Fighting and its role in the NHL

[TaLoN]

Fighting in the NHL is up for debate again, as it always seems to be.. more and more each year.

How to limit staged fights without eliminating it completely IMO is the biggest issue. Though some want it gone completely.

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[NHL1674]

If they eliminate it completely, then they may as well wear dresses on the ice. Change will always happen, but they don't need to soften the game so much that it's unrecognizable from what it use to be just a couple decades ago.

Staged fights suck. But to take fighting away completely? It'd be pretty pathetic.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I wonder how many fights a year actually serve a purpose... ex: keeping a "pest" or "cheap-shotter" in check, policing a legitimate cheap shot/dangerous hit, a key player trying to change the momentum of a game or playoff series. My guess is that the percentage isn't as high as we'd think.

 

[TaLoN]

I wonder how many fights a year actually serve a purpose... ex: keeping a "pest" or "cheap-shotter" in check, policing a legitimate cheap shot/dangerous hit, a key player trying to change the momentum of a game or playoff series. My guess is that the percentage isn't as high as we'd think.

Unfortunately with the "instigator" rule, the cheap-shotters rarely have to stand up for themselves. The 3rd person in gets a penalty. Ridiculous rule, as all it does it protect the cheap-shotters.

 

[rynryn]

i appreciate fights in hockey and don't want to see them gone, but can't think of any way that would satisfy a real sense of justice reliably. I mean, if Bogosian concusses Spurgeon and Konopka jumps a punching bag in response, that doesn't do much for me. Also unjust if we are saddled with an extra penalty if Ballard or whoever is on the ice at the time jumps Bogosian who subsequently refuses to fight. I would appreciate the response and i'm sure Yeo and the team would too but...still not optimal. I'd be counting on someone knowing their hit should call for retaliation and obliging someone then and there. Which will almost never happen in real life. Not many David Backes' or Lucic's out there. Too many Lapierres, Ott's, and Cookes who will fight only if it's advantageous--either who they're fighting is waaay more important than them and/or smaller.

 

[FVM]

If they eliminate it completely, then they may as well wear dresses on the ice. Change will always happen, but they don't need to soften the game so much that it's unrecognizable from what it use to be just a couple decades ago.

Staged fights suck. But to take fighting away completely? It'd be pretty pathetic.

What's pathetic about it? Should rugby players wear dresses? Removing fights is not "softening" the game. Hitting and physical play will continue as an important part of the game, of course. But a boxing match in the middle of a hockey game will be history.

I wonder how many fights a year actually serve a purpose... ex: keeping a "pest" or "cheap-shotter" in check, policing a legitimate cheap shot/dangerous hit, a key player trying to change the momentum of a game or playoff series. My guess is that the percentage isn't as high as we'd think.

Retaliation is no argument for a neanderthal to "police" around the rink. Just like in everyday life, handing out penalties is the duty of justice system. As in refs in hockey. NOT taking justice in your own hands. Penalties for cheap shots must be made serious enough, and to hit not only the perpetrator but the team too (to make it impossible to call a goon from minors just to hurt a star player). It's just a question of technicalities.

I understand fighting used to be a part of NHL culture, but guess what, culture changes. After the recent deaths and new information of the brain damage an "enforcer" receives during his career, I don't see how a sane person can argue for such activitity for his or her personal entertainment. In a hockey game, of all places.

I'm for fighting completely removed from NHL and hockey.

 

[MuckOG]

Simple solution. After a player reaches a certain number of fighting majors, they are suspended without pay for a long period of time and the team is either fined heavily or not allowed to fill the roster spot vacated by the suspended player.

For example, say the NHL sets a limit of 4 fighting majors in a season. After the 5th major, that player is suspended without pay for 15 games and the team is fined $50,000. And for each subsequent fighting major the length of the suspension is increased as well as the team fine.

This way, fighting remains a part of the game to a certain extent, but it greatly diminishes the role of the enforcer.

 

[rynryn]

What's pathetic about it? Should rugby players wear dresses? Removing fights is not "softening" the game. Hitting and physical play will continue as an important part of the game, of course. But a boxing match in the middle of a hockey game will be history.



