Flint Firebirds (OHL) players quit?

[Yobbles]

"Sell the team and move them to Belleville" says this Gens fan.

 

[TheDude25]

Something happen in Flint?? Haha! Most press I've seen for the OHL all year!

what about if the player is a generational type player though? Say McDavid's dad was an owner and their team had the first pick in his OHL draft. Is it fair to say no you can't pick him either?

I know it would be extremely rare case, but is easily possible for a son to be a very good player. Though I'm not sure how you would limit it to bad players, especially since a player's talent and abilities can change from when he's drafted until he becomes too old.

I get your point....but, the main point of all this is....dad's with exceptional son's don't need to buy teams.

 

[TheDude25]

"Sell the team and move them to Belleville" says this Gens fan.

Belleville was sold by a dad....looking to get out because his son was finished.

 

[Leafsdude7]

I'm sure Carboneau wasn't fired because he wasn't playing the owners son enough though. Or any other conflict of interest reasoning to fire him for that matter.

Wasn't Bob Gainey President/GM at that time? Imagine if Steve was playing for the Habs at the time and Guy was fired for playing him in only 20 games over the season for 5 minutes each? As I noted in the Flint season thread, the players would have had a union to file official grievances with to negate the likelihood of a walkout like here, and Gainey Sr would have had a Board of Governors who probably would have canned his ass ASAP and reinstated Guy right after, but the point remains even in the NHL it would have been an action the players wouldn't have tolerated and, if they didn't have any other recourse, they might have done the same as these kids did.

sure but not just a 1st overall pick, say 10th overall, most teams probably have a list where the like 1 specific guy over everyone else at that spot unlike a 4th round pick for example. If BPA is your owners son then you can't go BPA, you can still trade down

Correct me if I'm wrong (and the article I mentioned seems to suggest so by stating the Firebirds have 2 potential top-5 picks), but I thought trading of 1st rounders was not allowed in the CHL.

what about if the player is a generational type player though? Say McDavid's dad was an owner and their team had the first pick in his OHL draft. Is it fair to say no you can't pick him either?

An option to get around that (considering I'm correct with the above) is to allow for drafting but, as noted in Macker's second link, disallow signing a general contract agreement. In that case, they still can benefit from a high-end prospect (even if the return would be reduced for many obvious reasons) in rare situations like the above.

 

[IHaveNoCreativity]

This is insane..

 

[pabst blue ribbon]

Straight out of a movie

 

[Hammer9001]

1925 Hamilton Tigers (NHL). That didn't end well.

No kidding, talk about re-opening old wounds.

"Sell the team and move them to Belleville" says this Gens fan.

As a Bulldogs fan, I'm all for that. Felt bad that we benefited at Belleville's expense. Just hope that the city updates the arena if that does happen, so it won't happen again a couple years down the road. Keep in mind though, you are pretty much salting the earth if this happens. If I'm a flint fan, I'm not impressed if the leauge strung me along like this.

 

[Clark4Ever]

The OHL should prevent teams from acquiring players that are relatives of anyone in the front office or coaching staff. It can easily develop into a conflict of interest, as this situation exemplifies.

 

[Whalers Fan]

One far-fetched possibility isn't a good reason to not create a rule that will prevent many more possible problems that have both occurred in the past or may occur in the future. Plus in a situation like that a team could trade that pick for a kings ransom. You could probably get a team good enough to win a Memorial Cup if you were willing to trade the Crosby or McDavid picks for example.

Windsor Spitfires owner Warren Rychel's son Kirby was an NHL first round pick, and played for his dad's team in Windsor, so it does happen. Kirby wasn't a "generational talent", but he he was a top prospect.

 

[Hammer9001]

The OHL should prevent teams from acquiring players that are relatives of anyone in the front office or coaching staff. It can easily develop into a conflict of interest, as this situation exemplifies.

I completely agree. Frankly, if you have an owner who is only buying for this reason, or objects to this, then you have a bad owner.

 

[Opinionated]

Unfortunately, we will never know everything about this situation.

Most alternatives for resolution leave someone looking lame duck or laughing stock.

