Fans Want to End Careers for Their Mistakes. Consider Craig MacTavish

[Bouboumaster]

Mitchell Miller:

"I am extremely sorry about the bullying incident that occurred in 2016 while I was in eighth grade. I was young, immature and feel terrible about my actions. At the time, I did not understand the gravity of my actions and how they can affect other people.
“I have issued an apology to the family for my behavior, completed cultural diversity and sensitivity training and volunteered within my community with organizations such as Little Miracles. Over the past four years, I have had a lot of time to reflect and grow and I am very grateful to the Arizona Coyotes for taking a chance on me. I promise not to let them down.
“Moving forward, I want to be a leader for this cause and help end bullying and racism."

Some people don't even want to hear apologies, they just want to destroy children's lives.

I legit didn't know about his apologies.

Look, if he's honest, like Mactavish was, and work on himself to change, he could also deserves a 2nd chance.

I'd be more than happy to watch him turning it around.

 

[Bounces R Way]

I dunno, I'd like to think I believe in redemption. That redemption doesn't necessarily have to mean getting to continue playing a game for lots of money though. People have to deal with the consequences of their actions.

For me those consequences should also have reasonable limits. With the online accessibility of a person's history these days it's a bit tough to really see where those limits end. Monica Lewinsky still faces cyber bullying and slut shaming today for an event that occurred in 1998. Young people these days make a mistake and it's almost guaranteed to stay with them forever, far beyond whatever court decrees. That doesn't really sit well with me.

 

[Red Piller]

Tony DeAngelos words are wrong! Lets get rid of hm forever.

 

[jfrank21]

I believe in second chances, even third or fourth chances, but that is reserved for people who have true remorse and want to be better.

Both Miller and Mailloux have done that repeatedly. But the thought police keep saying how it's not sincere enough for their standards. The Miller thing is ridiculous. Posters just continuously post misinformation about him, with no moderation fact checking them, even though multiple examples have been posted about him apologizing, doing counseling, outreach programs, etc. But of course, when the facts of the matter are brought to light, people either willingly ignore it and continue to post their lies, or come back and say something like it wasn't sincere enough so it doesn't count.

 

[RememberTheName]

Yeah, I would love it if a third of draft eligible players were held to the same standard and given the opportunity to learn a lesson about respecting other people before they’re given the chance to earn millions of dollars.

why the f*** would people not want that? What’s the harm in getting a big batch of bad role models out of the way and giving their draft status to kids who did better as humans?

Follow-up question. With this high percentage of people I mentioned, do you think everyone is simply an ass, or is there a cultural issue at bay that normalizes this activity and encourages and pressures kids into doing this kind of stuff and causes so many people to do this? I know of people at both ends of the spectrum, those who are straight asses and those who are relatively harmless people who did it because of peer pressure and normalization.

 

[Deku]

The title/premise of this thread is silly. Regardless of what "fans want", no team is obligated to bring in any player who they deem to have character issues. Depending on the severity/context of a player's previous actions, bringing them in could become a locker room distraction and/or a PR nightmare.

DeAngelo will probably get a contract somewhere after being bought out. The Rangers were just sick of his shit.
What Mallioux did was definitely bad, and it will scare off some teams but he may still get drafted.
Miller is the worst optically of those three, so no one is going to touch him any time soon but he may still be able to carve out a career in europe and eventually make it back to NA if he shows personal growth and remorse

And all of these players will still have second chances in life outside of hockey. None of them are being shunned from society or anything.

 

[Tom Polakis]

The difference in MacT’s experience may have had less to do with society’s willingness to forgive then vs. now, and more to do with fewer people knowing what had happened. Information was WAY less readily available back then.

EDIT: As a kid following hockey in the 1980s I had zero idea that MacT had killed someone while driving drunk until many years after the fact.

That's the correct answer. People love to pit one generation against another, pointing out differences, typically for the worse. I don't think people are intrinsically different now than one or ten generations ago. What's changed profoundly is the access to information, and a platform to express one's opinions.

 

[KPower]

Cancel culture mentality brought to you by you know who.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Cancel culture mentality brought to you by you know who.

I don't know. Who?

 

[ACLEVERNAME]

Best not to think to hard. Thinking is dangerous.

 

[SEALBound]

People wield their cancel culture power via social media like a 4yo who found their dad's gun.

 

[MattMartin]

Hockey players and celebrities are marketing products. Do something dumb, it hurts your brand, and therefore other brands which rely on public support are unlikely to touch you. Having a professional sports career isn't just about how good you are.

Michael Vick, ever heard of him? Trust me, if you're good enough you will get a 2nd, or 3rd chance. It's easier to cancel the "lesser players". Same goes for Politicians, celebrities, etc.

 

[93LEAFS]

Michael Vick, ever heard of him? Trust me, if you're good enough you will get a 2nd, or 3rd chance. It's easier to cancel the "lesser players". Same goes for Politicians, celebrities, etc.

Well yeah, life isn't equal or fair. It's scale. That was also almost a decade ago.

 

[HolyGhost]

The OP is overlooking one KEY thing with Mactavish. Not everyone wanted him back in the league. MADD lead the charge

 

[HolyGhost]

I legit didn't know about his apologies.

Look, if he's honest, like Mactavish was, and work on himself to change, he could also deserves a 2nd chance.

I'd be more than happy to watch him turning it around.

problem is that there other bullying episodes that happened when he was 15 and 16

 

[jfrank21]

problem is that there other bullying episodes that happened when he was 15 and 16

Says who? The mother of the victim? All she did was express her opinion that she "felt" like Miller was still harassing her kid because he would rollerblade around the neighborhood. Not that he did anything to break his court ordered no contact. But that he rollerbladed by their house. Yeah, Ive never heard of a hockey player doing such a thing in the summer. How dare him!

