Flint Firebirds 2021-22 Season Thread

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Toldyaso

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Apr 13, 2015
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So clearly Sarnia has some issues if they could play last night at home, but cant get into the US to play here tonight.

Wonder why we couldn't just head there tonight to play the game?
You are right on. They have been playing all along on their side of the border. They are refusing to cross and calling it COVID protocol even though they clearly aren't under COVID protocol. Bet Kitchener crosses again for Wednesdays game. They can cross to play. They just won't. They are all ducking us hoping for some key injuries to weaken our team. League should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this to go on.
 

ohl16

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Jun 27, 2016
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If you watch in slo-mo you can see Hay is in front of Mangone, and Mangone's head actually hits Hay's butt, Hay shows no upper body movement to demonstrate that he was intentionally going in for a hit. Even after the hit Hay went to the boards to follow the puck.

It certainly didn't help that the Saginaw's announcers went on and on about how nasty it was, that he had intent to injury, it was a blind sided hit and dirty. Saginaw's announcers were out of line in my opinion to carry on the way they did and should be reprepended for it. He is a minor.

I get Hay is a tough player but all I hear about the kid off ice is that he is a great kid, at school, OHL academic award, polite and billet family says he is a all round great kid. Yes he take penalties but many of those are soft. To paint him as monster on the ice as the announcer did is uncalled for.

Especially when a few games prior Othmann was pushed into the boards layer out flat by Schulting and no suspension. WTF.

To indefinitely penalize a kid isn't right and IMO Saginaw's announcer's played it up to be much more and why Hay will suffer an extended suspension because of their words.


Yeah, I think you’re right. I can’t rewind or slow-mo live games on the CHL app/Roku set up I have until it’s a game replay. So I had to go back to rewatch it. I still don’t like the angle and he has to know that Mangone is gonna cut to center ice there but he does play the puck and make no motion to actually check Mangone. I know it sounds messed up but I’m not a fan of the automatic check to the head penalties. Often you’ll see kids lined up duck down at the last second and create that when it’s next to impossible for the hitter to correct. I also struggle with instances like....how does 6’9 Zdeno Chara physically engage 5’5 Nathan Gerbe and it’s NOT a head check? Is Gerbe just allowed to play non-check hockey? There’s kind of a gray area there for me. Anyway, I don’t know anything about Hay off ice at this point but I do know I’ve pretty much liked every bit of his game on ice so far. Every night at some point I think “I can’t believe he’s a 16yo 4th Round pick” He’s good now. He’s gonna be REALLY good in the near future. Also the Saginaw guys are the biggest homers/fans in the league and it’s not even close.
 

ohl16

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So if I understand it correctly. When the Canadian teams are returning to Canada they’ll have to quarantine for 10 days if they test positive. If that same rule applies to American teams crossing over that’s BS. If it doesn’t I’m not gonna complain much. Flint will have a bunch of home games coming up and they’re gonna get a little more rest in between those games.
 

bcspragu

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If you watch in slo-mo you can see Hay is in front of Mangone, and Mangone's head actually hits Hay's butt, Hay shows no upper body movement to demonstrate that he was intentionally going in for a hit. Even after the hit Hay went to the boards to follow the puck.

It certainly didn't help that the Saginaw's announcers went on and on about how nasty it was, that he had intent to injury, it was a blind sided hit and dirty. Saginaw's announcers were out of line in my opinion to carry on the way they did and should be reprepended for it. He is a minor.

I get Hay is a tough player but all I hear about the kid off ice is that he is a great kid, at school, OHL academic award, polite and billet family says he is a all round great kid. Yes he take penalties but many of those are soft. To paint him as monster on the ice as the announcer did is uncalled for.

Especially when a few games prior Othmann was pushed into the boards layer out flat by Schulting and no suspension. WTF.

To indefinitely penalize a kid isn't right and IMO Saginaw's announcer's played it up to be much more and why Hay will suffer an extended suspension because of their words.

If you honestly think the OHL is going to base the length of suspension on what the announcers say during the game then I think you might need rethink some things. Refs had to confirm the major penalty on the ice and they seen footage without the commentary. So they already independently confirmed that the penalty took place

I havent seen the hit, so I have no opinion on the suspension. But hits to the head are illegal in the league regardless if we agree or not or how nice the kid is on or off the ice.
 
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E27914

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If you honestly think the OHL is going to base the length of suspension on what the announcers say during the game then I think you might need rethink some things. Refs had to confirm the major penalty on the ice and they seen footage without the commentary. So they already independently confirmed that the penalty took place

I havent seen the hit, so I have no opinion on the suspension. But hits to the head are illegal in the league regardless if we agree or not or how nice the kid is on or off the ice.

