GDT: Flames at Bruins: Nov. 25 at 5:30 PM MT on SNW
- Thread starter Anglesmith
- Start date
- Status
Volica
Papa Shango
- May 15, 2012
- 21,444
- 11,117
I get being excited for Jankowski, but taking a guy who has the second best CF% and best FO% and taking our potential 1C moving forward, and pushing them to the wings seems dumb to me.
Might just be me though.
OvermanKingGainer
#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
No, you're spot on but this board has a love affair with Sean "scores Winger Goals, plays better in winger areas, doesn't skate well enough to not be a winger, backchecks like a winger, better off as a winger, " Monahan
Volica
Papa Shango
- May 15, 2012
- 21,444
- 11,117
I'm indifferent to Monahan as a centre or a winger; he just needs to be better overall. Let's not pretend Jankowski is ready for top line duties either yet however.
I don't think he'll play tomorrow; by the line rushes today. That being said if he does come in, it'll likely be for Shinkaruk; and he'll play the LW on the fourth line. There's 0% chance they take Monahan and move him to LW for Jankowski to centre him in his first game in the NHL, just zero.
MonyontheMoney
Registered User
- Apr 5, 2015
- 4,429
- 520
What exactly are "winger goals", and "winger areas"? What is "backchecking like a winger"?
And most importantly how do we know what "winger areas" Monahan is good at if he's never played wing? Seems like some ass backwards logic to me.
There really is not much a distinction, between winger goals and centre goals - wingers can score from anywhere upon entry, because, well, there aren't distinctive roles for each position in the offensive zone.
Is Monahan not usually F1 in the D zone? Seems to me if he is, he's the first guy back on the backcheck, since most teams don't give a rats ass who plays as F1 or the standard "centres" role, it's the first man back. If a winger is the first guy back, the winger plays down low.
And most importantly how do we know what "winger areas" Monahan is good at if he's never played wing? Seems like some ass backwards logic to me.
There really is not much a distinction, between winger goals and centre goals - wingers can score from anywhere upon entry, because, well, there aren't distinctive roles for each position in the offensive zone.
Is Monahan not usually F1 in the D zone? Seems to me if he is, he's the first guy back on the backcheck, since most teams don't give a rats ass who plays as F1 or the standard "centres" role, it's the first man back. If a winger is the first guy back, the winger plays down low.
Johnny Hoxville
The Return of a Legend
I'd like to see Bennett be a stud C, but it's pretty clear the coaching staff moved him to the wing to get him going and it's hard to argue with the results. This was done with Galchenyuk for a while and that might be the best plan with Sam.
And yet again, here's another example, classic. OKG thinks Monahan should play wing, yet nothing the Flames have ever said would suggest that is their plan. Monahan is a C, he will always play C. The Flames also seem committed to playing Janko at C. All comments I've heard from Janko and Conroy suggest that. They were committed to playing Granlund at C, I can't see them playing someone like Janko in anything but his natural position.
And yet again, here's another example, classic. OKG thinks Monahan should play wing, yet nothing the Flames have ever said would suggest that is their plan. Monahan is a C, he will always play C. The Flames also seem committed to playing Janko at C. All comments I've heard from Janko and Conroy suggest that. They were committed to playing Granlund at C, I can't see them playing someone like Janko in anything but his natural position.
InfinityIggy
Zagidulin's Dad
This team has a highly drafted Center who plays much better on the wing. That player is not Sean Monahan.
Calgareee
Registered User
- Jun 29, 2015
- 2,051
- 413
I'm by no means saying that I want that to be a forever thing and that Bennet can only play wing goig forward. For a game. To give Jank a shot at C with some fairly sheltered minutes and some skill and veteran savvy who can take the faceoffs if needed. I'm not expecting Jank to stay up and wouldn't be at all surprised for him to be sent back down once Versteeg is healthy.
OvermanKingGainer
#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Winger goals are quick release goals that don't require any real puck skill. Like Chiasson's goal yesterday.
Defensively, Monahan's best defense is played on the perimeter where he can keep it simple and keep his stick in place. As soon as he has responsibilities down low he becomes a liability. He is not very good defending behind the net or recovering/collapsing in the slot. Additionally, when he acquires the puck as the outlet man, he is not comfortable skating in anything resembling traffic and only has a desperate whack to resort to as a clear option, which is fine for a winger but terrible for a center.
