Proposal: Flames Shake-up

[RasmusAndersson]

1.
To Nashville:
Sean Monahan
Oliver Kylington

To CGY:
Viktor Arvidsson
2021 2nd (NSH)

2.
To DET:
Noah Hanifin

To CGY:
Anthony Mantha

3.
To St. Louis:
2021 2nd (NSH)
2021 3rd (EDM)

To CGY:
Vince Dunn

4.
To COL:
Mikael Backlund
Sam Bennett

To CGY:
2021 1st (COL)
Connor Timmins
JT Compher (cap dump)

Go hard after Danault as a replacement C this summer

Gaudreau-Danault-Arvidsson
Mantha-Lindholm-Tkachuk
Dube-Compher-Mangiapane
Lucic-______-________

Dunn-Rasmus Andersson
Valimaki-Tanev
Gio-Timmins

Click to read more...

 

[CatchyTune]

1.
To Nashville:
Sean Monahan
Oliver Kylington

To CGY:
Viktor Arvidsson
2021 2nd (NSH)

2.
To DET:
Noah Hanifin

To CGY:
Anthony Mantha

3.
To St. Louis:
2021 2nd (NSH)
2021 3rd (EDM)

To CGY:
Vince Dunn

4.
To COL:
Mikael Backlund
Sam Bennett

To CGY:
2021 1st (COL)
Connor Timmins
JT Compher (cap dump)

Go hard after Danault as a replacement C this summer

Gaudreau-Danault-Arvidsson
Mantha-Lindholm-Tkachuk
Dube-Compher-Mangiapane
Lucic-______-________

Dunn-Rasmus Andersson
Valimaki-Tanev
Gio-Timmins

One that stands out to me is the Detroit deal. I dont think Hanifin is worth Mantha.

Im surprised you would want to do the Nashville one. I think Monahan is a better player and it would make the center core pretty weak.

 

[RasmusAndersson]

One that stands out to me is the Detroit deal. I dont think Hanifin is worth Mantha.

Im surprised you would want to do the Nashville one. I think Monahan is a better player and it would make the center core pretty weak.

Very fair ya I would get if Detroit wasn’t dying for that but Mantha has been very meh this year and was scratched and so if they do move him I feel like Hanifin would be a good target with top-4 experience but still 24. He’s. been pretty good this year but just not quite good enough offensively or defensively to be a top-pairing guy

As for the Monahan deal, I get that we’d be weak at C but Arvidsson is one of my favorite targets for that RW spot across from Gaudreau. Great contract too and in his prime. Plus the Nashville 2nd is looking like it’ll be in the 30-40 range so almost a late first. Gives us a lot of ammo and saves us ~2 mil in cap. Plus with Danault looking like he’s gonna hit the market he’s 100% the guy I would target this summer to shore up the C depth. Plus we could draft some C’s with our 2 firsts

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

One that stands out to me is the Detroit deal. I dont think Hanifin is worth Mantha.

Im surprised you would want to do the Nashville one. I think Monahan is a better player and it would make the center core pretty weak.

Hanifin is having a breakout year, Flames wouldn't trade him 1 for 1 for Mantha (who btw is really struggling)
As for the Nashville trade, OP genuinely hates Monahan so that's why they did it

 

[RasmusAndersson]

Hanifin is having a breakout year, Flames wouldn't trade him 1 for 1 for Mantha (who btw is really struggling)
As for the Nashville trade, OP genuinely hates Monahan so that's why they did it

I honestly don’t hate Monahan I just think we desperately need a shake-up and he’s the most expendable of our core. Do u like Arvidsson?

As for Hanifin he definitely is having a better year (amazing first handful of games but has been just good since) but Mantha is a guy I would love to add to our top-6. Legit top-line potential w size. The thing with Hanifin is he can’t PP, can’t really PK, and while he’s good 5v5 he’s not good offensively and is not great defensively to make up for it. I really believe Dunn would be an upgrade but understand not everyone would agree

 

[Richard88]

Interesting trade idea there with Colorado, OP.

