Fallin for Hakfirin

briererocks

Registered User
Nov 23, 2011
1,051
174
While part of me really wants to see the Flyers in the playoffs, I am not upset at all when they lose. As many posters have noted, the last two games are losses that are attributable to the coach, not the players. Those losses add to a large number of losses that are at the doorstep of the coach and management. The only way Hak might get fired is if they do not make the playoffs. Not that its guaranteed he will be fired if they don't make the playoffs, but the reality is he will definitely not get fired if they squeek in.

As such, I am excited to see Ghost score, Patrick do well etc.. At the same time, I am not upset when they lose because Manning or Hagg are on the ice or they have Fillipilu or Lehetera playing at the end of the game in a role they should not be in.

Who knows - if we miss the playoffs maybe we end up with Dahlin, Svechnikov or Zadina. That said, more than another good player, this team needs a new competent coach. If your pk is bottom 5 in the league, if you refuse to play good young players in favor of crappy veterans, etc.. you are not going to progress far in the playoffs no matter who good your roster is.
 
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briererocks

Registered User
Nov 23, 2011
1,051
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Hak isn't getting fired, it would probably take an act of god.

If they miss the playoffs again and he does not get fired, he is at a minimum on very thin ice. Also, if they don't make the playoffs, Lappy will definitely get fired, Manning will not get resigned and there is a decent chance that Sanheim get significant ice time next year.

The outcomes I mentioned above are more suspect if they make the playoffs.
 

Curufinwe

Registered User
Feb 28, 2013
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It would probably take something crazy happening like the Flyers losing every game in February.
 

Danko

You have no marbles
Jul 28, 2004
10,977
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If they miss the playoffs again and he does not get fired, he is a minimum on very thin ice. Lappy will get fired, Manning will not get resigned and there is a chance that Sanheim get much more ice time next year.

The outcomes I mentioned above are more suspect if they make the playoffs.

Are we watching the same team/management? Nothing they have done or said makes me feel like any of that would happen. I hear ya, i wish for all of the above but we are cursed, we are being punished.
 

FlyersMania2

#FireHakstol
Jul 4, 2007
3,796
3,152
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I call him Mr. Chicken. As I've mentioned on here before, the guy loves mediocrity and would rather go with what he "knows" regardless of whether or not its inadequate. You just know he always picks chicken when he RSVPs to a wedding.
 

briererocks

Registered User
Nov 23, 2011
1,051
174
I call him Mr. Chicken. As I've mentioned on here before, the guy loves mediocrity and would rather go with what he "knows" regardless of whether or not its inadequate. You just know he always picks chicken when he RSVPs to a wedding.

His is so short sighted. Playing Elliot b/e it gives him the best chance of winning is one thing, but doing it 10 games in a row is just dumb. Preferring dump and chase players who play it safe but long term you need to let your players carry the puck and create offensively. It is mind boggling how dumb he is.

The Hakshell is another beauty.
 
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FlyersMania2

#FireHakstol
Jul 4, 2007
3,796
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NJ
Hak: loves grey, vanilla-flavored anything and always orders chicken.

He is the least interesting man in the world.
 

BillDineen

Former Flyer / Extinct Dinosaur Advisor
Aug 9, 2009
9,376
8,101
Hak: loves grey, vanilla-flavored anything and always orders chicken.

He is the least interesting man in the world.

If he would ever call a timeout for motivation, his players would fall asleep ...
If Hextall only gave him kids to play, he would dress Therien as an emergency callup ...
In the offseason, he sometimes gets mischievous and picks a beet too early ...
...
He is the least interesting man in the world.

"I don't ever drink beer, but when I do, I drink Bud Light"
 

briererocks

Registered User
Nov 23, 2011
1,051
174
If he would ever call a timeout for motivation, his players would fall asleep ...
If Hextall only gave him kids to play, he would dress Therien as an emergency callup ...
In the offseason, he sometimes gets mischievous and picks a beet too early ...
...
He is the least interesting man in the world.

"I don't ever drink beer, but when I do, I drink Bud Light"
That's awesome.
 

FlyersMania2

#FireHakstol
Jul 4, 2007
3,796
3,152
NJ
If he would ever call a timeout for motivation, his players would fall asleep ...
If Hextall only gave him kids to play, he would dress Therien as an emergency callup ...
In the offseason, he sometimes gets mischievous and picks a beet too early ...
...
He is the least interesting man in the world.

"I don't ever drink beer, but when I do, I drink Bud Light"

He benches the kids to let Mandog play big minutes
He thinks Jori Lehtera is worthy of powerplay minutes
He plays his starting goaltender 10 straight games without a break

"I don't like to call the young kids up but when I do, I prefer Haag"
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
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Maybe he starts Elliott ten games in a row b/c Neuvirth wasn't 100% (and still isn't), the third goalie is out for the season and as we've seen, the 4th goalies sucks pucks.
 