Bachcecking in a manner where you're not timely or aware enough to successfully be the third (or god forbid second) defender up the ice. And yes some wingers backcheck like centres (Pavelski, Palat, Hossa, and our own Matthew Tkachuk).
Usually, yes. And usually, he screws up his coverage.
Incidentally that was the other player I thought was a very lacking centreman. I am not seeing anything since, that changes my opinion. Maybe he'd be a terrible winger too though but at least his ability to pressure the points wouldn't go to waste.
?
Michael Frolik?
I'm indifferent to Monahan as a centre or a winger; he just needs to be better overall. Let's not pretend Jankowski is ready for top line duties either yet however.
Monahan is our 3rd line center without Gaudreau carrying the mail. Surely Jankowski is ready for damn third line duties.
Last edited:
Mr Snrub
I like the way Snrub thinks!
- Oct 12, 2016
- 5,713
- 2,410
To be completely fair, we've never tried Monahan on the wing, and management has to at least be considering it at this point in some effort to get him going. But if it happens, it's sure as **** not going to be to accommodate Mark Jankowski playing his natural position.
Bounces R Way
Registered User
Dougie Hamilton for 1C. Everyone else to the wing forever.
Finally this team is starting to get it's legs going, might actually be a bit of a scary opponent when Gaudreau gets back and Monahan pulls his head from his ass. Hathaway has actually injected a lot of energy into the lineup, would be interesting to see their record with/without him.
Scoring is still an issue, really need Brodie and Gio to pickup their production. Doesn't need to be Hartley numbers but they have to chip in here and there.
Finally this team is starting to get it's legs going, might actually be a bit of a scary opponent when Gaudreau gets back and Monahan pulls his head from his ass. Hathaway has actually injected a lot of energy into the lineup, would be interesting to see their record with/without him.
Scoring is still an issue, really need Brodie and Gio to pickup their production. Doesn't need to be Hartley numbers but they have to chip in here and there.
Monahan doesn't really play much like a centre though, aside from being a big body and being decent on faceoffs.
He doesn't drive the play offensively, make his linemates better or even drive possession. Nor does he excel defensively; he's not at all capable of shutting down the oppositions best forwards or can even be relied on to start many shifts in the defensive zone.
He's a incredibly passive big body with mediocre skating and seems more and more like a complementary piece than a key building block. His best attributes are his shot and in previous seasons, a willingness to go to the dirty areas, specifically the front of the net. All of that seems like it'd more suited on the wing than down the middle.
And I really, really can't take appeals to authority seriously because simply put, just because the Flames decide to do something, doesn't mean it's automatically the best and only correct option. Previous Flames regimes thought Lundmark and Comeau were number centres or that Butler was a #2 defenseman. Treliving and co. being blinded by reputation or myth doesn't really change the fact that Monahan doesn't and never really has played like how you would expect a typical high end centre to. And yes, Monahan will likely remain at centre for as long as he's a Flame because that's just how things are done here, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily going to be a success either.
And anyway, Bennett was better at centre than wing. He actually looked more dominant down the middle before being benched for all the dumb penalties but that was a few weeks ago, so hard to remember I guess.
He doesn't drive the play offensively, make his linemates better or even drive possession. Nor does he excel defensively; he's not at all capable of shutting down the oppositions best forwards or can even be relied on to start many shifts in the defensive zone.
He's a incredibly passive big body with mediocre skating and seems more and more like a complementary piece than a key building block. His best attributes are his shot and in previous seasons, a willingness to go to the dirty areas, specifically the front of the net. All of that seems like it'd more suited on the wing than down the middle.
And I really, really can't take appeals to authority seriously because simply put, just because the Flames decide to do something, doesn't mean it's automatically the best and only correct option. Previous Flames regimes thought Lundmark and Comeau were number centres or that Butler was a #2 defenseman. Treliving and co. being blinded by reputation or myth doesn't really change the fact that Monahan doesn't and never really has played like how you would expect a typical high end centre to. And yes, Monahan will likely remain at centre for as long as he's a Flame because that's just how things are done here, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily going to be a success either.
