thome_26 said:
If Messier was put on a typical average team the those years that was a bubble team he would played a MASSIVE part in getting them into the playoffs. However, when you're 40, and you're surounded by 33 year old players that picked money over hockey it makes it pretty damned tough. Yzerman on the Rangers wouldn't have got them to the playoffs. Same with Francis, Stevens, etc.
Don't give me the BS that Messier has played on horrid teams for the past 7 years, he was a big contributer, to those teams not making the playoffs.
Messier was surrounded with some very real talent in Vancouver: Bure, Mogilny, Naslund, Bertuzzi, Ohlund, Linden, McCabe, Lumme, Scatchard, Aucoin, Morrison, Cassels, Jovanovski.
Messier leaves and they make they've made the playoffs every year since. His Canucks team had talent.
thome_26 said:
As said before, none of these guys have had comparable success. And, no, Messier was not some ride-along #2 to Gretzky. It was the Mooses dressing room. He's the one that said something when it needed to be said. Gretz was one of those lead by example guys - which, IMO, isn't what this thread is looking for, otherwise we'd just be having a top player of all time discussion.
It doesn't matter how you lead, just that you do it. Leadership doesn't have to be yelling and screaming. Leadership is being a professional, setting the right example, and by
leading the team on the ice.
Messier was more vocal than Gretzky in the locker room, but it was still Gretzky's team without a doubt.
thome_26 said:
Cold day in Hell Yzerman or Francis would absolutely murder somebody with an elbow putting the fear of god into the opposition. Cold day in Hell does Stevens play as one of the top 3-4 offensive players in the game.
when was the last time Messier put the fear of god into an opponent ??? 7 years, 10 years ago ???
The difference is that as Yzerman and Stevens got older, they changed their games. While not the offensive players they once were, they changed so that they could still be very important players on a winning hockey team.
Messier has never changed his game. He's still offense first and to stubborn to change.