Fleury going 1st overall in 2003

[UnderratedBrooks44]

This is a no-brainer. He has never been worth the first overall. Fleury has a career +28.12 GSAA (Goals Saved Above Average) in 691 regular season games. His best season was in 2007-08, when he had +10.58 GSAA and z-score of 1.2. That was his only time posting a z-score above 1, something that Lundqvist has done 8 times. For comparison, Carey Price had +36.70 GSAA in the 2014-15 season alone. In the playoffs, Fleury has -23.06 GSAA in 115 games. It's funny how the Penguins' two victories over two of the weakest teams to come out of the West in recent memory has changed opinions about him.

Yeah we got the easy Cups

 

[Stephen23]

If I remember correctly, the consensus top 3 prospects was Fleury, Staal and Horton. I think it was Florida who had the #1 pick but swapped with Pittsburgh as Pittsburgh, Carolina and Florida were each getting the prospect that was #1 on their board. Pittsburgh just ensured that they got their man by dealing Mikael Samuelsson to the Panthers.

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

It's funny how the Penguins' two victories over two of the weakest teams to come out of the West in recent memory has changed opinions about him.

fleury didn't even play against those teams

washington was better than any recent west team and fleury beat them

 

[1865]

3 cups. Most of anyone from that draft...

Let's be honest, a lot of goalies in his situation would have those cups too.

Yeah we got the easy Cups

It's funny, you got the hardest cup runs to come out of the East and the 'easiest' finals.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

As has been said, there was no true standout #1 pick. There were a few that could have gone 1st overall. He was just as good a choice as any one of them at the time.

Not to mention the pens desperately needed a goalie. Sure there were other choices, But maf was just as good a choice as the other goalies at the time.

It worked out well enough for the pens. Sure there were some bumps in the road (to say the least). Sure I might change a few things.

But him going 1st overall is fine.

 

[SharkInABoloTie]

Yeah, while that might be true, they aren't exactly going to publicly say, "Well we wanted one of those other guys but we'll settle for the guy we took." 2003 was a year they could say that without outright looking like a liar.

Tim Murray would like to have a word...

 

[IDuck]

hind sight is always 20/20, but that could have been a back breaker for pitt if the dont go on to draft crosby/malkin...however, ANYONE they would have drafted that year would probably look the same if they dont draft 71/87, and even if they did whoever they did draft in '03 probably wouldnt have been with the team.

 

[Ishdul]

Just wondering if anyone can shed some light on the reasons Fleury went 1st-overall in 2003?

In one of the strongest drafts ever, was Fleury really seen as a generational goalie talent? He was only the third goalie to ever go 1st overall, but there was a slew of top-5 goalie picks from 1997-2004 (Price, Luongo, Dipietro). Was this just the flavour-of-the-week? Fleury's junior stats were good but he played on a bad team in his draft year and had that horrible goal-against in the WJCs that same year. In addition to all this, the Penguins actually moved up from third to select him. Were the Hurricanes or Panthers really looking at Fleury over some of the other candidates in a draft where you practically couldn't lose?

I think there's a bit of a case where it was a lot more acceptable to draft a goalie, and I think Fleury was probably seen as the best of that group. I remember at the time he was usually ranked around 3rd (behind Staal and Horton) but because he was the only goalie he was differentiated a bit from the rest of the pack (in a year with crazy, crazy depth). It was also a year where all of the top 4 picks had a shot at the top spot. I remember the Flyers were in trade talks for Fleury before Pittsburgh stepped in, which is why the Penguins had to trade up. But yeah, I remember a lot of talk about him being seen as an all-time great goaltending prospect that continued a few years into his career.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Strong tank pick.

I bet Pittsburgh organized the lockout themselves!

 

[Regal]

It's amazing how the value of goaltending has really changed since the cap. Not only has parity in the position increased but it's becoming harder to lock up guys long term for dollars that can be spent elsewhere. At the time, Colorado, Dallas, New Jersey and Detroit were all winning cups with elite goalies like Roy, Belfour, Brodeur and Hasek, and we saw Cinderella teams like Anaheim, Washington and Carolina carried on the back of great goaltending performances. The market value of goaltenders was at one of the highest points and DiPietro and Luongo had already set the draft value for elite prospects. I think this is one thing to keep in mind when comparing it to today. I don't believe Fleury would have gone anywhere near that high today if the same draft class was entering the league.