I by no means believe just because he is a nice kid off the ice he should not be suspended, what I was trying to relay and maybe didn't articulate well is that he is not a kid that has intent to injury. He isn't vicious in any sense. The way the announcers described him and the hit and if you read Spirit Fan FB (which many comments were deleted) have made him sound as though he fully intended to injury Mangone. He is all in when on the ice, but not at the expense of hurting someone.

You can't tell me the league doesn't make decisions based on what announcer says or how general public perceived an action of a player. They will be replaying that video over and over again until they make their decision. Anyone listening can easily be persuaded in believing exactly what they described during the game.

You can't deny Mailloux's suspension wasn't determined by how the general public would react or respond. Geesh even Trudeau made comments about him.
 
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Toldyaso

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Not sure how reliable this is but I just ran across some talk concerning Kressler's status. It seems he had a torn UCL. Word is he is recovering well an is skating now. UCL is an elbow ligament. I'm guessing a blow to his elbow is how he injured it.
 

MJ5

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Yeah, I think you’re right. I can’t rewind or slow-mo live games on the CHL app/Roku set up I have until it’s a game replay. So I had to go back to rewatch it. I still don’t like the angle and he has to know that Mangone is gonna cut to center ice there but he does play the puck and make no motion to actually check Mangone. I know it sounds messed up but I’m not a fan of the automatic check to the head penalties. Often you’ll see kids lined up duck down at the last second and create that when it’s next to impossible for the hitter to correct. I also struggle with instances like....how does 6’9 Zdeno Chara physically engage 5’5 Nathan Gerbe and it’s NOT a head check? Is Gerbe just allowed to play non-check hockey? There’s kind of a gray area there for me. Anyway, I don’t know anything about Hay off ice at this point but I do know I’ve pretty much liked every bit of his game on ice so far. Every night at some point I think “I can’t believe he’s a 16yo 4th Round pick” He’s good now. He’s gonna be REALLY good in the near future. Also the Saginaw guys are the biggest homers/fans in the league and it’s not even close.



CsqlO1U.gif


That looks more like an unfortunate accident. Whoever Mangone got tangled up with got him in a bad and vulnerable spot. Like you said, Hay doesn't make any motion to hit him, looks like hes legit just skating through to cut him off and play the puck, his hip/butt finds Magones head.
 
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E27914

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CsqlO1U.gif


That looks more like an unfortunate accident. Whoever Mangone got tangled up with got him in a bad and vulnerable spot. Like you said, Hay doesn't make any motion to hit him, looks like hes legit just skating through to cut him off and play the puck, his hip/butt finds Magones head.


Almost looks like Bertucci has Mangone's left arm causing him loose balance and lean forward just as Hay comes to take the puck. Mangone's head hits Hay's butt.
 
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MJ5

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Not sure how reliable this is but I just ran across some talk concerning Kressler's status. It seems he had a torn UCL. Word is he is recovering well an is skating now. UCL is an elbow ligament. I'm guessing a blow to his elbow is how he injured it.

Oh shit, missed this.

Any time table on his return?
 

Toldyaso

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Oh shit, missed this.

Any time table on his return?
Hard to say. If he didn't require surgery recovery time can be anywhere from several weeks to several months depending how much range of motion he needs to recover. I'm all for don't rush it and take all the time he needs. Elbows are funny things and affect hand strength and motion in surprising ways.
 
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bcspragu

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CsqlO1U.gif


That looks more like an unfortunate accident. Whoever Mangone got tangled up with got him in a bad and vulnerable spot. Like you said, Hay doesn't make any motion to hit him, looks like hes legit just skating through to cut him off and play the puck, his hip/butt finds Magones head.

My personal opinion is that intent is impossible to determine (unless you are in Hays head) but that video shows literally a textbook definition of a blind side (rule 41b) head shot (rule 48) in the ohl rule book. 41B specifically mentions a player reaching for the puck is considered vulnerable and cant be contacted in such a manner.

What Hay should have going for him is that he wouldnt be considered a repeat offender for his suspension. I would assume his indefinite suspension is only until he can meet with the league and you will get a number (probably 5-10 imo) based on the recent Cardwell suspension.
 
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Toldyaso

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My personal opinion is that intent is impossible to determine (unless you are in Hays head) but that video shows literally a textbook definition of a blind side (rule 41b) head shot (rule 48) in the ohl rule book. 41B specifically mentions a player reaching for the puck is considered vulnerable and cant be contacted in such a manner.

What Hay should have going for him is that he wouldnt be considered a repeat offender for his suspension. I would assume his indefinite suspension is only until he can meet with the league and you will get a number (probably 5-10 imo) based on the recent Cardwell suspension.
Well Mangone wasn't reaching for the puck because it was already in the corner no where near him. That being the case it actually looks more like Mangone was trying to interfere with Hay.
 