My belief of the resolution:

1. Gruden will remain fired -- as a league, they cannot allow the players to make the call on coaching decisions, regardless of how right the players might be.
2. The rest of the coaching staff will be retained, and one of them will be elevated to head coach.
3. Gruden will be paid handsomely by ownership (at the league's insistence) to talk to the players and take the hit for this one -- something like "Thanks for the support, but you need to go play for the new coach and show everybody that you are hockey players".
4. Ownership will be severely reprimanded and fined. This will likely be done behind the scenes -- the league needs to seem like it supports its owners.
5. The son will be traded, almost immediately.
6. A new rule will be instituted very shortly forbidding owners from having their sons on their teams -- regardless of how good they are or aren't.
7. Flint, as a result of this fiasco, will suffer as a franchise -- neither players nor coaches will want to come there for years. As a result, they will be for sale within 2 years.

 

[Rocko604]

So does this mean the Flint Michigan Mega Bowl will be postponed, or cancelled outright?

 

[Mightygoose]

Kiss and make up?

 

[oilwave]

Quitting is never the answer imo. There are better ways to show displeasure for the decision to fire the coaches but ultimately it's their owners decision. They may not be professionals the way NHL players are but they made a commitment.

What?! People quit their jobs for moral reasons all the time. It's not just right it's admirable.

 

[chances14]

Kiss and make up?

not quite

 

[WhatTheDuck]

No kidding, talk about re-opening old wounds.



As a Bulldogs fan, I'm all for that. Felt bad that we benefited at Belleville's expense. Just hope that the city updates the arena if that does happen, so it won't happen again a couple years down the road. Keep in mind though, you are pretty much salting the earth if this happens. If I'm a flint fan, I'm not impressed if the leauge strung me along like this.

As a lifelong Bulls fan, I appreciate the sentiment. I do think we will see OHL hockey back in the city, but I hope it comes in the form of expansion and not at anyone's expense. Cheers

 

[Macker88]

LeafsDude, Trading first round picks in the OHL is not allowed. The reference is because the Firebird receive a compensatory pick for Ryan McLeod not reporting to the club. Since he went 3rd in last year's draft it's assumed the compensatory will be on the top 5 pick. It's why Niagara and Owen Sound had two first round picks in last year's draft. Logan Brown was a Niagara pick and Victor Mete and Owen Sound Pick, they did not report and the teams we're given compensatory pick.

As for people assuming Hakon Nielsen will be traded. Sure in theory that makes some sense. But think about it from this perspective. Hakon is considered a boarder line OHL defenseman. IMO he's an average tier 2 Jr. A player or a good Midget AAA, not an OHL player. Now I ask why would a rival OHL club trade an asset to Flint for a player who is not OHL calibre ? This whole issue came about because Gruden didn't wanna give him ice because he wasn't deserving of it.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

LeafsDude, Trading first round picks in the OHL is not allowed. The reference is because the Firebird receive a compensatory pick for Ryan McLeod not reporting to the club. Since he went 3rd in last year's draft it's assumed the compensatory will be on the top 5 pick. It's why Niagara and Owen Sound had two first round picks in last year's draft. Logan Brown was a Niagara pick and Victor Mete and Owen Sound Pick, they did not report and the teams we're given compensatory pick.

As for people assuming Hakon Nielsen will be traded. Sure in theory that makes some sense. But think about it from this perspective. Hakon is considered a boarder line OHL defenseman. IMO he's an average tier 2 Jr. A player or a good Midget AAA, not an OHL player. Now I ask why would a rival OHL club trade an asset to Flint for a player who is not OHL calibre ? This whole issue came about because Gruden didn't wanna give him ice because he wasn't deserving of it.

The "asset" doesn't necessarily have to be anything more than a conditional draft pick based on games played.

 

[Leafsdude7]

LeafsDude, Trading first round picks in the OHL is not allowed. The reference is because the Firebird receive a compensatory pick for Ryan McLeod not reporting to the club. Since he went 3rd in last year's draft it's assumed the compensatory will be on the top 5 pick. It's why Niagara and Owen Sound had two first round picks in last year's draft. Logan Brown was a Niagara pick and Victor Mete and Owen Sound Pick, they did not report and the teams we're given compensatory pick.

