Player Discussion Filip Chytil: Part II (Chytil to miss rest of 2023-24 Season)

Edge

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68 players scored 60 or more points last year.

68 players scored 60 or more points the year before.

39 players scored 60 or more points the year before that.

40 players scored 60 or more points the year before that.

50 players scored 60 or more points the year before that.

Over the last 5 years, 1/3 or more of the top line players do not meet your criteria for being a top line player.

Which probably means the criteria needs to be reevaluated.

I agree.

I view players like I do a graduating class from a top university - not everyone can be at the top of the class.

But even if you graduate middle of the pack, or even the lower 1/3 of the class at Harvard, you still graduated from Harvard.

At some point, not every first line player is going to be a franchise player, or even in the top half of first line players. Additionally, there may be some teams that have first line players.

But I think we often view the benchmark for first line players as being at or near the top of that designation. So yes, while an elite first line LW is going to score 30 goals and 80 points, that's not the benchmark for a first line LW.

I think we also have to take into account that in today's NHL, a lot of offense tends to congregate on a comparably smaller group of teams.

A lot of teams are going to have 20 goal, 50 point players playing on their top line. And a select few are going to have 60+ point players playing on their second.
 
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brakeyawself

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I agree to an extent. I like the idea of rolling 3 'top 6 lines' instead of a clear 1-2-3-4. And I am also one who tends to view exceptional results (as far as their statistics measure) as a good reason to keep a player in the position and role that they're excelling within, especially if that player is 20 and the results are coming in such a small chunk of the season.

Strome has been good with Panarin. He hasn't 'hurt' us as 2C by any means. So, I'm of the camp that would say, let Chytil play in the role that's working right now. Keep feeding him the minutes he's improving within. Let him continue to grow and stabalize and hope that he can continue to dominate where he is, and by the deadline, when Strome might be gone -- but certainly all kinds of roster spots will be up in the air -- consider giving him a bigger slice of the pie.

just my opinion tho

I think that’s the most pragmatic way to view it. With these prospects, especially foreign ones, building confidence and sticking with what’s working seems like the best route. All though, I think Chytil could grow with more responsibility, too many variables for anyone outside the team to know if that would benefit him specifically.

The way Strome is playing I can’t see moving him down the lineup. We might have really found somthing here with that partnership. Not to mention, Strome has always been capable of this level of play. Was kind of surprised to see him floundering around the nhl for the last few seasons after starting his nhl career on a high note.

If this continues rest of season, I’m not sure it’d be wise to move Strome. He probably does represent some risk longer term considering his shaky history, but he’s clearly talented enough to warrant the opportunity. It might be in the Rangers benefit to hold on to him. As he can also play on the wing, like Chytil, they could probably use them both in unique ways. Kind of like how the Nucks use Miller, or the Yotes use Dvorak and Schmaltz. You could play them both on the same line and they could rotate roles as needed each game. Both could take face offs in different areas etc..

Speaking of Miller, I was awfully upset when he got traded. I didn’t think the return was enough and I’ve always thought he had this level of talent in him. We saw it in flashes. Imagine this team if we still had Miller? I just hope the same thing doesn’t happen with Strome, Lias, Kravtsov or Chytil. Trading them away that is, only to see them blow up with a different team. Not that I think we would trade Chytil at all or Kravtsov right now (hope we didn’t screw up with him going back home). But could see that happening if we moved Lias or Strome. Could probably add Lemieux to that also.
 
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nyr2k2

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There's a lot of parity in the league when you look at the talent on each roster. Probably 15-20 teams that aren't separated my much. A handful of teams that are really head-and-shoulders above the rest. Then a handful of teams totally bereft of talent. As a result, you find a few teams with a high concentration of players with gaudy offensive numbers, a whole bunch of teams with "average" first line players and "average" second line players, and then some teams that have guys on their first line who would be on the third line of a good team. And then random outliers in each group.

(Before anyone challenges me to name all these teams, no. These are just generalizations. :laugh:)
 
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duhmetreE

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I like most of his game so far...

His game-sense is still in question, to me at least. He always suffocates the puck-carrier and rarely finds open ice. His stickhandling/1on1 skill is still average to below average. Skating around a defender is his best 'move', unfortunately he still tries to go through them too often.

He can still grow/mature but that's the limiting factor at the moment imo.
 
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HockeyBasedNYC

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I've been very impressed with Chytil's game since he was sent down. Aside from the point production which is always needed from a player in his role, his doggedness on the puck in all zones defensively has been very consistent.
 
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True Blue

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Speaking of Miller, I was awfully upset when he got traded. I didn’t think the return was enough and I’ve always thought he had this level of talent in him. We saw it in flashes. Imagine this team if we still had Miller? I just hope the same thing doesn’t happen with Strome, Lias, Kravtsov or Chytil. Trading them away that is, only to see them blow up with a different team. Not that I think we would trade Chytil at all or Kravtsov right now (hope we didn’t screw up with him going back home). But could see that happening if we moved Lias or Strome. Could probably add Lemieux to that also.
What Miller is doing right now, looks to be an aberration to what he has been doing in prior years. And Miller did not get traded by himself. He was a part of the deal that sent McD away. If you believe Gorton did not get enough on the whole deal, fine. But you cannot view Miller as a separate move.