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Both Miller and Mailloux have done that repeatedly. But the thought police keep saying how it's not sincere enough for their standards. The Miller thing is ridiculous. Posters just continuously post misinformation about him, with no moderation fact checking them, even though multiple examples have been posted about him apologizing, doing counseling, outreach programs, etc. But of course, when the facts of the matter are brought to light, people either willingly ignore it and continue to post their lies, or come back and say something like it wasn't sincere enough so it doesn't count.

Putting out a half-assed apology and trying to look good to NHL teams to get drafted is a long way away from being sincere and remorseful for your actions. He's like a little kid in his best bahavior on December 24th thinking he'll automatically get a really big present for xmas for being good for one whole day.

Dude was bullying a kid for YEARS. That's not a mistake, or youthful stupidity. Doesn't matter how you try to spin it.

 

[HaNotsri]

30 days in prison for killing someone? A year for MacT?

When you killed someone on a ship in the good ol' days you got strapped face to face with the corpse and thrown overboard. Then you were forgiven.

 

[jfrank21]

Putting out a half-assed apology and trying to look good to NHL teams to get drafted is a long way away from being sincere and remorseful for your actions. He's like a little kid in his best bahavior on December 24th thinking he'll automatically get a really big present for xmas for being good for one whole day.

Dude was bullying a kid for YEARS. That's not a mistake, or youthful stupidity. Doesn't matter how you try to spin it.

Except it was years of both kids going back and forth. Im from the area. I got first hand info of the actual facts. They hung out together and went back and forth with the inappropriate behavior. Ive heard from the teachers that had them in class. It culminated in Miller and his buddy taking things too far, but they were FOURTEEN. He went on to not only do the things that the courts demanded, but went above and beyond that. But apparently that's not enough. People love to project stuff that isnt even close to the reality of the situation so they can get brownie points and feel better about themselves. But they dont want to actually educate themselves about the events that really occured.

 

[HTFN]

Follow-up question. With this high percentage of people I mentioned, do you think everyone is simply an ass, or is there a cultural issue at bay that normalizes this activity and encourages and pressures kids into doing this kind of stuff and causes so many people to do this? I know of people at both ends of the spectrum, those who are straight asses and those who are relatively harmless people who did it because of peer pressure and normalization.

You don't get to use that as an excuse, you make your own choices, and as they say "you can't stay neutral on a moving train".

If the answer is "I knew it was wrong but I got pressured into doing it anyway" well congratulations, at least you knew it was wrong, that's one step out of the way. Those relatively harmless people are perpetuating that culture by failing to show a spine and check the assholes as one more year ticks by where "that's just kid stuff, it's normal". It doesn't f***ing have to be any more "normal" than segregated bathrooms and water fountains if enough people come together and put a stop to it.

 

[Vancouver_2010]

I don't know. Who?

Voldemort?

 

[93LEAFS]

Except it was years of both kids going back and forth. Im from the area. I got first hand info of the actual facts. They hung out together and went back and forth with the inappropriate behavior. Ive heard from the teachers that had them in class. It culminated in Miller and his buddy taking things too far, but they were FOURTEEN. He went on to not only do the things that the courts demanded, but went above and beyond that. But apparently that's not enough. People love to project stuff that isnt even close to the reality of the situation so they can get brownie points and feel better about themselves. But they dont want to actually educate themselves about the events that really occured.

Isn't the bullied kid developmentally delayed? That removes it from an escalation by two kids on equal standing that got taken too far.

 

[Sanchise90]

Seriously? This isn't "cancel culture" or whatever. It's simply "are you worth more than your problems?" in the workplace. Do people seriously think NHL teams are these bastions of morality? No chance, they'll just take the PR points if it's worth more to them then passing on a guy. To the examples you listed, Mitchell Miller was a 5th rd pick and that Mailloux guy hasn't even been drafted yet, so at this point they are not worth their respective headaches. Tony DeAngelo was worth more than his problems when he was a top scorer amongst defenseman. He wasn't last year and when you're not producing plus a toxic personality, it's easy to move on from.

Like Ryan O'Reilly got drunk and drove into a Tim Hortons. Dude wasn't blackballed from the league cause he was worth his problems and a year later when he's lifting the Stanley Cup, no one cared anymore. Ed Belfour had more arrests than Vezinas, no one cares cause he was a HOF goalie. It's just easier for teams and society to say "see ya" to someone that doesn't provide value to them, because it's a lot more complicated when they do.

Just using comparisons from other sports , guys like Barry Bonds, Jeff Kent, Kobe Bryant, Curt Schilling, Michael Jordan were all probably far more toxic in the locker room than Tony DeAngelo, but you let it slide cause they're great players.

No one has qualms about cutting DeAngelo, Miller or not drafting that Mailloux guy because they weren't worth the headaches. Do you think if say I dunno Mark Schiefele did what that Mailloux guy did or if David Pastrnak was a douche like Tony DeAngelo, they would get "cancelled" or "cut"? No chance. All these just serve as a lesson in the workplace: be worth more to your employers than your problems...

 

[Sanchise90]

NHL teams are businesses. It's not all just about your hockey abilities.

If your ability to play hockey at a high level is worth more than your problems, it absolutely is about your hockey abilities (jailtime notwithstanding)...

 

[Nemesis Prime]

Michael Vick, ever heard of him? Trust me, if you're good enough you will get a 2nd, or 3rd chance. It's easier to cancel the "lesser players". Same goes for Politicians, celebrities, etc.

They don't call it the National Felon League for nothing. Shit's like clockwork there.