Fleury appreciation thread.

[ColePens]

Fleury in regular season is awesome. However - he wrote his own fate by what he's done in the postseason. The guy melted down multiple times and even was pulled for the remainder last season for Vokoun... #29 did that to himself.

So once again - yay. He's doing well. His true test comes when the demons come. And this isn't some HF thing, HSL. I'm sure if you even ask Flower what he thinks he'd say the same. Worst goalie ever in the playoffs? Is that what his stats say? He needs to fix that himself.

So... double edged sword here. I love how he's playing, but I think we all need to wait and see if he puts a puck in his own net come playoffs.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Fleury in regular season is awesome. However - he wrote his own fate by what he's done in the postseason. The guy melted down multiple times and even was pulled for the remainder last season for Vokoun... #29 did that to himself.

So once again - yay. He's doing well. His true test comes when the demons come. And this isn't some HF thing, HSL. I'm sure if you even ask Flower what he thinks he'd say the same. Worst goalie ever in the playoffs? Is that what his stats say? He needs to fix that himself.

So... double edged sword here. I love how he's playing, but I think we all need to wait and see if he puts a puck in his own net come playoffs.

He has put up great runs of wins and decent regular season runs before. That is true. But has he ever looked this calm, consistent and generally not spastic in the net before in the regular season? Has he ever gone so long without giving up several softies? I think he has only one all year.

That is what I am talking about.

There is at least an eye test difference this year.

 

[td_ice]

Fleury in regular season is awesome. However - he wrote his own fate by what he's done in the postseason. The guy melted down multiple times and even was pulled for the remainder last season for Vokoun... #29 did that to himself.

So once again - yay. He's doing well. His true test comes when the demons come. And this isn't some HF thing, HSL. I'm sure if you even ask Flower what he thinks he'd say the same. Worst goalie ever in the playoffs? Is that what his stats say? He needs to fix that himself.

So... double edged sword here. I love how he's playing, but I think we all need to wait and see if he puts a puck in his own net come playoffs.

Exactly.

When someone has such a long history of play already, that book goes with them for better or worse. And the book, for the most part on Fleury has been good in the regular season, and largely disappointing in the playoffs. So far nothing has changed in that regard. As he has looked great so far this season, and the playoffs are a long ways away. We all hope that he can maintain his confidence that this start, (on the heels of last seasons playoffs) has surely provided. And that the changes in the offseason with "mental training", new defensive scheme, new goalie coach, will result in a strong Fleury for the playoffs. Until then, nothing he does will change the view of, "ok, but let's see what he does in the playoffs". Fair or not.


That simply is what comes with this team and the expectations of playing goalie on it, combined with Fleury's past playoff experiences.

 

[Sideline]

Fleury has been great to start the year. I'm happy he's helping the team win, but I've never been worried about him winning enough games in the regular season.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Fleury has been great to start the year. I'm happy he's helping the team win, but I've never been worried about him winning enough games in the regular season.

He hasn't been riding coattails though. A lot of times Fleury's gotten wins in spite of himself because of the team in front of him, but he's stepped up and won us some games and hasn't let in many trademark laughers we're accustomed to, even in the regular season.

He still needs to get his head out of his ass and stop playing so much behind the damn net. Stop the puck for your defenseman and get the hell back to your crease, MAF. You ****ing suck at handling the puck.

 

[wgknestrick]

I think you guys are attributing a much tighter team defense towards MAF's "improved" play.

I don't see any "uptick" in MAF's play that is showing up in the results.

5v5 SV% of MAF (NHL rankings are trimmed by minutes to try to capture starting goaltenders only)

2013 .9304 12th/31 in NHL
2012 .9296 10th/30 in NHL
2011 .9141
2010 .9268
2009 .9089

Not much difference between this year and last year. The big difference is the SA that the team is allowing at 5v5.

5v5 SA/60min
2013 24.8
2012 29.3
2011 26.9
2010 28.1


As an aside, our team's PK has steadily tanked since losing key PKers. This has a significant effect on overall SV% (MAF career 4v5 SV% is only 89.3%). The more shots you face SH, the lowers your overall SV%.