BobbyClarkeFan16

Registered User
Nov 29, 2005
10,789
3,886
Goderich, Ontario
What I really don't understand is that Hak has two defensemen who are capable of leading rushes and carrying the puck in Provorov and Gostisbehere, yet he doesn't want his defensemen to lead rushes. It makes zero sense that he'd neuter a big part of their game. I get that he wants to play it safe, but come on, that's just stupid when you take the aspect of their game away from them.

As well, I keep reading about how Hak has "no choice" or say in who or what players Hextall acquires. Does anyone honestly believe that in this day and age? Does anyone honestly think Hextall doesn't talk with Hak first to see if they acquire a guy if he'll fit into the lineup? Anyone who thinks Hak doesn't have a say really doesn't understand the game. I believe at one time coaches were given their rosters and were forced to make it work, but I really don't believe that anymore and that coaches have a BIG say on who is or isn't in the lineup.

I can't be mad anymore when I see the mess that's going on because this falls 100% on management and coaching. It's easy to blame guys like Lehtera or Weise or Filppula or Manning or MacDonald, but fact is, coaching and management believe that they can be successful. It's sad really that the rest of the league wouldn't give a squirt of piss for those guys if they became available, yet our esteemed group believes that they can be successful. And when I read "well, Lehtera's only getting x amount of ice time per game and Filppula's minutes have come down recently", it's simply not good enough, especially when you consider at one time Filppula actually got more ice time than guys in the top six. Let that sink in for a moment - Filppula actually got more time.

As I said, I'm not mad anymore. There's going to be a time when Hextall and company are going to have to put up or shut up. He's rebuild the prospect pipeline into something great. Now he needs to start focusing on fixing the NHL roster. If Stanley Cups were won by the collection of prospects a team has, the Flyers would have won several times over. He's also wasting away the prime years of Giroux and Voracek in order to rebuild this club and Hak certainly isn't doing the guys any favours. This off season, it's time to get a legitimate net minder while we wait for Hart or Sandstrom and it's time to jettison MacDonald and Manning because the young guys simply need to play. It's also time for Hak to fire Murphy and Laperriere and bring in real assistants that will get the young guys to the next level.
 

Rebels57

Former Flyers fan
Sponsor
Sep 28, 2014
76,748
123,297
While part of me really wants to see the Flyers in the playoffs, I am not upset at all when they lose. As many posters have noted, the last two games are losses that are attributable to the coach, not the players. Those losses add to a large number of losses that are at the doorstep of the coach and management. The only way Hak might get fired is if they do not make the playoffs. Not that its guaranteed he will be fired if they don't make the playoffs, but the reality is he will definitely not get fired if they squeek in.

As such, I am excited to see Ghost score, Patrick do well etc.. At the same time, I am not upset when they lose because Manning or Hagg are on the ice or they have Fillipilu or Lehetera playing at the end of the game in a role they should not be in.

Who knows - if we miss the playoffs maybe we end up with Dahlin, Svechnikov or Zadina. That said, more than another good player, this team needs a new competent coach. If your pk is bottom 5 in the league, if you refuse to play good young players in favor of crappy veterans, etc.. you are not going to progress far in the playoffs no matter who good your roster is.

Hak won't get fired and we are not winning the lottery if we miss the playoffs.

There is no light at the end of the tunnel.

All we can do is try to enjoy when the good players do good things.
 
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deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
Who expected to make the playoffs in September? 'Fess up.
So the complaint is basically we're an inconsistent, marginal playoff contender.
In other words, a tad better than most of us expected.
I thought they could contend for the playoffs (i.e. 92-95 points) if they got above average goaltending, which they haven't.
So they're actually playing a bit above my expectations.

At some point Hextall is going to take the training wheels off and let the kids ride their bikes down the streets.
And a couple will fall down.
But next year is going to be a deeper, more talented team.
However, we all know a serious cup run won't occur until Hart/Sandstrom/Ustimenko take over in goal.
You're simply not going to get above 95 points or into the second round with Elliott/Neuvirth/Lyon in goal.
 

Curufinwe

Registered User
Feb 28, 2013
55,780
42,848
Who expected the PK to be 30th in the league? Or Jori Lehtera to become a PP and PK regular? Or Goulbourne to get called up and sent down before Lindblom played an NHL game? Or Hagg to get more ice time than Sanheim?

The PK going from bad to terrible is the biggest issue with this team, and it's not the fault of the goalies.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
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Neuvirth and Elliott are two of the four worst goalies in PK save %.
That explains the jump in GA for players like Provorov, who I doubt suddenly forgets how to play on the PK.
 

Curufinwe

Registered User
Feb 28, 2013
55,780
42,848
Hextall says the PK goaltending has been better this year, so eliminate that as a reason for the poor PK in 17-18.

