Finalized Ratings coming soon...

[SPG]

Thanks to the hard work put in by Brock, Tony, and Nick, our "finalized" ratings will be released in the coming days. Challenges are still to come (details to be announced soon), but the main trouble areas of the DVHL rating set have been reviewed/revised and are ready to be keyed into the sim.

I started keying in the ratings last night and I hope to get a large chunk of it done tonight. The Atlantic Division (though not uploaded yet) is finished and my hope is to get the rest of the Eastern Conference and maybe some of the Western Conference updated tonight.

When those are finished, there are a few loose ends to be tied, but we should be close to getting underway:

- Challenges
- Endorsements
- Remainder of contracts, and moving of RFA "holdouts" to prospect lists

...I think that might be it, but something may have slipped my mind. Our start date really depends how quickly we can get those loose ends finished up. The ratings should be done by the end of the weekend.

As always, keep checking your rosters and make sure there are no errors. Catching those are a GM's responsibility.

Click to read more...

 

[Ohio Jones]

you da man!

 

[MatthewFlames]

you da man!

 

[SPG]

Update...

The Eastern Conference and the Central Division are done. Hopefully I'll get to the Northwest and Pacific on Saturday. The files have been uploaded.

Keep in mind that goalie ratings may still be adjusted and challenges are also coming up soon.

 

[Chuzwazza]

Thanks to everyone for doing the re-rates and setting it up...although I think i'm now going to challenge more DF ratings that I wa originally...just my luck!

 

[SPG]

All teams have now been updated. There's still some discussion on whether or not goalie ratings will be looked at. Challenges coming soon...

Bruins
Senators
Capitals

All still need more players or position changes to meet the minumum roster requirements.

 

[Brock]

All teams have now been updated. There's still some discussion on whether or not goalie ratings will be looked at. Challenges coming soon...

Great job getting those up Sean!

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

All teams have now been updated. There's still some discussion on whether or not goalie ratings will be looked at. Challenges coming soon...

Bruins
Senators
Capitals

All still need more players or position changes to meet the minumum roster requirements.

Some of these have offers into Reggie that might help reduce or eliminate the roster problem. Reggie hoping to hit the office some time this week.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Thanks for the hard work!

Wow...those forwards sure took a beating defensively.

 

[Ville Isopaa]

Thanks for the hard work!

Wow...those forwards sure took a beating defensively.

Yeah, great work, thank!
But wow, those forwards took a serious beating.. Or, almost everyone of them. Somehow Daniel Alfredsson is rated at 80 in DF. Is this a type-o?
That makes him rank tied for 4th in the league with PÃ¥hlsson, Madden and Draper and after only Brindy, Pandolfo and Lehtinen, which can't be right.

 

[PasiK]

Yeah, great work, thank!
But wow, those forwards took a serious beating.. Or, almost everyone of them. Somehow Daniel Alfredsson is rated at 80 in DF. Is this a type-o?
That makes him rank tied for 4th in the league with PÃ¥hlsson, Madden and Draper and after only Brindy, Pandolfo and Lehtinen, which can't be right.

I agree here with Ville, even Alfie is good defensive player, DF80 is bit too much.

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

With respect to Alfredsson's defensive rating, given I have him on my roster, I'll come to his 'defence'. While I had no hand in his defensive rating, the DVHL actually had him as the #2 ranked defensive forward I believe after Brind'Amour (and I played nop part in his DEF ratings during re-rates given he was my player). Aside from being the best two-way player on one of the best defensive teams in the league, Alfie was 2nd in the league in +/- last season while also being one of the leaders in short handed scoring in both the regular season and post-season. There was no other player in the league that combined such a dominant +/- rating with so many short-handed points, so I suspect this combination led to his defensive rating being amongst the top 2 in the original ratings. But I would also submit, there is no 'winger' I'd rather have on the ice protecting a one goal lead late in the game than Alfredsson. His reputation has really just begun to take hold as a defensive player in the last two seasons and you really can't argue with his unmatched combo of plus/minus and short-handed success last year.

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

As an aside, i really am looking forward to seeing how my top penalty killing unit fairs this season, with Brind'Amour and Alfredsson at forward and Pronger and Chara on defence, all of whom are close to the top defensive rated players at their positions.

 

[Toronto_AGM_Adil]

With respect to Alfredsson's defensive rating, given I have him on my roster, I'll come to his 'defence'. While I had no hand in his defensive rating, the DVHL actually had him as the #2 ranked defensive forward I believe after Brind'Amour (and I played nop part in his DEF ratings during re-rates given he was my player). Aside from being the best two-way player on one of the best defensive teams in the league, Alfie was 2nd in the league in +/- last season while also being one of the leaders in short handed scoring in both the regular season and post-season. There was no other player in the league that combined such a dominant +/- rating with so many short-handed points, so I suspect this combination led to his defensive rating being amongst the top 2 in the original ratings. But I would also submit, there is no 'winger' I'd rather have on the ice protecting a one goal lead late in the game than Alfredsson. His reputation has really just begun to take hold as a defensive player in the last two seasons and you really can't argue with his unmatched combo of plus/minus and short-handed success last year.