4v5 SA/60min
2013 51.9 (18th in NHL) - Lost Cooke
2012 48.0 (18th) - Lost Staal, Michalek
2011 39.9 (3rd)
2010 45.4 (3rd) - Lost Scuds/Gill
2009 46.3 (5th)

 

[Crafton]

He has put up great runs of wins and decent regular season runs before. That is true. But has he ever looked this calm, consistent and generally not spastic in the net before in the regular season? Has he ever gone so long without giving up several softies? I think he has only one all year.

That is what I am talking about.

There is at least an eye test difference this year.

i think Jaded might be on to something. i feel that the sentiment that MAF is good for 35-40 wins every season has morphed into the notion that MAF has always been stellar in the regular season. he's had brilliant stretches during the regular season but save for the year he had the ankle sprain he's never really had a full regular season of sustained stellar play, has he? his regular season even-strength save percentage over the last five years is pretty pedestrian. if he keeps his current level of play through the course of the season, it'd represent something new and something worth praise, i think. i'm not sure he'd get that praise because 1) it's the playoffs, stupid and 2) the narrative the MAF is great/stellar/speculator/awesome in the regular season has set hold.

 

[Sideline]

He hasn't been riding coattails though. A lot of times Fleury's gotten wins in spite of himself because of the team in front of him, but he's stepped up and won us some games and hasn't let in many trademark laughers we're accustomed to, even in the regular season.

He still needs to get his head out of his ass and stop playing so much behind the damn net. Stop the puck for your defenseman and get the hell back to your crease, MAF. You ****ing suck at handling the puck.

Yeah, I meant helping the team win in the positive sense; they're winning games because of him not in spite of him.

In terms of technical I do like how he's moving around less side to side and I think that's helped minimize the laughers.

Just give up on the puck handling dream.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I think you guys are attributing a much tighter team defense towards MAF's "improved" play.

I don't see any "uptick" in MAF's play that is showing up in the results.

5v5 SV% of MAF (NHL rankings are trimmed by minutes to try to capture starting goaltenders only)

2013 .9304 12th/31 in NHL
2012 .9296 10th/30 in NHL
2011 .9141
2010 .9268
2009 .9089

Not much difference between this year and last year. The big difference is the SA that the team is allowing at 5v5.

5v5 SA/60min
2013 24.8
2012 29.3
2011 26.9
2010 28.1


As an aside, our team's PK has steadily tanked since losing key PKers. This has a significant effect on overall SV% (MAF career 4v5 SV% is only 89.3%). The more shots you face SH, the lowers your overall SV%.

4v5 SA/60min
2013 51.9 (18th in NHL) - Lost Cooke
2012 48.0 (18th) - Lost Staal, Michalek
2011 39.9 (3rd)
2010 45.4 (3rd) - Lost Scuds/Gill
2009 46.3 (5th)

If Fleury can be a solid goaltender in the playoffs I don't give a damn what causes it to happen. We've got a ways to go before we find out of that happens.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Yeah, I meant helping the team win in the positive sense; they're winning games because of him not in spite of him.

In terms of technical I do like how he's moving around less side to side and I think that's helped minimize the laughers.

Just give up on the puck handling dream.

The way he tries to "help" defensemen by making a last-second pass that's off the mark, which the d-man then has to corral under pressure reminds me of Letang's passes to Malkin on the PP.

It's not as hard as these guys make it look.

 

[Sideline]

The way he tries to "help" defensemen by making a last-second pass that's off the mark and the d-man has to corral under pressure reminds me of Letang's passes to Malkin on the PP.

It's not as hard as these guys make it look.

My pet peeve is his "quick up" to a player standing still in the neutral zone on the power play. Let your flipping defense come back and breakout with speed...

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

My pet peeve is his "quick up" to a player standing still in the neutral zone on the power play. Let your flipping defense come back and breakout with speed...

Oh Christ yes.

 

[Jacob]

Fleury is playing the way he's supposed to play. Now he just needs to keep it up for another 7 months.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I remember people saying the exact same thing last year.

I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt. His regular season stats are always good, especially the win column. It's nice that he's doing well right now, but that really doesn't mean much to me. This team could make the playoffs with LaBarbera between the pipes.

