GDT: Flames @ Ducks 8:30 PM Start, Sportsnet's Other Channel

[MM917]

This sounds more like dismissing reality than being realistic? Ruzicka has shown massive flashes of offensive talent and it’s been his consistency that’s been called in to question. He began 2020/21 with 12 points in 4 games, and 2021/22 (going off memory here) he began with 16 points in 12 games before his call up to the Flames. Offense has always been there, consistency hasn’t but that’s A LOT more of an aquirable talent than offensive instincts, especially under a coach like Sutter. Not claiming he is PPG player, but an offensively talented second liner isn’t crazy results for him.

Matt Coronato in his draft year put up 48 goals. That accomplishment has been beat once in the USHL since 2002, draft eligible or not. Last season he had almost an identical freshman year to Caufield, and was the best player on his WJC team. This year, he has the 7th best point per game in the entire NCAA while adjusting to centre. This isn’t a player every team has in their organization, and he definitely has the ceiling of a very good NHL goal scorer (30+).

Honest question, what does it take for you to consider a prospect more than run of the mill? Ruzicka only ever showed flashes in pro hockey, but Coronato has shown nothing but exceptional results with very high caliber comparables.

Coronado wasn’t the best player in his weak WJC team and nowhere close to one of the top players in the tournament. That would have been a good step towards being more than an average first round pick. Outside of that he hasn’t been impressive at any level he has played at, that would be the first step in being consider a top prospect.

Ruzicka has never had the offensive talent, hopefully this blip/luck continues but that is rarely the case with players like him.

 

[Yepthatsme]

Coronado wasn’t the best player in his weak WJC team and nowhere close to one of the top players in the tournament. That would have been a good step towards being more than an average first round pick. Outside of that he hasn’t been impressive at any level he has played at, that would be the first step in being consider a top prospect.

Ruzicka has never had the offensive talent, hopefully this blip/luck continues but that is rarely the case with players like him.

So you’re just denying facts for blanket statements that fit your narrative? Best goal scorer the USHL has seen in a decade, by almost all accounts best player on his his USA WJC team, won playoffs MVP for harvards division in the NCAA as a freshman, and has the 7th best point per game in the entire NCAA as a sophomore, and non of that is impressive at any of those levels? You say he had to practically be the best player in the tournament at the WJC, so is your opinion there’s only 2-3 good prospects league wide any given year? He’s been extraordinary everywhere he has played. What does a player have to do to be impressive by your standards, because it sounds like you’re just being dismissive to defend a bad stance you’ve taken. He’s taken almost an identical path as Caufield so far, and his stats are identical (or even better in the case of WJC performance) at every level.

Adam Ruzicka Scouting Report: 2017 NHL Draft #62

Taken by the Sarnia Sting in the second round of the 2016 CHL Import Draft, there were big expectations for Slovakian centre Adam Ruzicka.

lastwordonsports.com

Adam Ruzicka - 2017 NHL Draft Prospect Profile

A rookie for the OHL's Sarnia Sting, Adam Ruzicka could go anywhere from the mid-second to mid-third round in this year's NHL Entry Draft.

thehockeywriters.com

If you don’t believe stats I can just post scouting reports from people smarter than you or I about Ruzicka. He has ALWAYS been know for his offense (as well as his size). He’s had some great development since then which really improved his skating and consistency Which were his major criticisms, because as I’ve told you and all the scouting reports say, when he’s on he’s very talented.

 

[MM917]

So you’re just denying facts for blanket statements that fit your narrative? Best goal scorer the USHL has seen in a decade, by almost all accounts best player on his his USA WJC team, won playoffs MVP for harvards division in the NCAA as a freshman, and has the 7th best point per game in the entire NCAA as a sophomore, and non of that is impressive at any of those levels? You say he had to practically be the best player in the tournament at the WJC, so is your opinion there’s only 2-3 good prospects league wide any given year? He’s been extraordinary everywhere he has played. What does a player have to do to be impressive by your standards, because it sounds like you’re just being dismissive to defend a bad stance you’ve taken. He’s taken almost an identical path as Caufield so far, and his stats are identical (or even better in the case of WJC performance) at every level.

No I am not denying stats I am pointing out realities. He wasn't the best player on his WJHC team, if people are saying that they are wrong and it wasn't a good WJHC team to begin with so that is not an impressive accomplishment. None of the other things listed are impressive either.

I would say there are usually 3-5 top end guys from a first round and then a bunch of guys below that that aren't anything special. Doesn't mean they are bad players just that they aren't worth getting overly excited about. Some will make it, some won't.