I'm not so sure +/- is a good indicator of defensive ratings... especially in the case of a guy like Alfredson who already has such a high point production. Some other stats to think about is the fact that Alfie has the highest number of giveaways in Ottawa. Also, you could take a look at +/- with ES points deducted... in that case alfredson would have a +/- of -16 while Chris Kelly would have a +/- of -3... that's probably why Kelly gets more PK time then Alfredson. Now Kelly gets a DF of 76 while Alfie gets 80?

edit, forgot to bring up blocked shots... Kelly had 49 more then Alfredson who had 37.

 

[Brock]

With respect to Alfredsson's defensive rating, given I have him on my roster, I'll come to his 'defence'. While I had no hand in his defensive rating, the DVHL actually had him as the #2 ranked defensive forward I believe after Brind'Amour (and I played nop part in his DEF ratings during re-rates given he was my player). Aside from being the best two-way player on one of the best defensive teams in the league, Alfie was 2nd in the league in +/- last season while also being one of the leaders in short handed scoring in both the regular season and post-season. There was no other player in the league that combined such a dominant +/- rating with so many short-handed points, so I suspect this combination led to his defensive rating being amongst the top 2 in the original ratings. But I would also submit, there is no 'winger' I'd rather have on the ice protecting a one goal lead late in the game than Alfredsson. His reputation has really just begun to take hold as a defensive player in the last two seasons and you really can't argue with his unmatched combo of plus/minus and short-handed success last year.

I did have a hand in Alfie's DF rating, and the reasons Nick has outlined are pretty much why Alfie's DF is high. The combination of the original DVHL ranking, with his +/-, his reputation for being such an excellent defensive player and the type of player youd want on the ice in the dying seconds, his PK time, his shorthanded scoring, and his DF rating in other leagues, and you've got a player which has to be rated high in DF. While it's nice to do rating's subjectively, there has to be a level of objectivity to them as well, to keep them grounded, otherwise it's just going to be one man's opinion.

And the reason the forward DF's took a hit, IMO, is that the DF ratings for forwards have always been way to high. And they were again this year. The spread was way to narrow, with the simply average DF forward being rated the same as an average DF defenseman. Which is completely asanine IMO. There is no way an average defensive forward should have an equal DF rating to someone whos playing defense every night as his position. So we increased the spread and brought distance between the elite defensive forwards, who can take claim to being relatively close to being as good as actual positioned defenders (such as your Pandolfo's, your Pahlsson's), and just your average forward who may get the odd shift on the PK.

 

[PasiK]

Alfie was 2nd in the league in +/- last season while also being one of the leaders in short handed scoring in both the regular season and post-season. There was no other player in the league that combined such a dominant +/- rating with so many short-handed points, so I suspect this combination led to his defensive rating being amongst the top 2 in the original ratings.

It is easy to have good +/- rating when whole line is scoring a lot (spezza-Heatley-Alfredsson). Vanek lead the +/- stats of NHL forwards and his line also was very lethal.

Steve Sullivan +/- was +16, not bad either, played a lot in PK units and scored 3+1 short-handed points, Alfredsson scored 2+2 in regular season, NHL.
Steve Sullivan SH TOI/Game 2:55 and Alfredsson same 2:12!

Sullivan DF66
Alfredsson DF80

Still seems that +/- means too much

....

but thats why we have our challenges I would have used that challenge to somewhere else than Sullivan though

 

[Ville Isopaa]

Wasn't the whole point of not using the DVHL ratings for DF to get away from ratings based almost completely on the +/- stat? Now it seems like the +/- has been applied to some players as a big bonus and the PK time that some players have played have counted for much more than for others.

As to Alfie's PK performance, he was:
- tied for 25th to 63rd in the league with his 2 goals
- tied for places 10th to 39th with his 2 assists
- tied for 15th 34th in the league with his 4 points
- his 2.12 of PK time ranks him 4th in Ottawa and 116th in the league among forwards.

Compare that with the Tampa duo of St.Louis and Lecavalier who had 11 and 9 SH points. they got 4th and 6th most SH time in Tampa with 1.72 and 1.52. St.Louis was a +7 and Lecavalier a +2, top2 and only Tampa forwards with a positive +/-. They are rated 66 and 64 in DF.

And if anyone is intrested, Kristian Huselius who has a 58 in DF also had 2+2 in SH points and got 0.74 mins of PK time/game. He ranked 15th in the league with a +/- of 21. That's how much SH points and +/- counts for most guys..

ps. I'm not saying that Huselius should be rated any higher, but given how Alfie rated, I guess Huselius could rate pretty close to him.

 

[Toronto_AGM_Adil]

Wasn't the whole point of not using the DVHL ratings for DF to get away from ratings based almost completely on the +/- stat?