Also, you have to wonder how good Fleury could have been if he had more support when he was younger. He was somewhat rushed into the league and didn't have a full time goalie coach until his later 20s. His athleticism was always amazing. And if he could have fine tuned parts of his game and his technique, he might have been the best of the era

 

[Michel Dion]

It's amazing how the value of goaltending has really changed since the cap. Not only has parity in the position increased but it's becoming harder to lock up guys long term for dollars that can be spent elsewhere. At the time, Colorado, Dallas, New Jersey and Detroit were all winning cups with elite goalies like Roy, Belfour, Brodeur and Hasek, and we saw Cinderella teams like Anaheim, Washington and Carolina carried on the back of great goaltending performances. The market value of goaltenders was at one of the highest points and DiPietro and Luongo had already set the draft value for elite prospects. I think this is one thing to keep in mind when comparing it to today. I don't believe Fleury would have gone anywhere near that high today if the same draft class was entering the league.

Also, you have to wonder how good Fleury could have been if he had more support when he was younger. He was somewhat rushed into the league and didn't have a full time goalie coach until his later 20s. His athleticism was always amazing. And if he could have done tuned parts of his game and his technique, he might have been the best of the era

Fleury's been among the elite of the era anyways, and easily worthy of the number one pick in 2003. And if he's able to finish on a high note with Vegas, the HOF will certainly be within reach. As for the person coming up with a negative stat, how about the fact MAF owns a superior GAA postseason average than Tony Esposito?

 

[hagelin1381]

He had great raw talent as a goalie.. Exceptional athleticism even for a goalie. They just threw him to the wolves too soon, and they didn't provide him with a real goalie coach until 10 years into his career

 

[scrubadam]

Teams at the time we much more willing to take goalies in the first round especially in the top 5 or 10. Its just not done any more.

2002 Kari Lehtonen 2nd overall
2001 Pascal Leclaire 8th, Dan Blackburn 10th
2000 Rick DiPietro 1st overall, Brent Krahn 9th overall
1999 Brian Finley 5th overall
1997 Roberto Luongo 4th overall

Really other than Luongo, none of these players have been as good as their draft position suggested they might be.

Look at the most recent draft almost all C's. Every team now wants a number 1 Center.

Back then the goalie was like the Center. Teams thought they were the most important piece.

I don't think we will ever see a goalie go number 1 again. Only way it happens is if some 7 foot goalie putting up a .980 and sub 1 GAA.

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

He had great raw talent as a goalie.. Exceptional athleticism even for a goalie. They just threw him to the wolves too soon, and they didn't provide him with a real goalie coach until 10 years into his career

i don't think this is true at all

there was never any talk of him being bad or mentally weak in the playoffs until after 2010 at the earliest

they did not throw him to the wolves too early, if anything people were furious that sent him back to the minors because he was playing so well but the pens sent him back because they didn't want to pay him

 

[Teufelsdreck]

IMO the Penguins would have won at least as many Cups if they hadn't drafted Fleury first overall in 2003.

 

[Disappointed EP40]

Throughout these years, I've noticed that he's an extremely high-character human being/teammate/mentor. Of course, no team drafts solely based on character esp. that high, but it can't be hard to notice this when we analyze/interview him.

True Heart of a Champion.
He deserved to be drafted that high.

Seriously?

"I think we should draft this guy, he's got a heart of a champion and that twinkle in his eye speaks to me."

Barf. This is not how players are drafted. He was highly touted and a is/was a good goalie during a time when goalies were still considered in the first round.

 

[Old Gregg]

i don't think this is true at all

there was never any talk of him being bad or mentally weak in the playoffs until after 2010 at the earliest

they did not throw him to the wolves too early, if anything people were furious that sent him back to the minors because he was playing so well but the pens sent him back because they didn't want to pay him

I wouldn't say throw him to the wolves but like you said.... They sent him down because of money which sucks. Maybe he meant throwing him to the wolves because they didn't give him a goalie coach until a couple years ago.... And by that point his potential was wasted

 

[Raym11]

He's had a much better career than some 1st overall pick skaters. and on par with others.


Rick Nash never really did anything or become what people thought he would. Yeah he won the Richard in one of the lowest years ever tied with others. Scored some goals but never really put up the points expected.Marginally better than Fleury overall.

Then you have Johnson, Yakupov,RNH, Mackinnon. What notable goalies were in their drafts? Genuinely curious what goalies were off the radar because of teams putting less importance on goaltending


Fleury at #1 in the 03 draft was about average, just because of how the draft actually panned out you can't say it was a wasted pick really. He's done fine, but like many other 1OA's he never really lived up to highest expectations.