LOL on the bad stance BS that is only because snowflake Flames fans can't handle that outside of Flames homers people don't overrate our prospects.

Adam Ruzicka Scouting Report: 2017 NHL Draft #62

Taken by the Sarnia Sting in the second round of the 2016 CHL Import Draft, there were big expectations for Slovakian centre Adam Ruzicka.

lastwordonsports.com

Adam Ruzicka - 2017 NHL Draft Prospect Profile

A rookie for the OHL's Sarnia Sting, Adam Ruzicka could go anywhere from the mid-second to mid-third round in this year's NHL Entry Draft.

thehockeywriters.com

If you don’t believe stats I can just post scouting reports from people smarter than you or I about Ruzicka. He has ALWAYS been know for his offense (as well as his size). He’s had some great development since then which really improved his skating and consistency Which were his major criticisms, because as I’ve told you and all the scouting reports say, when he’s on he’s very talented.

LOL at scouting reports from people smarter than you or I, I doubt they are but that doesn't stop them from thinking they are the smartest guys in the room. I can see his stats and all I have to say is meh.

 

[Yepthatsme]

No I am not denying stats I am pointing out realities. He wasn't the best player on his WJHC team, if people are saying that they are wrong and it wasn't a good WJHC team to begin with so that is not an impressive accomplishment. None of the other things listed are impressive either.

I would say there are usually 3-5 top end guys from a first round and then a bunch of guys below that that aren't anything special. Doesn't mean they are bad players just that they aren't worth getting overly excited about. Some will make it, some won't.

LOL on the bad stance BS that is only because snowflake Flames fans can't handle that outside of Flames homers people don't overrate our prospects.



LOL at scouting reports from people smarter than you or I, I doubt they are but that doesn't stop them from thinking they are the smartest guys in the room. I can see his stats and all I have to say is meh.

So your opinion is there’s 3-5 prospects per year league wide to get excited about, the leagues going to be bereft of talent in about 6 years at that pace. Good news is Debrincat isn’t a top 3-5 player in his draft either, so Coronato still has a great chance to become him by your wild standards with “scouting”. That was the topic that started this wild tangent.

I admire your stance of “everyone else of varied backgrounds disagrees with me, they all must be wrong” though. I bet you haven’t seen 5 games of Ruzicka play outside the NHL, and you’ve decided you know more than the people who have and the people who get paid to do so because you’ve discovered hockeyDB.

 

[MM917]

So your opinion is there’s 3-5 prospects per year league wide to get excited about, the leagues going to be bereft of talent in about 6 years at that pace. Good news is Debrincat isn’t a top 3-5 player in his draft either, so Coronato still has a great chance to become him by your wild standards with “scouting”. That was the topic that started this wild tangent.

I admire your stance of “everyone else of varied backgrounds disagrees with me, they all must be wrong” though. I bet you haven’t seen 5 games of Ruzicka play outside the NHL, and you’ve decided you know more than the people who have and the people who get paid to do so because you’ve discovered hockeyDB.

No that is not what I said. I said there are 3-5 prospects that are top level and worth getting excited about, after that it is more of a crap shoot as to who will or won't make it. That doesn't mean everyone else won't make it just that those guys are not a cut above. What started this was the idea that the Flames prospects were good because we had guys like Coronato, my point is every team has guys like Coronato so he doesn't put our prospect pool above others.

And no everybody of varied backgrounds don't disagree with me that is a flat out lie. If they did Ruzicka wouldn't have gone in the 4th, wouldn't have been in the AHL for so long, wouldn't be playing the minutes he is. If he is this sure fire offensive talent you say everybody else knows he is managers would have been offering 1st rounders + for a guy like that.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Appeal to authority is always such a lazy, unthinking argument. It is useful though, because when people default to it you can really easily gauge how much weight you should give their opinion.

 

[super6646]

Appeal to authority is always such a lazy, unthinking argument. It is useful though, because when people default to it you can really easily gauge how much weight you should give their opinion.

I agree it’s a f***ing lazy take to make on a discussion board especially when it’s not backed empirically in any other way or at least with some nuance. Saying “they know better” is just bad bad argumentation. Biggest pet peeve by far on the internet.

I remember having this argument with @Yepthatsme before and why certain appeals to authority are more problematic. Now we ended up disagreeing, but I thought about it some more because I was stuck on my opinion for a bit and felt I was coming off a bit hypocritical. When a medical expert says something and you default to their opinion, well there are peer reviewed studies that people can look to in order to back that sort of stuff up and critically engage.

For this case, how do you argue against evidence like “how managers feel/know more”.It’s a lazy take that you can’t really refute but also doesn’t add to a discussion either.