DVDcsnvX4AEmbwD.jpg:large
 
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deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
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2016-17
Mason 86%
Neuvirth 83%

2017-18
Elliott 81%
Neuvirth 80%

15 goalies are > 90% on the PK
88.5% is about the median, 88.7% for starting goalies
Strangely enough, Bob isn't one of them, he's only been above 90% once in four years.

An interesting study would be to correlate success on the PK with playoff success as a goalie.
Thought is PK success is a better measure of pure skill, tougher shots where a good defense can't protect like they can at 5x5, and that should relate to success in the playoffs against tougher opponents where goalies have to come up big.
 
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BobbyClarkeFan16

Registered User
Nov 29, 2005
10,789
3,886
Goderich, Ontario
Who expected to make the playoffs in September? 'Fess up.
So the complaint is basically we're an inconsistent, marginal playoff contender.
In other words, a tad better than most of us expected.
I thought they could contend for the playoffs (i.e. 92-95 points) if they got above average goaltending, which they haven't.
So they're actually playing a bit above my expectations.

What I expected was for the team to be competitive and I expected an infusion of youth, especially when Hakstol and Hextall both mentioned they were going to work more young players into the lineup. I expected more than Leier, Laughton and Hagg. They both said that this was going to be a development year. That hasn't been the case. I expected more. They basically forced an unhealthy Nolan Patrick into the lineup because he was the 2nd overall choice. They sent down Lindblom because he didn't 'perform' well in the preseason (and honestly, Lindblom didn't have the opportunity to play with a Giroux or Couturier or Voracek or anyone of that ilk).

Brian Elliott started off the year slowly, but he hit a groove and then Hakstol went into Hakstol mode and ran the guy into the ground. He wouldn't use his others goaltenders available to him. On top of it, if Hak didn't know what Neuvy was capable of, he should have told Hextall not to re-sign him. And before anyone says "well the coach doesn't have a say who the GM signs or trades for", that's a load of crap. Hak knew full well what he was getting with Neuvy. All what Hak needed to do was give him a break every now and then and he wouldn't even do that. His mismanagement of the goaltending is a farce. Elliott was supposed to be here to be a stop gap, but Hak rode him hard like he was the second coming of Brodeur. Do you know of any other goaltender this year that started the number of games in a row that Elliott did? Exactly. It simply doesn't happen anymore and yet there's Hak basically thumbing his nose to everything and doing EXACTLY what he did last year with Mason when he rode Mason into the ground.

At some point Hextall is going to take the training wheels off and let the kids ride their bikes down the streets.
And a couple will fall down.
But next year is going to be a deeper, more talented team.
However, we all know a serious cup run won't occur until Hart/Sandstrom/Ustimenko take over in goal.
You're simply not going to get above 95 points or into the second round with Elliott/Neuvirth/Lyon in goal.


Hextall won't don't that. He already said he wouldn't do that. He's not going to foster a lineup of young players that we all hope he would. Those 'veterans' that he and Hakstol love are going to remain here. Do you honestly think he's going to move Manning and MacDonald so that Hakstol will develop Morin and Sanheim? Not happening. How is next year going to be a deeper team? That would mean having to work in the previously mentioned Morin and Sanheim, plus Lindblom and Vecchione, and one of Martel/NAK/Vorobyov. That's five rookies that they'll need to work in. There's ZERO chance of that happening. Just look at this year. This was the time to work in the five rookies and Hak and Hextall couldn't bring themselves to do that.

As for Hart/Sandstrom/Ustimenko, do you not think they're going to the 'Flyers' treatment of playing at least two, maybe three seasons in the AHL before they're given a shot? Of course they are.

Fact is, this WAS the year to work all those young guys into the lineup. They failed. I get your going to defend them to the end and I can respect that. At the same time, I'm not giving them the benefit of the doubt anymore. What was the one thing Hextall said when he brought Hak on board? He was a great coach to work with young players. When I see Sanheim fail as bad as he has, when I see Morin only gets one game and then gets shipped out, when I see Hak give more of an opportunity to Goulbourne than he did Martel, then I need to question what kind of culture is being run. And I get you're going to say Provorov and Konecny, but Provorov was already a great defenseman when he arrived and Konecny got the Hakstol treatment before he put Konecny with capable players.

When I see a team like Toronto work in young defensemen with no problems, I seriously question what's happening in Philadelphia, especially when you consider the prospect defensemen we have. I wonder if it's a Hakstol thing or a Gord Murphy thing (and just to note, the Flyers defense is the 12th worst in the league). I also question Hakstol's reputation when Gostisbehere has flat out stated that he has basically ignored Hak and is playing his game. We also know that Hakstol has communication issues with players and how much of that has played into Sanheim's lack of development. Those are legitimate questions that need to be answered. Until they are, there will always be people questioning what's going on.
 

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