Thought so. Thanks for the clarification re: the compensatory pick.

 

[gifted88]

Unfortunately, we will never know everything about this situation.

Most alternatives for resolution leave someone looking lame duck or laughing stock.

My belief of the resolution:

1. Gruden will remain fired -- as a league, they cannot allow the players to make the call on coaching decisions, regardless of how right the players might be.
2. The rest of the coaching staff will be retained, and one of them will be elevated to head coach.
3. Gruden will be paid handsomely by ownership (at the league's insistence) to talk to the players and take the hit for this one -- something like "Thanks for the support, but you need to go play for the new coach and show everybody that you are hockey players".
4. Ownership will be severely reprimanded and fined. This will likely be done behind the scenes -- the league needs to seem like it supports its owners.
5. The son will be traded, almost immediately.
6. A new rule will be instituted very shortly forbidding owners from having their sons on their teams -- regardless of how good they are or aren't.
7. Flint, as a result of this fiasco, will suffer as a franchise -- neither players nor coaches will want to come there for years. As a result, they will be for sale within 2 years.

lol, well so far you are a bit off...

 

[gifted88]

Doug Gilmour drafted his son Jake in the 8th round in 2012 and traded him. I think he later traded for him back...though not sure on the details.

The Hunters had their son/nephew Dylan Hunter with the Knights for his entire OHL career. He was even captain for 2 years.

It doesn't always turn out like this situation with Flint. Not sure they need to make up a rule for it. This type of thing happens all the time in workplaces around the world. An owner can employ whoever they want really.

 

[kurri_17]

Unfortunately, we will never know everything about this situation.

Most alternatives for resolution leave someone looking lame duck or laughing stock.

My belief of the resolution:

1. Gruden will remain fired -- as a league, they cannot allow the players to make the call on coaching decisions, regardless of how right the players might be.
2. The rest of the coaching staff will be retained, and one of them will be elevated to head coach.
3. Gruden will be paid handsomely by ownership (at the league's insistence) to talk to the players and take the hit for this one -- something like "Thanks for the support, but you need to go play for the new coach and show everybody that you are hockey players".
4. Ownership will be severely reprimanded and fined. This will likely be done behind the scenes -- the league needs to seem like it supports its owners.
5. The son will be traded, almost immediately.
6. A new rule will be instituted very shortly forbidding owners from having their sons on their teams -- regardless of how good they are or aren't.
7. Flint, as a result of this fiasco, will suffer as a franchise -- neither players nor coaches will want to come there for years. As a result, they will be for sale within 2 years.

nice. i'd be willing to buy a lottery ticket if 1-7 were my numbers.

Edit: well damn, that was quick.

 

[Hammer9001]

As a lifelong Bulls fan, I appreciate the sentiment. I do think we will see OHL hockey back in the city, but I hope it comes in the form of expansion and not at anyone's expense. Cheers

True, but if it has to happen from relocation, you'd like to see it happen with an expansion franchise before it gets off the ground (yes, even if it's Hamilton. Hopefully not, knock on wood) and is ripped from the heart and history of a region.

 

[sbkbghockey]

This is insane..

Ahhhh Federal Hockey League at its best in Flint..... oh wait, this is the OHL!? oh boy... lol


On the serious note, this kinda thing happens more than ppl realize at lower jr levels. One thing USA Hockey and Hockey Canada could do is put rules in place that either place strict limitations on when jr teams can draft and roster GMs' and Owners' sons or outright ban owners/GMs from the practice.

 

[Opinionated]

lol, well so far you are a bit off...

True enough . . . and I'm still shocked.

As I see it, the door to the barn has been opened. Next time a popular coach gets fired, there will be consideration by the players of walking out to try to get the decision reversed.

Will it be successful then . . . I hope not. It's a slippery slope that I don't think they should have started down -- regardless of how right the players were in this instance.