets a free pass?

Carpenter: put away his defensive role from NJ and you get a career average about 82 games and 29 goals. It's really not that bad. Sheppard has career average about 82 games and 35 goals, what is not much better. My point was that if you cant call Sheppard a fluke, you can't call a fluke Carpenter, either.

 

[Hobnobs]

Definitly Jaques Richard

 

[Steve Kournianos]

Fluke is something extraordinary, incredible, unrepeatable. Since Maruk scored 50 twice, it's IMO impossible to call him a fluke. You call Maruk a fluke? Shutt is there before him. Maruk scored them with decent players but far from HOF. Shutt did on stacked team on a line with Lafleur and he gets a free pass?

Carpenter: put away his defensive role from NJ and you get a career average about 82 games and 29 goals. It's really not that bad. Sheppard has career average about 82 games and 35 goals, what is not much better. My point was that if you cant call Sheppard a fluke, you can't call a fluke Carpenter, either.

LOL Wow!

"Let's ignore all the years Bobby Carpenter couldn't score, but include the years Ray Sheppard declined, just so it makes my argument presentable"

Please identify one season from 1986 to 1992 in which Carpenter was on pace for 35 goals, let alone 40.

And Carpenter had a defensive role in Boston too. The reason he made the switch was because he couldn't score, which wasn't the case with Sheppard until the end of his career.

And Steve Shutt bookended his 60 goal season with 45 and 49 goals, then hit 47 a few seasons later.

In a five year span, he finished 8th, 1st, 3rd and 10th the goals. He was a consistent and accredited NHL sniper. His closest seasons to 60 were -11 (from 60), -13 and -15

Maruk's closest to 60 were -10, -24 and -29

 

[IComeInPeace]

Carpenter was the 3rd overall pick, and put up 32 goal seasons as an 18 yr old, again as a 19 yr old...before hitting 50 a couple seasons later. While 50 was somewhat of a surprise, virtually everyone figured he'd become a consistent 40 goal guy in his 20's...

I think a guy that everyone sees as having legit NHL potential of being a consistent 40 goal-ish type...when he scores 50, I'm not sure that's altogether a fluke as much as it might just be a guy getting really confident, and getting a couple extra bounces to go his way.

I actually think the 50 goal season really hurt Carpenter. Everyone changed their perception of him, expecting him to be a sniper. But that wasn't his game. Without that pressure, I think he would have been a very steady 35-40 goal NHL scorer, who played great at both ends of the ice.

As someone else mentioned a fluke to me is where someone hits 50 after really showing no sign of ever having the potential to reach that mark. I also don't think it can be classified a fluke if you hit 50 playing with Mario, or Wayne or an elite playmaker of that ilk (or a step down).
BJ MacDonald almost scored 50 with a less than his peak Gretzky. While it might otherwise be a fluke, playing aside Gretzky, not at all. Anyone playing a full season alongside Wayne always had a shot at the 50 mark.

 

[Jumptheshark]

I wouldn't call a lot of the players named in this thread "fluky". Their 50 goal seasons were earned, it just may look a little off compared to the rest of their careers.

Just to comment on a few of the choices so far:

Jacques Richard: It's been talked about on here before, but sadly Richard struggled with alcohol and drug addiction throughout most of his life. The fact that he was able to put together such a great year in 80-81 makes you wonder how good his career could have been if he stayed clean.

Guy Chounaird: Two years after his 50 goal season, he was at close to that same pace in an injury shortened year (31 goals in 52 games), so that season wasn't that out of the ordinary. But he was most effective as a playmaker, so that how he was often used. In Lanny McDonald's book, he gives Chounaird a lot of credit for Lanny's 66 goal season in '82-'83.

Wayne Babych: It was his third season when he hit the 50 goal mark, and it was a natural progression with his GPG increasing each year. He likely would've had several more playing with Federko; but starting the following season he was hampered by injuries that took their toll, and he was never able to get fully back on track

A list of Babych's injury problems:

I forgot babych was an oiler for awhile

 

[Rumcajs]

Cheechoo by far.

 

[IComeInPeace]

It has been said that Wayne Babych's career turned when he fought Big Behn Wilson, who beat the tar our of him (was it a broken jaw or orbital bone that resulted?)...
For a guy that used his physicality to create space for himself, that could have been a turning point. I think Kevin Stevens was never the same after breaking his orbital when (I think) Richard Pilon boarded him.
Was it Bad Dalgarno that was also still a fairly highly sought of prospect, but had Kocur break his face, and was never the physical presence after that.
I think guys who play the game physically can have a mental blockage (rightfully so) that makes it hard for them to play with the same edge...

I knew Babych fell apart, but looking at his numbers, his last St Louis season aside, he was still putting up numbers at a pace much better than I had remembered, up until his last 4 game stint. He wasnt that far off a PPG pace (more like a .75-.80 PPG pace).

 

[Yamaguchi*]

Of course, it's Jonathan Cheechoo.

 

[GKJ]

One thing about Cheechoo, he only scored in 38 games. He had 13 goals against the Ducks, 12 of those in hat tricks. Things like that is how get got out of wack.

 

[begbeee]

"Let's ignore all the years Bobby Carpenter couldn't score, but include the years Ray Sheppard declined, just so it makes my argument presentable"
Please identify one season from 1986 to 1992 in which Carpenter was on pace for 35 goals, let alone 40.
And Carpenter had a defensive role in Boston too. The reason he made the switch was because he couldn't score, which wasn't the case with Sheppard until the end of his career.

Injuries happend to him. He finally found himself usable in Devils when Lou gave him opportunity.From 1982 to 1986 he was 24th in goal totals and almost everyone above him is HOFer now. His 50 goals season after two and almost three 30+ goals campaigns is simply not a fluke by any means. You're judging him because of hindsight what happened after that, at the time it was not a fluke and in all seriousness it shouldnot be called so now either.

And Steve Shutt bookended his 60 goal season with 45 and 49 goals, then hit 47 a few seasons later.

In a five year span, he finished 8th, 1st, 3rd and 10th the goals. He was a consistent and accredited NHL sniper. His closest seasons to 60 were -11 (from 60), -13 and -15

Maruk's closest to 60 were -10, -24 and -29

These numbers do favour for or against Shutt? Because they are pretty much similar to me.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

Injuries happend to him. He finally found himself usable in Devils when Lou gave him opportunity.From 1982 to 1986 he was 24th in goal totals and almost everyone above him is HOFer now. His 50 goals season after two and almost three 30+ goals campaigns is simply not a fluke by any means. You're judging him because of hindsight what happened after that, at the time it was not a fluke and in all seriousness it shouldnot be called so now either.

These numbers do favour for or against Shutt? Because they are pretty much similar to me.

In the 14 years after scoring 50 goals, Carpenter never scored 30 goals again. He was completely healthy in 1986 and saw his goal total decrease from 53 to 27.

The injury excuse doesnt help Carpenter. It simply supports Sheppard.

Sheppard without injury/strike would have bookended his 50-goal season with a 39 goal season and a 59 goal season. In 1996, he would have scored 43 goals.

Sheppard's four year total over a full season would have been:

39
52
59
43

Carpenter's best four year period reads:

32
32
53
27

It's pretty obvious to me. How LL used him or injuries or top-25 in goals wont prevent Sheppard from being a far superior and consistent goal scorer.

And scoring 11 and 14 less goals than somebody is not similar. Not in any universe.

Shutt finished 8th, 3rd and 10th in goals in his 2-4th best seasons

Maruk didnt crack the top-10 in any of his non-50 seasons.

So yeah, Shutt was a better goal scorer than Maruk, and he was consistent over a longer period.