Agreed 100%.

He had a very good regular season last year as well. It's Fleury's playoff performance that I'll be waiting and seeing before giving him any sort of props.

Even if he's "looking better" fundamentally or whatever right now, it's his handling of the pressure of the playoffs that I'm waiting to see. He's always been physically capable, it's the mental game. And we won't truly see if he's "changed" until the playoffs.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

What has me excited about MAF is his body language shows that he's much more composed in the net, IMO. I really hope he can do it in the POs because it's so hard to get a good starting goalie.

 

[billybudd]

nobody here disagrees. But the key for me is that he is looking better other than just on the stat sheet. He looks like he is playing smarter in the net, and from what I hear he is taking practice and stuff more seriously. There is at least a reason to hope he will do better.

There were times in the past when Fleury would have good sequences just as a result of not really being tested (see game 1 vs Islanders in last year's playoffs) and people would proclaim him Christ the Redeemer.

You're totally correct; that's not what I'm seeing this year. He's not out of position, not panicking when the puck gets deep, etc.

Keep making me eat crow, Flower...but keep making me eat crow in May and June.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Agreed 100%.

He had a very good regular season last year as well. It's Fleury's playoff performance that I'll be waiting and seeing before giving him any sort of props.

Even if he's "looking better" fundamentally or whatever right now, it's his handling of the pressure of the playoffs that I'm waiting to see. He's always been physically capable, it's the mental game. And we won't truly see if he's "changed" until the playoffs.

Just a question, which I do not know the answer to but am throwing out there. And again, I put more caveats into the OP than I would put into a 30 page marital property agreement. But a thought.

In past years even if he had good stretches, he also was good for a boneheaded 'unfundementally sound' play or two every couple of games. Maybe the way teams play in the regular season covers up for you wandering from the crease more, and the things we complain of most with Fleury. It also allows the defense to play less tight. So his "looking better" fundamentally or whatever right now' could have a little more bearing as a potential predictor of hopefully a less 'exciting' playoffs from him when he is in net. He does not need to win the Pens games, he merely has to not lose them.

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

Good job so far Flower but your real test is in the playoffs.

 

[radapex]

What has me excited about MAF is his body language shows that he's much more composed in the net, IMO. I really hope he can do it in the POs because it's so hard to get a good starting goalie.

Hard is a bit of an understatement. You've either got to draft & develop a starting goalie, get one on the decline through free agency, or drastically overpay for an unproven possible starter.

At the end of the day, though, everything Fleury's shown so far has been positive - both technically and mentally. He's not goofing around in practice, there's no more silly pre-game rituals, and he's been excellent fundamentally. I'd say even his puck handling has marginally improved, but that's still got a ways to go.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I hate the win stat for goalies.

Has anyone seen that video the Pens put up with Fleury and Bylsma during practice? http://video.penguins.nhl.com/videocenter/console?catid=1245&id=470696&lang=en

It's, uh, interesting.

 

[Crafton]

I hate the win stat for goalies.

Has anyone seen that video the Pens put up with Fleury and Bylsma during practice? http://video.penguins.nhl.com/videocenter/console?catid=1245&id=470696&lang=en

It's, uh, interesting.

they can't hire someone to clean out the back of the net? or make some kid's dream and let him do it? Bylsma is just brushing off Fleury's psychosis.

 

[ByeBye]

I hate the win stat for goalies.

Has anyone seen that video the Pens put up with Fleury and Bylsma during practice? http://video.penguins.nhl.com/videocenter/console?catid=1245&id=470696&lang=en

It's, uh, interesting.

So he's developing an aversion towards putting pucks into his own net? Good, good. That means progress.

 

[Captain Hook]

He's a good regular season goalie. The playoffs are a different story. You should trust him in the playoffs about as much as you'd trust a girlfriend that you caught banging a bunch of other guys behind your back.

 

[DanFailsma]

Does anyone think that he's played well enough to get a second look for Sochi? He wasn't invited to the camp (Holtby, Crawford, Price, Smith, and Luongo were).

 

[Dangles78]

At least his puck playing skills have improved