With caphits it is:

• Backlund ($5.35m x 4) + Bennett ($2.55m x 1) for Compher ($3.5m x 3) + Timmins ($925k x 1) + 1st

You need to consider the money involved there.... $7.9m to Colorado, and $4.425m to Calgary, so $3.475m net.

Obviously Colorado can't take on that much cap, especially given the term on Backlund's contract.

Colorado could add Pateryn ($1.175m caphit in the minors) to bring that difference down to $2.3m. Closer, but not quite there yet. Colorado could include Bellemare at $1.8m as well, but he's solid depth and wins 65% of his draws on the PK so that's not ideal.

The only reasonable way to bridge the gap and make this viable for Colorado would be for Calgary to retain a bit on Backlund (eg. $1m retained, so Avs would get him at $4.35m x 4).

As for the Avs forward lines they'd be something like this:

Landeskog ----- Mackinnon ------ Rantanen
Burakovsky -------- Kadri --------- Saad
Nichuskin ------- Backlund ------- Donskoi
Bennett ------- Jost/Bellemare --- Calvert

 

[glenbuis]

1.
To Nashville:
Sean Monahan
Oliver Kylington

To CGY:
Viktor Arvidsson
2021 2nd (NSH)

2.
To DET:
Noah Hanifin

To CGY:
Anthony Mantha

3.
To St. Louis:
2021 2nd (NSH)
2021 3rd (EDM)

To CGY:
Vince Dunn

4.
To COL:
Mikael Backlund
Sam Bennett

To CGY:
2021 1st (COL)
Connor Timmins
JT Compher (cap dump)

Go hard after Danault as a replacement C this summer

Gaudreau-Danault-Arvidsson
Mantha-Lindholm-Tkachuk
Dube-Compher-Mangiapane
Lucic-______-________

Dunn-Rasmus Andersson
Valimaki-Tanev
Gio-Timmins

You should really set your goals higher than danault as your number one c . Maybe something along the lines of danault extended for monohan with some other bits and pieces to even it up and for cap purposes.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I honestly don’t hate Monahan I just think we desperately need a shake-up and he’s the most expendable of our core. Do u like Arvidsson?

As for Hanifin he definitely is having a better year (amazing first handful of games but has been just good since) but Mantha is a guy I would love to add to our top-6. Legit top-line potential w size. The thing with Hanifin is he can’t PP, can’t really PK, and while he’s good 5v5 he’s not good offensively and is not great defensively to make up for it. I really believe Dunn would be an upgrade but understand not everyone would agree

I would love Arvidsson, you don't trade a top 6 center for him though. You trade pieces to add him to your top 6.

You're evaluation of Hanifin is not exactly good either, saying he can't PP make no sense since Calgary's horrible coach never gives him a chance even though he has lead the team all year in chances for. His defensive game is fine as well and has drastically improved since last year.

Also why Danault? He's not a 1C, he's roughly the same caliber player as Pageau who is an elite 3C.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

There’s a lot going on in this proposal, I’m not even gonna front I stopped reading after .2

 

[RasmusAndersson]

You should really set your goals higher than danault as your number one c . Maybe something along the lines of danault extended for monohan with some other bits and pieces to even it up and for cap purposes.

Imo Lindholm would still be the 1C but it’d be like a 1A/1B situation. Danault is being underrated a bit tho, he scores at a 2nd line rate and plays against top competition night in and night out and succeeds. Like a younger Backlund but slightly more offensive upside imo

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Would love Backlund and Bennett for that package but no cap.

 

[Richard88]

Would love Backlund and Bennett for that package but no cap.

Send them Pateryn and get $1m+ retention on Backlund and it's doable.

 

[t0nedeff]

Hanifin is having a breakout year, Flames wouldn't trade him 1 for 1 for Mantha (who btw is really struggling)
As for the Nashville trade, OP genuinely hates Monahan so that's why they did it

I'm sorry in your world 3 points in 18 games is a break out year? Lol.