Retaliation is no argument for a neanderthal to "police" around the rink. Just like in everyday life, handing out penalties is the duty of justice system. As in refs in hockey. NOT taking justice in your own hands. Penalties for cheap shots must be made serious enough, and to hit not only the perpetrator but the team too (to make it impossible to call a goon from minors just to hurt a star player). It's just a question of technicalities.

I understand fighting used to be a part of NHL culture, but guess what, culture changes. After the recent deaths and new information of the brain damage an "enforcer" receives during his career, I don't see how a sane person can argue for such activitity for his or her personal entertainment. In a hockey game, of all places.

I'm for fighting completely removed from NHL and hockey.

i think it makes sense that anyone from a particular demographic who is bad at something would want that something removed from the contest.

 

[rynryn]

i like the idea of somehow letting one party chose who gets to serve the five minute major alongside the combatant. two guys fight, they take Toews or crosby with them to the penalty box for five minutes. how pissed would your coach be?

 

[FVM]

i think it makes sense that anyone from a particular demographic who is bad at something would want that something removed from the contest.

Way to reply with ad hominem. Are you saying I want fighting to be gone because I can't fight? I don't know how you come to such conclusion about my fighting prowess over a message board, and two, I don't see the relevance to discussion. I'm not a pro hockey player either, guess I shouldn't be talking about hockey.

 

[Avder]

The instigator needs to go, and the penalties for fights immediately after a faceoff need to be jacked up.

Eliminating the instigator means jerkwads like brown have to face the music for their illegal hits, and moron staged crap to "jumpstart" a crowd probably goes byebye.

 

[Puhis]

Retaliation is no argument for a neanderthal to "police" around the rink.

So, you're saying that a neanderthal can graduate from Princeton?

 

[FVM]

So, you're saying that a neanderthal can graduate from Princeton?

Yep. Parros is a smart man no doubt, but he's playing the role of a neanderthal on the ice.

 

[rynryn]

Way to reply with ad hominem. Are you saying I want fighting to be gone because I can't fight? I don't know how you come to such conclusion about my fighting prowess over a message board, and two, I don't see the relevance to discussion. I'm not a pro hockey player either, guess I shouldn't be talking about hockey.

meant that Finnish players in the NHL haven't had that reputation. assuming, by your use of the flag and location that you are Finnish. not a personal attack on you. And nowhere did i imply you shouldn't be commenting or your opinion counted for nothing. It's completely rational that someone who's (presumed, as a point of national pride) favorite players aren't good at something would be more likely to dismiss it. Right? I don't mean for it to sound as though I find that opinion offensive or girlie or anything.

 

[rynryn]

i think John Scott has an engineering degree from Michigan Tech, as well.

 

[00xtremeninja]

After hearing the long term problems boogie would have had if he were still alive I can't support all aspects of fighting. I get the reason why guys do it and why it protects players and liberties but the staged stuff needs to go

 

[FVM]

meant that Finnish players in the NHL haven't had that reputation. assuming, by your use of the flag and location that you are Finnish. not a personal attack on you. And nowhere did i imply you shouldn't be commenting or your opinion counted for nothing. It's completely rational that someone who's (presumed, as a point of national pride) favorite players aren't good at something would be more likely to dismiss it. Right? I don't mean for it to sound as though I find that opinion offensive or girlie or anything.

Alright, I got you wrong. My bad. But I still find the argument weird: only reason why there aren't Finnish enforcers in the league is because fighting is banned in FEL. There's simply not a niche for them to develop over here.

Also I'd wager the group of people whose favorite players are the enforcers and goons are a minimal proportion of the NHL fanbase. Heck, I like Parros. He's a respectable enforcer who doesn't cheap shot and he's great off the ice. I don't dislike him, I dislike the role he's playing. That ecological niche in the league under the current rules. That is what has to be removed. Parros and Scott with their educations will find other worthwhile causes and sources of income for sure.

 

[OpRedDawn*]

only fight with gloves on and no grabbing each other

Also, I'm not sure the "staged" fights are that big of a deal anyways. Throughout the season they're pretty rare. The reason I think there needs to be some form of in game police is that the sport is so non-linear and has so much gray area for players.