MJ5

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I would assume his indefinite suspension is only until he can meet with the league and you will get a number (probably 5-10 imo) based on the recent Cardwell suspension.



This is just plain dirty and reckless. These hits are not near the same.
 
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OttersFan

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So clearly Sarnia has some issues if they could play last night at home, but cant get into the US to play here tonight.

Wonder why we couldn't just head there tonight to play the game?
I’ve been saying the same thing all along about teams playing one night and choosing not to come to our rinks.

It hurts the US teams.
 
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bcspragu

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Well Mangone wasn't reaching for the puck because it was already in the corner no where near him. That being the case it actually looks more like Mangone was trying to interfere with Hay.

The puck was less then a foot of of Mangones stick then Hay hits him. Hes actively reaching his stick towards the puck when Hay makes contact.

I'm sure he didnt mean to head shot him. But he did. If Mangone wasnt already tied up and falling it still would have been blind side.

I see they put 6 games on media notes. 100% fair based on the injury.
 
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Toldyaso

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The puck was less then a foot of of Mangones stick then Hay hits him. Hes actively reaching his stick towards the puck when Hay makes contact.

I'm sure he didnt mean to head shot him. But he did. If Mangone wasnt already tied up and falling it still would have been blind side.

I see they put 6 games on media notes. 100% fair based on the injury.
Your full of hot air Homer.
 
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E27914

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The puck was less then a foot of of Mangones stick then Hay hits him. Hes actively reaching his stick towards the puck when Hay makes contact.

I'm sure he didnt mean to head shot him. But he did. If Mangone wasnt already tied up and falling it still would have been blind side.

I see they put 6 games on media notes. 100% fair based on the injury.
What were Mangone's injuries?
 

bcspragu

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Your full of hot air Homer.

Not trying to start an argument, but I literally said I dont think it was intentional, just against the rules. Not sure how that makes me a homer? Stevie Wonder could see it was a headshot. I think it would be even more "homerish" to watch that clip and think nothing was wrong with it. Hockey is changing no matter what alot of us think. Zero chance the OHL as a league are going to let headshots slide anymore.

I'm sure Hays a great kid. Unfortunate things happen all the time on the ice you dont intend on happening. He will learn not to put himself in that spot in the future and be better for it.
 
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Toldyaso

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Apr 13, 2015
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Not trying to start an argument, but I literally said I dont think it was intentional, just against the rules. Not sure how that makes me a homer? Stevie Wonder could see it was a headshot. I think it would be even more "homerish" to watch that clip and think nothing was wrong with it. Hockey is changing no matter what alot of us think. Zero chance the OHL as a league are going to let headshots slide anymore.

I'm sure Hays a great kid. Unfortunate things happen all the time on the ice you dont intend on happening. He will learn not to put himself in that spot in the future and be better for it.
Really! A Stevie Wonder slur! Way to stick your foot in it. For someone not trying to start an argument you are sure going to a lot of trouble to drop in here and start an argument. Like I said hot air knucklehead.
 
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E27914

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Chris Barlas Ottawa 67's had a similar hit showed elbow and upper body movement towards the head, blind side hit, gets 4 games. could assume with that motion intent to injury. Hay gets 6 and doesn't move his upper body.
 
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Toldyaso

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Chris Barlas Ottawa 67's had a similar hit showed elbow and upper body movement towards the head, blind side hit, gets 4 games. could assume with that motion intent to injury. Hay gets 6 and doesn't move his upper body.
Exactly! Hay made no movement toward Mangone. Mangone launched himself into Hay and apparently Hay is getting suspended for not avoiding Mangone's interference. Hay was going for the puck, had a line on the Puck and never deviated from that line to hit Mangone. Mangone put himself at risk and is solely responsible for his own injury. Hay had the afterburners on. There was literally no time to react to Mangone coming into his path.
 

E27914

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Exactly! Hay made no movement toward Mangone. Mangone launched himself into Hay and apparently Hay is getting suspended for not avoiding Mangone's interference. Hay was going for the puck, had a line on the Puck and never deviated from that line to hit Mangone. Mangone put himself at risk and is solely responsible for his own injury. Hay had the afterburners on. There was literally no time to react to Mangone coming into his path.

As I said there should be some form on disapline for Hay, I don't dispute that.

Back in Dec, Hoffman (Erie) clotheslined Hay, took him down kicked him twice in the back and then crossed checked him while he down, he only got 5 games.

The league didn't seem to think that was as big of a deal. The league seems to pick and choose who to disapline.
 
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