And anyway, Bennett was better at centre than wing. He actually looked more dominant down the middle before being benched for all the dumb penalties but that was a few weeks ago, so hard to remember I guess.
OvermanKingGainer
#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Spot-on Calculon. In fact the Kings game where Bennett was promoted to the first line centre was based on pure merit. Yes Anze Kopitar is a tough matchup and the entire Flames team played horrible, but that was terribly impatient of them to only keep that experiment together for one game as they were hardly even the worst line (unsurprisingly that award went to Monahan's line).
Unfortunately too many of our members live in fantasyland where counting stats and Brian Burke's opinion are the only valid perspectives even if Burke is nearly a decade removed from "building" a true playoff team. The Sharks are almost the league's model organization and they have done all sorts of out there things over the years. Brent Burns at RW. Pavelski at RW. Hertl at LW. Thornton at RW. Burke wishes he had the kind of sustained success that organization has had. Never mind a Cup winner like L.A., Pittsburgh or Chicago.
Unfortunately too many of our members live in fantasyland where counting stats and Brian Burke's opinion are the only valid perspectives even if Burke is nearly a decade removed from "building" a true playoff team. The Sharks are almost the league's model organization and they have done all sorts of out there things over the years. Brent Burns at RW. Pavelski at RW. Hertl at LW. Thornton at RW. Burke wishes he had the kind of sustained success that organization has had. Never mind a Cup winner like L.A., Pittsburgh or Chicago.
MonyontheMoney
Registered User
- Apr 5, 2015
- 4,429
- 520
Let's be honest, there's no such thing as a "winger goal" or a "centre goal". I've seen plenty of centres score goals like Chiasson - very regularity if I'm being frank. For every winger goal Monahan has scored he's probably scored just as many centre goals. Thanks for the laugh though.
A liability? Maybe this year, if that, but everyone and their dog knows Monaghan is not a liability defensively. Your clearly just using his uncharacteristic start to grind your axe with Monahan even more.
I'd like to see Monahan be successful on wing breakouts with the acceleration he has, given that he'd be starting from a dead stop or even on quick transitions where he's coming back towards his own end.
Anglesmith
Setting up the play?
Stop trying to make "winger goals" happen. It's not going to happen. It's definitely a type of goal if you want to categorize types of goals, but calling it "winger goals" is misleading, because it implies that the type of goal you score is somehow a result of the position being played.
Realistically, the type of goals you are calling "winger goals" are just the type of goals scored by goal-scorers. Look around at the centres around the league who score a lot of goals. Crosby, Stamkos, McDavid, Seguin..... if you look at all their goals, you're going to see a ton of back-door tap-ins and rebounds. If you want to be the guy who scores goals, you have to be willing to not have the puck on your stick leading up to the goal, because the way defence is played these days in the NHL, you're not going to be able to consistently walk through defences and finish.
And if you're going to say that goals that do require puck skill are "centre goals," why would you make that delineation, given plenty of wingers like Patrick Kane and Jamie Benn (and one Jonathan E. Gaudreau) rack up those types of goals?
As others have said, the position you play on forward doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things once the play is in the offensive zone. What does matter is the type of player you are and your individual tendencies. I would say position makes a great deal more difference on zone exits and defensive and neutral zone play, and this is where Monahan needs to shape up.
But I don't think he is playing in a way that would be conducive to the wing either. His instincts seem fine, but he's moving really slowly and doesn't have the confidence to take the game to opponents. He looks really tentative, and that's a huge difference between him and Backlund right now, who is playing so much more confidently. Can you see Monahan, the way he is playing right now, being effective on the walls, taking outlet passes and then getting his ass moving up the wing to provide an option? The things he's struggling with right now at centre are going to hold him back regardless what position he's playing, and they're things he's been good at in past seasons, although I realize you disagree with this.
OvermanKingGainer
#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Okay, I will concede that "winger goals" was a lazy statement. I am not "trying to make winger goals happen".
However nothing about Monahan's defensive game is very different from the past three years. It is simply being magnified because his line is not outscoring its problems.
However nothing about Monahan's defensive game is very different from the past three years. It is simply being magnified because his line is not outscoring its problems.
Mr Snrub
I like the way Snrub thinks!