 

[MisterT]

I'm sorry in your world 3 points in 18 games is a break out year? Lol.

I’m sorry that you think DEFENSEMEN are measured primarily by points. SMFH

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I'm sorry in your world 3 points in 18 games is a break out year? Lol.

Clearly you have not watched a single Flames game and have no idea what the role of a defenseman is. Hanifin has one of the worst GF vs xGF among defense league wide right now. That means he is extremely unlucky considering the chances he generates. Hanifin is also 3rd league wide among defense for GA and 11th for xGA.

 

[wasunder]

Would love Backlund and Bennett for that package but no cap.

Really? I kinda thought it was a bit lopsided in the Flames favour. I would definitely trade Bennett and Backlund for that package.

 

[t0nedeff]

Clearly you have not watched a single Flames game and have no idea what the role of a defenseman is. Hanifin has one of the worst GF vs xGF among defense league wide right now. That means he is extremely unlucky considering the chances he generates. Hanifin is also 3rd league wide among defense for GA and 11th for xGA.

I just watched back to back and Hanafin hasn't taken a step forward to make himself worth more than Mantha. Lol wake up.

 

[TheNumber4]

Not surprised to see Hanifan in a trade proposal after this weekend. He looked like hot garbage against the Oilers. No compete, looked confused, couldnt handle BoA pressure, oh and he continues to bring near zero offense.

 

[North Man]

I just watched back to back and Hanafin hasn't taken a step forward to make himself worth more than Mantha. Lol wake up.

Mantha is yet to crack 50 points, and is scoring at .5ppg pace this season. He's 26. The value may not be equal, but it's not far off.

 

[RasmusAndersson]

Mantha is yet to crack 50 points, and is scoring at .5ppg pace this season. He's 26. The value may not be equal, but it's not far off.

I mean Mantha was near PPG last year on the worst team in the whole league so I definitely would bet on his upside more than Hanifin who is literally gifted an elite partner and a sheltered role (no special teams). Having said that Mantha is struggling and I agree value isn’t very far off. Just think it’s unfair to say he’s never cracked 50 points as if his team hasn’t been absolutely garbage since he turned like 21.

 

[RasmusAndersson]

I would love Arvidsson, you don't trade a top 6 center for him though. You trade pieces to add him to your top 6.

You're evaluation of Hanifin is not exactly good either, saying he can't PP make no sense since Calgary's horrible coach never gives him a chance even though he has lead the team all year in chances for. His defensive game is fine as well and has drastically improved since last year.

Also why Danault? He's not a 1C, he's roughly the same caliber player as Pageau who is an elite 3C.

Fair that Danault isn’t a 1C, I think he’d be our two-way 2C behind Lindy (like a younger Backlund). But like come on. Same level as pageau? Did u see what mackinnon recently said about him? That’s why I want him on my team. We’re painfully easy to play against that is EXACTLY the type to go after. Ideally I’d want Lindholm him Backlund at 1/2/3 C but w Backlund about to be 32 and us looking a few years away I think we should take the picks for Backs and replace him w a younger option. I mean why would you not want a guy that one of the games truly elite players thinks is the hardest opponent to play against? I also don’t see the offensive upside in Hanifin. I’m not taking a 15 game sample of individual scoring chances with an elite partner to indicate that all of a sudden he’s a legit offensive dman. Especially w 3 points lol the guy can’t shoot for his life. As for Arvidsson I think u have to give to get but I’d only do it if we got a good C back. That one I’m iffy on tho so fair