To be fair to the admin team, they've put in a lot of work into these rankings and I'm really happy that they're around to put that type of work into this league.

ps. I'm not saying that Huselius should be rated any higher, but given how Alfie rated, I guess Huselius could rate pretty close to him.

Alredson is known as a two-way forward while Huselius is definitly not two-way.

That being said, I still agree with you Ville that Alfie's DF is a bit high even though he is known as a two way forward. I guess that's the problem with doing these rankings based on opinion, since no one can be completely objective. That's why I've always been pushing for the use of statistics...

 

[Ville Isopaa]

And the reason the forward DF's took a hit, IMO, is that the DF ratings for forwards have always been way to high. And they were again this year. The spread was way to narrow, with the simply average DF forward being rated the same as an average DF defenseman. Which is completely asanine IMO. There is no way an average defensive forward should have an equal DF rating to someone whos playing defense every night as his position. So we increased the spread and brought distance between the elite defensive forwards, who can take claim to being relatively close to being as good as actual positioned defenders (such as your Pandolfo's, your Pahlsson's), and just your average forward who may get the odd shift on the PK.

I do like the wider spread of the ratings, as it's been too much everybody is in the high 60's or low 70's. It's good to get players in the 50's and 80's, heck I'd be fine with an even bigger spread. However, I did a lot of FHL ratings for two other leagues for years before and one thing I noticed early on was that the ratings don't weigh in the same on the Overall rating for defensemen and forwards. For instance an added point for a forward in SC or PA increases his OV more than for a defenseman. It's the opposite in DF. I don't remember the exact ratios, but for instance with ratings like DU, DI, LD and EX the difference from 25 to 99 is 1 point in the OV. Others count much more. So to just lower the DF of forwards so that they are lower than the ones for defensemen, leads to the forwards being even lower than the already existing ratio that the sim alrerady uses when it compares forward and defenseman ratings.

 

[Fan.At]

I do like the wider spread of the ratings, as it's been too much everybody is in the high 60's or low 70's. It's good to get players in the 50's and 80's, heck I'd be fine with an even bigger spread. However, I did a lot of FHL ratings for two other leagues for years before and one thing I noticed early on was that the ratings don't weigh in the same on the Overall rating for defensemen and forwards. For instance an added point for a forward in SC or PA increases his OV more than for a defenseman. It's the opposite in DF. I don't remember the exact ratios, but for instance with ratings like DU, DI, LD and EX the difference from 25 to 99 is 1 point in the OV. Others count much more. So to just lower the DF of forwards so that they are lower than the ones for defensemen, leads to the forwards being even lower than the already existing ratio that the sim alrerady uses when it compares forward and defenseman ratings.

that sounds like a really good point to me

 

[SPG]

Folks, arguing ratings now is a moot point. Bring up these ideas in your challenges.

 

[SPG]

but thats why we have our challenges I would have used that challenge to somewhere else than Sullivan though

There should be plenty of challenges where you can use one on Sullivan and have plently other challanges available.

 

[Ville Isopaa]

To be fair to the admin team, they've put in a lot of work into these rankings and I'm really happy that they're around to put that type of work into this league.

Alredson is known as a two-way forward while Huselius is definitly not two-way.

That being said, I still agree with you Ville that Alfie's DF is a bit high even though he is known as a two way forward. I guess that's the problem with doing these rankings based on opinion, since no one can be completely objective. That's why I've always been pushing for the use of statistics...

Yes, I agree. As I said, Huselius isn't in the class of Alfie, just that just by looking at his stats, he would not be 22 points behind Alfie in DF. And I do appreciate the work that is put down to make things work, I just think it would be good to know what the base is for the ratings in good time before we have to make the challenges.

There should be plenty of challenges where you can use one on Sullivan and have plently other challanges available.

If Alfie's rating is really based on +/-, SH-points and SH-time, I guess every team could make an easy claim to get atleast 3-4 guys in the 80's in DF.

 

[SPG]

Yes, I agree. As I said, Huselius isn't in the class of Alfie, just that just by looking at his stats, he would not be 22 points behind Alfie in DF. And I do appreciate the work that is put down to make things work, I just think it would be good to know what the base is for the ratings in good time before we have to make the challenges.



If Alfie's rating is really based on +/-, SH-points and SH-time, I guess every team could make an easy claim to get atleast 3-4 guys in the 80's in DF.

The ratings are fine. You could find a few ratings in EVERY set of FHL ratings to single out and argue. Thats just the way these things work and have always worked. And if you have such a problem with how these turned out, where were you when we needed the help to get these out?

It's just annoying as hell to me after spending SEVERAL hours keying these into the sim these last couple days to have the whiners come out of the woodwork. Not to mention the hours put in by Tony, Brock, and Nick.

 

[MatthewFlames]

I had always thought that the DVHL ratings for DF were low - obviously they were high this year... Seems to me all teams were affected in the same way.

Thanks boys for all the great work!