Some prospects are not going to pan out. And then some are going to get traded. Both are inevitable. The key is draft and obtain the ones that you want to be a part of the core. Chytil and Lemieux fit the bill. It could well be that Andersson gets moved. I do not want that, but it will be hardly what makes or breaks the rebuild.

The Rangers did not screw up with Kravstov. He is managing to do all of that on his own. But him going back is not a big deal. He is hardly beyond salvage.

As for Strome, I think that just like with Kreider, it comes down to how much does he value the one franchise in which he has found trust and comfort of the team and coaching staff. And how he continues to perform for the next several months. There is value in someone like him in the middle 6 and with the ability to move from center to wing. At some point, he will need to decide if he wants his agent to contact Gorton to discuss what happens in the future. But if someone comes along with what Gorton perceives as a trade he cannot say no to, then he will be gone.
 

brakeyawself

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What Miller is doing right now, looks to be an aberration to what he has been doing in prior years. And Miller did not get traded by himself. He was a part of the deal that sent McD away. If you believe Gorton did not get enough on the whole deal, fine. But you cannot view Miller as a separate move.

Some prospects are not going to pan out. And then some are going to get traded. Both are inevitable. The key is draft and obtain the ones that you want to be a part of the core. Chytil and Lemieux fit the bill. It could well be that Andersson gets moved. I do not want that, but it will be hardly what makes or breaks the rebuild.

The Rangers did not screw up with Kravstov. He is managing to do all of that on his own. But him going back is not a big deal. He is hardly beyond salvage.

As for Strome, I think that just like with Kreider, it comes down to how much does he value the one franchise in which he has found trust and comfort of the team and coaching staff. And how he continues to perform for the next several months. There is value in someone like him in the middle 6 and with the ability to move from center to wing. At some point, he will need to decide if he wants his agent to contact Gorton to discuss what happens in the future. But if someone comes along with what Gorton perceives as a trade he cannot say no to, then he will be gone.

It’s only an aberration if he doesn’t continue to produce at a higher level in Vancouver. With the players they have there and how Miller is being used, there’s no reason to think he won’t continue to be highly productive there. Perhaps not always at the pace he’s on now, but 70 points+ seems completely plausible given his current situation. Dylan Strome, Elias Lindholm, Marchesault and many others have shown that sometimes the right fit makes worlds of difference. He was producing well in TB in spurts, but he never really got acclimated there and they perpetually moved him around the lineup. He never got a chance to stick in the top 6. To that end, I think he was misused to an extent both in TB and NY. He was fairly productive with the Rangers, but didn’t have tha consistent talent around him that he has in Van. Plus, as far as I can remember, he got moved around a lot in NY also. But he put up some very good numbers with the Rangers relative to how the team was performing back then.

Well, I absolutely don’t think the Rangers got enough in return in the entire deal, including McD. But I also think that trade devalued Miller. It probably devalued both McD and Miller as far as I can tell. I said as much the day the trade broke in news and it seems even more true today. There were numerous other forwards the Rangers should have traded instead at the time. Not that TB would have wanted them, but then maybe that deal would have been an altered version or a hundred other possibilities. Not that he would be playing the pace he is right now had he stayed, but I always believed he had the potential to be a 65+ point guy given the right circumstances and a bit more consistency and talent in his linemates.

In that sense I always thought Miller was undervalued in NY and I’ve always thought he had much more potential in him. We are seeing that in perhaps what are ideal conditions for him. And it’s not just his offense. It’s his entire game, perhaps minus decision making. Although he seems to have improved in that regard as well.

Well, there is no way of knowing yet if the Rangers screwed up regarding Kravtsov. He literally just left. He hasn’t really had the opportunity to succeed or fail yet. Hence the “hope” that it wasn’t a bad move. He definitely wasn’t having a great time in his brief experience here. But it’s not yet even a situation that requires “salvaging” as there has been no time to determine such an outcome. I make no such judgements regarding him at the moment.

However, I do regarding Miller. I feel similarly about Chytil as I did Miller. Except I think Chytil has even greater potential ultimately. A trade would have to lean heavily in NYs favor for me to even consider moving him.

As opposed to say Lias. Its definitely way too soon to make any declarations of success or failure. However, if they, for whatever reason, decided to trade him tomorrow for another prospect that perhaps needs a change of scenery (Casey Mittlstadt could probably use a fresh start) or some relatively high draft pick, I don’t think I’d be too upset. Obviously CM would cost more than just Lias though.
 
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True Blue

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It’s only an aberration if he doesn’t continue to produce at a higher level in Vancouver. With the players they have there and how Miller is being used, there’s no reason to think he won’t continue to be highly productive there. Perhaps not always at the pace he’s on now, but 70 points+ seems completely plausible given his current situation.
Certainly possible, but it WOULD be an aberration as to how he performed for his entire career. Could he have simply turned a corner like Strome did? Sure. But it is far too early to tell.