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Fair that Danault isn’t a 1C, I think he’d be our two-way 2C behind Lindy (like a younger Backlund). But like come on. Same level as pageau? Did u see what mackinnon recently said about him? That’s why I want him on my team. We’re painfully easy to play against that is EXACTLY the type to go after. Ideally I’d want Lindholm him Backlund at 1/2/3 C but w Backlund about to be 32 and us looking a few years away I think we should take the picks for Backs and replace him w a younger option. I mean why would you not want a guy that one of the games truly elite players thinks is the hardest opponent to play against? I also don’t see the offensive upside in Hanifin. I’m not taking a 15 game sample of individual scoring chances with an elite partner to indicate that all of a sudden he’s a legit offensive dman. Especially w 3 points lol the guy can’t shoot for his life. As for Arvidsson I think u have to give to get but I’d only do it if we got a good C back. That one I’m iffy on tho so fair

Pageau is an extremely effective 2-way center, there is a reason he fits so well in the Isles system. Him and Danault are very similar players in both style and skill. However the issue is neither brings the offensive game that Monahan does. Something we clearly have lacked the last 2 games with him out. Sure Monahan has had a slow start goal scoring wise but Simon being stapled to that line for 8 games basically put him and Gaudreau at a constant 4v5.

Assuming Flames can get back on track a bit (with Ward behind the bench idk if that's possible though) I think just adding Arvidsson would really round out the top 6. I would offer something including Bennett for his change of scenery, along with some futures.
Gaudreau - Monahan - Mangiapane/Dube/Arvidsson
Tkachuk - Lindholm - Mangiapane/Dube/Arvidsson
Lucic - Backlund - Mangiapane/Dube
Nordstrom - Gawdin - Leivo

As for Hanifin, his breakout started before this season, he was our best defenseman at 5v5 in the playoffs and was much better last year as soon as he was separated from Hamonic.

On the other hand since you want to blow it up and do a massive retool Danault is not the right target. Just wait an extra year an overpay for Barkov if that's what you really want

 

[RasmusAndersson]

Pageau is an extremely effective 2-way center, there is a reason he fits so well in the Isles system. Him and Danault are very similar players in both style and skill. However the issue is neither brings the offensive game that Monahan does. Something we clearly have lacked the last 2 games with him out. Sure Monahan has had a slow start goal scoring wise but Simon being stapled to that line for 8 games basically put him and Gaudreau at a constant 4v5.

Assuming Flames can get back on track a bit (with Ward behind the bench idk if that's possible though) I think just adding Arvidsson would really round out the top 6. I would offer something including Bennett for his change of scenery, along with some futures.
Gaudreau - Monahan - Mangiapane/Dube/Arvidsson
Tkachuk - Lindholm - Mangiapane/Dube/Arvidsson
Lucic - Backlund - Mangiapane/Dube
Nordstrom - Gawdin - Leivo

As for Hanifin, his breakout started before this season, he was our best defenseman at 5v5 in the playoffs and was much better last year as soon as he was separated from Hamonic.

On the other hand since you want to blow it up and do a massive retool Danault is not the right target. Just wait an extra year an overpay for Barkov if that's what you really want

Agreed about Arvidsson. And honestly Monahans just so god damn inconsistent he easily coulda been in the lineup and the result would’ve been exactly the same. I agree we need scoring tho that’s why I’d only move Monahan if we had scoring coming back. I agree also that before we make these moves I would first fire Geoff and give this core one last chance w a legit coach and push for a guy like Arvidsson. But if we’re out of it by the deadline id get creative. The early 2nd is valuable too. Basically a legit top-6 RW in his prime and early 2nd is decent value. But I agree first I’d rather make offers for him without giving up Monahan. As for Pageau ya I agree very effective two way C but not the same level of success matched up against top lines legit every single night. Isles spread their matchups out way more than Montreal. But u clearly value Pageau highly so u see the value in these extremely effective middle-6 C’s, so why would you not want him? Barkov id obviously prefer but I really don’t believe he ever hits the market (or chooses Calgary if he does lol). I’d rather take the sure bet on a proven and really tough to play against 2C. As for Hanifin I think all we can do is agree to disagree. I admit I undervalued him before this year and that he has looked very solid w Tanev, but I still really really don’t see top-pair or special teams potential. I’ve seen more offensive upside from Juuso in 15 games than Hanifin over 2 seasons. I would keep Hanifin unless a guy like Mantha was being sold, cause like you said we desperately need the scoring more than anything and it would let us open up a protection spot for Vince Dunn who I think is unreal and so underrated. Obviously a pipe dream tho