- Oct 12, 2016
- 5,713
- 2,410
I can't wait to see Monahan's post-game interview after the Flames sweep the Pens in the SCF:
"Well, it all started when Glen Gulutzan decided I should play wing. That night I went home and refreshed NHL.com and I had 90pts. Acquiring Bieksa at the trade deadline didn't hurt either."
"Well, it all started when Glen Gulutzan decided I should play wing. That night I went home and refreshed NHL.com and I had 90pts. Acquiring Bieksa at the trade deadline didn't hurt either."
- Apr 27, 2005
- 33,710
- 30,016
Monahan has the toolset to be a very effective NHL'er, but there are a few things that he really struggles with which make me think C is not the best position for him.
- He's a sub par skater, especially in comparison to the rest of the youth in the league.
- As a result of that, he's a poor puck carrier.
- He's a poor distributor of the puck off the rush.
- He's extremely weak on his feet and gets knocked off the puck with ease. This also hurts him defensively.
- He's poor on the back check, again partly due to his lack of footspeed.
Frankly, he's just not a dynamic enough player to be an effective offensive centerman at this level. As the center, you have to be able to compliment the pace of play, and he's unable to do that with highly skilled players like Gaudreau.
Luckily for him, he's got some of the best finishing ability/instincts around the net/high slot in the league. And he can make some pretty good passes in the offensive half zone.
I'd be interested in seeing them give him a chance on his off side at RW. Allows for him to get off one timers and get his stick to the middle of the ice on wrist shots.
Gaudreau - Bennett - Monahan
Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik
Ferland - Jankowski - Brouwer
That top 9 looks much stronger IMO.
- He's a sub par skater, especially in comparison to the rest of the youth in the league.
- As a result of that, he's a poor puck carrier.
- He's a poor distributor of the puck off the rush.
- He's extremely weak on his feet and gets knocked off the puck with ease. This also hurts him defensively.
- He's poor on the back check, again partly due to his lack of footspeed.
Frankly, he's just not a dynamic enough player to be an effective offensive centerman at this level. As the center, you have to be able to compliment the pace of play, and he's unable to do that with highly skilled players like Gaudreau.
Luckily for him, he's got some of the best finishing ability/instincts around the net/high slot in the league. And he can make some pretty good passes in the offensive half zone.
I'd be interested in seeing them give him a chance on his off side at RW. Allows for him to get off one timers and get his stick to the middle of the ice on wrist shots.
Gaudreau - Bennett - Monahan
Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik
Ferland - Jankowski - Brouwer
That top 9 looks much stronger IMO.
Last edited:
Tkachuk Norris
Registered User
- Jun 22, 2012
- 15,670
- 6,783
Gaudreau and Monahan don't work together? Lol what? They were the 5th or 6th highest scoring pair in the NHL last year. Every other pairing that finished above them was 10-15 years older.... But sure, they suck together 
But sure they don't work. Monahan had a 52% 5 on 5 GF while being the focus of the other teams defence.
Very few 21 year old centres finish with positive 5 on 5 goals for, 60 plus points while facing the hardest defensive match ups in the league.
Bennett, Jankowski, maybe, maybe those guys become #1 Cs. But until that time we have to go with the inconsistent guy that looked like a third line Center the first 25 games last year too. But he also looks like an elite #1C when he's on his game, ie down the stretch last year.
But sure they don't work. Monahan had a 52% 5 on 5 GF while being the focus of the other teams defence.
Very few 21 year old centres finish with positive 5 on 5 goals for, 60 plus points while facing the hardest defensive match ups in the league.
Bennett, Jankowski, maybe, maybe those guys become #1 Cs. But until that time we have to go with the inconsistent guy that looked like a third line Center the first 25 games last year too. But he also looks like an elite #1C when he's on his game, ie down the stretch last year.
Last edited:
Johnny GODreau
Boom
- Aug 21, 2014
- 8,582
- 22
This game was btw really painful to watch for me. I accidentally saw a "Bruins score from center ice" post before starting to watch the game few hours after it had ended. So all the time I hoped Flames would have at least two goal lead, since the Bruins are going score one more anyway. Maybe two minutes before the of regulation it was really painful but I though at least the Flames get a point, and hopefully OT win.
Of course it had been Burns scoring from center ice
Of course it had been Burns scoring from center ice
- Status