I will say that I find it hard to believe that he is suddenly a 60 or 70 point player.
Well, I absolutely don’t think the Rangers got enough in return in the entire deal, including McD. But I also think that trade devalued Miller. It probably devalued both McD and Miller as far as I can tell. I said as much the day the trade broke in news and it seems even more true today. There were numerous other forwards the Rangers should have traded instead at the time. Not that TB would have wanted them, but then maybe that deal would have been an altered version or a hundred other possibilities. Not that he would be playing the pace he is right now had he stayed, but I always believed he had the potential to be a 65+ point guy given the right circumstances and a bit more consistency and talent in his linemates.
That is your prerogative, but the deal was what the deal was. Gorton got the most he could have gotten out of it. Saying that there are other forwards they Rangers could have traded ignores that the entire deal was not getting done unless it was Miller that was specifically included. So in that aspect, no it was not possible to trade another forward. Plus, I am not sure how his $5m would have fit in on the roster right now.
In that sense I always thought Miller was undervalued in NY and I’ve always thought he had much more potential in him. We are seeing that in perhaps what are ideal conditions for him. And it’s not just his offense. It’s his entire game, perhaps minus decision making. Although he seems to have improved in that regard as well.
Perhaps. Or it could be just a hot streak. Time will tell.
Well, there is no way of knowing yet if the Rangers screwed up regarding Kravtsov. He literally just left. He hasn’t really had the opportunity to succeed or fail yet. Hence the “hope” that it wasn’t a bad move. He definitely wasn’t having a great time in his brief experience here. But it’s not yet even a situation that requires “salvaging” as there has been no time to determine such an outcome. I make no such judgements regarding him at the moment.
Not sure what else the Rangers could have done aside from handing him a spot on the big club. He certainly did not earn it.
 

Luger

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Or are there not 66 top line wings in the entire NHL?

This only works if your premise is that not every single team has a top line.

Again, simply look at top 93 scoring forwards from last year.

I think when people say top line player, they mean someone capable of first line duty on a contender, not a collection of scraps on a team that is hopelessly out of playoffs by Thanksgiving.
 

DanielBrassard

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I like most of his game so far...

His game-sense is still in question, to me at least. He always suffocates the puck-carrier and rarely finds open ice. His stickhandling/1on1 skill is still average to below average. Skating around a defender is his best 'move', unfortunately he still tries to go through them too often.

He can still grow/mature but that's the limiting factor at the moment imo.
Totally agree about his stickhandling. Big fan of Fil but that is still something he needs to improve on but I'm not sure how possible that really is.
 

B17 Apricots

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Miller was putting up borderline first line numbers without top line minutes, I don't think it's that surprising what he's doing now with them. That one kinda stun he was just an unfortunate "causality" for shipping McD out
 

True Blue

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I think when people say top line player, they mean someone capable of first line duty on a contender, not a collection of scraps on a team that is hopelessly out of playoffs by Thanksgiving.
A top line player is a top line player. Being a top line player on the lower third of the tiers does not change the fact that you are a top line player.
 

JimmyG89

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Fil has been solid since coming back up. Best thing they did with him was send him down and let him get those games in as the top gun.

Now he's playing in a 3rd line role and playing well with some lesser players. He's not getting carried by a Panarin or getting the support of a Kreider on his wing. He rolled out there with Fast an McKegg, guys who we'd like to have on a 4th line and has been effective. That speak to what he is and where he can go.

Maybe not a top line center, but someone you'll feel really good slotting into the 2C role when this team is ready to compete and go deeper into the playoffs. His development from the middle of last season up to now is one that the organization should be proud of and one he should feel very good about.

Chytil and Zibanejad down the middle for the foreseeable future put this team in line to be near the top of the Metro for a while.
 

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Agree.. he's nowhere near as assertive as Zib yet. I'd even argue Strome has been better

This is on the offensive front only

Yeah thats a no.

Strome has had his moments and hes been a good player, but his production has been relatively quiet if not opportunistic.

Chytil has been much better since the call up. Maybe not as productive, but thats really no fault of his own. Buchnevich and Kreider have goof'd on at least a half dozen gimmies set up by Fil.
 

Levitate

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I think Chytil's stick handling has been loads better...he's not going to be a Zibanejad, Panarin, or Kakko, but he's gotten a lot better at holding onto the puck in general. not losing it as much, not trying too hard as much. h'es been pretty dang effective since hsi call up
 

aufheben

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Who is #2? Zib?
Buchnevich actually. Zibanejad isn’t even positive in either category.
  1. Panarin
  2. Buchnevich
  3. Chytil
  4. Fox
  5. Lemieux
Also, Chytil is #3 in both EVO/60 and EVD/60, which is the most exciting part of his progression: two-way play. He’s already starting to really resemble Zibanejad in the defensive zone.

This is way too small of a sample size to really mean anything but it still warms the cockles of my heart:
 
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