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Agreed about Arvidsson. And honestly Monahans just so god damn inconsistent he easily coulda been in the lineup and the result would’ve been exactly the same. I agree we need scoring tho that’s why I’d only move Monahan if we had scoring coming back. I agree also that before we make these moves I would first fire Geoff and give this core one last chance w a legit coach and push for a guy like Arvidsson. But if we’re out of it by the deadline id get creative. The early 2nd is valuable too. Basically a legit top-6 RW in his prime and early 2nd is decent value. But I agree first I’d rather make offers for him without giving up Monahan. As for Pageau ya I agree very effective two way C but not the same level of success matched up against top lines legit every single night. Isles spread their matchups out way more than Montreal. But u clearly value Pageau highly so u see the value in these extremely effective middle-6 C’s, so why would you not want him? Barkov id obviously prefer but I really don’t believe he ever hits the market (or chooses Calgary if he does lol). I’d rather take the sure bet on a proven and really tough to play against 2C. As for Hanifin I think all we can do is agree to disagree. I admit I undervalued him before this year and that he has looked very solid w Tanev, but I still really really don’t see top-pair or special teams potential. I’ve seen more offensive upside from Juuso in 15 games than Hanifin over 2 seasons. I would keep Hanifin unless a guy like Mantha was being sold, cause like you said we desperately need the scoring more than anything and it would let us open up a protection spot for Vince Dunn who I think is unreal and so underrated. Obviously a pipe dream tho

Dunn's numbers are extremely misleading. He is very sheltered in St. Louis, doesnt play vs a lot of tough opposition (ie 3rd and 4th lines mostly) and high offensive zone starts. Hes not a bad player but is a lot more of a Gustafsson than a potential #1.
On the other hand, Hanifin is very similar to Ekblad. His main issue before this year was supposed low IQ plays, however that seems to have changed a lot since then. Im not saying he will be a #1 but I would definitely take him over Dunn any day of the week. I would say Hanifin's main issue now is just hitting the net more, thats not a difficult problem to solve though

 

[RasmusAndersson]

Dunn's numbers are extremely misleading. He is very sheltered in St. Louis, doesnt play vs a lot of tough opposition (ie 3rd and 4th lines mostly) and high offensive zone starts. Hes not a bad player but is a lot more of a Gustafsson than a potential #1.
On the other hand, Hanifin is very similar to Ekblad. His main issue before this year was supposed low IQ plays, however that seems to have changed a lot since then. Im not saying he will be a #1 but I would definitely take him over Dunn any day of the week. I would say Hanifin's main issue now is just hitting the net more, thats not a difficult problem to solve though

Fair. I wouldn’t even say Dunn has great numbers I just think he has some serious potential. I’m not even saying Dunn>Hanifin (even tho I would bet they both end up as 2nd pair LDs who are very good w the puck but have their flaws), but if we could turn Hanifin and a mid pick or 2 into mantha+Dunn that’s when it becomes a big win value-wise imo. For me the thing w Hanifin is that he’s really really good in transition, his skating looks unreal, but when he’s in the offensive zone he’s honestly the last dman I trust to make a play. Just bad shot and not great offensive IQ. I get his numbers this year are great and he’s been a legit top-4 dman so far, but I don’t see the sustainable offensive upside and for a guy is not great defensively (he’s fine but fed not great) I think this really limits his potential to move up beyond a 3/4 role. Dunn on the other hand also has his defensive warts for sure but the offensive upside is more apparent imo. Could end up being very similar guys, which is why if u can turn Hanifin into Mantha and replace him for just picks it’s a good move for a team in desperate need of scoring and size and RWs lol