 

[Avder]

Yeah, the game is so fast, the refs cant possibly see everything. If something is bad enough that a player is willing to take a penalty in order to retaliate violently, I'm guessing theres at least some kind of justification for it.

Enforcers need to go but fighting needs to stay, and the instigator needs to go bye bye so people can take the Browns, Otts, Burrows and other jerkwads to task for their ass-hattery.

 

[rynryn]

Alright, I got you wrong. My bad. But I still find the argument weird: only reason why there aren't Finnish enforcers in the league is because fighting is banned in FEL. There's simply not a niche for them to develop over here.

Also I'd wager the group of people whose favorite players are the enforcers and goons are a minimal proportion of the NHL fanbase. Heck, I like Parros. He's a respectable enforcer who doesn't cheap shot and he's great off the ice. I don't dislike him, I dislike the role he's playing. That ecological niche in the league under the current rules. That is what has to be removed. Parros and Scott with their educations will find other worthwhile causes and sources of income for sure.

I understand you. It underscores the old "can he play on NA ice" question that every european prospect is subject too. players grow up playing the same sport in a different style with emphasis on different parts of the game. The NHL is in North America so it's up to Euro players to adapt. Removing fighting altogether would make it a little more like "home".

I would agree that people who's main or sole draw to the NHL is fighting are few, but the number of people who may be ardent, ticket buying fans who will turn more casual/occasional if it's banned could be larger than you think. Say they feel it's worth buying tickets because they love the hits, the fights, the breakaways, the snipes...but they love it just a little less if there is zero chance of one of those happening. Yeah, i'll just stay home and watch it on tv for free. it's not the reason not to buy tickets, but it's the little bit that pushes you over the edge. I used to get this, this, this and this for this much money. Parking has gone up, tickets have gone up, beer is twice as much, and this will no longer happen. You see what I'm saying? I'm sure some people left as the game got more clutch and grab and slowed down, too, though they probably didn't give up allegiance to their favorite team or stop following hockey. It's a consideration the league has to make.

 

[Puhis]

Shouldn't the title be "Fighting and its role in the NHL"?

 

[tomgilbertfan]

Shouldn't the title be "Fighting and its role in the NHL"?

King of pedantry right here.

 

[Avder]

Shouldn't the title be "Fighting and its role in the NHL"?

Really, puhis?

 

[NHL1674]

only fight with gloves on and no grabbing each other

Better yet. Take their sticks and replace them with pool noodles.

 

[FVM]

I understand you. It underscores the old "can he play on NA ice" question that every european prospect is subject too. players grow up playing the same sport in a different style with emphasis on different parts of the game. The NHL is in North America so it's up to Euro players to adapt. Removing fighting altogether would make it a little more like "home".

I would agree that people who's main or sole draw to the NHL is fighting are few, but the number of people who may be ardent, ticket buying fans who will turn more casual/occasional if it's banned could be larger than you think. Say they feel it's worth buying tickets because they love the hits, the fights, the breakaways, the snipes...but they love it just a little less if there is zero chance of one of those happening. Yeah, i'll just stay home and watch it on tv for free. it's not the reason not to buy tickets, but it's the little bit that pushes you over the edge. I used to get this, this, this and this for this much money. Parking has gone up, tickets have gone up, beer is twice as much, and this will no longer happen. You see what I'm saying? I'm sure some people left as the game got more clutch and grab and slowed down, too, though they probably didn't give up allegiance to their favorite team or stop following hockey. It's a consideration the league has to make.

Well, actually I don't want to change NHL to more Euro style. I don't follow FEL much. I prefer NHL as the highest level of competition. I like fast paced, physical game too. This is strictly about fighting, I just think it's so out of place for a team sport played on ice with a puck, stick and skates on.

As for the argument of reduced fan interest or passion, that might be true for a while. But on the other hand, game could get many new fans who've held prejudices for the sport before due to its perceived violent nature. With time fighting will also start to look more and more like a weird relic from a wild, violent past. As I said, culture changes, and hockey without fights would become the new normal soon enough.