Confirmed Signing with Link: F Josh Ho-Sang to the KHL

abo9

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Jun 25, 2017
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Do you have examples of this still being a problem? I don't pay much attention to the Islanders so o haven't heard anything.

It just seems weird to me because he has good AHL stats. It seems like he just needs someone to steer him in the right direction.

Like how he refused to report to Bridgeport last December?
https://thehockeywriters.com/islanders-ho-sang-value-remains/

The big problem with Ho Sang is he yaps a lot but doesn't back it up with results. He's got good AHL stats but it's nothing really dominating and worth going crazy about for an offense-first player.

After Ho Sang requested a trade, he was waived AND put on the block, but nobody called. I believe that no NHL team wants to have to deal with him after his history with the Islanders. And why would they? That's a prospect/AHL player that brought a bunch of negative attention to the Islanders just by being there.
 

Bood12

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Oct 12, 2016
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Like how he refused to report to Bridgeport last December?
https://thehockeywriters.com/islanders-ho-sang-value-remains/

The big problem with Ho Sang is he yaps a lot but doesn't back it up with results. He's got good AHL stats but it's nothing really dominating and worth going crazy about for an offense-first player.

After Ho Sang requested a trade, he was waived AND put on the block, but nobody called. I believe that no NHL team wants to have to deal with him after his history with the Islanders. And why would they? That's a prospect/AHL player that brought a bunch of negative attention to the Islanders just by being there.
ha I love the narrative, crap like this shows how there is a stigma against Ho-Sang and perhaps guys "like" him and how it is not based on fact, he requested a trade in October and than Lou basically told him to wait at home and he basically rotted there until he reached out to the Islanders and they allowed him to play in Bridgeport, and there were rumors that there were trade requests made for Ho-Sang but they were turned down for whatever reason
 

JTToilinginToronto

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I am saying PK would not have been given a chance, he was a can't miss prospect so he was going to get playing time


really? stats and the eye test do not agree with this


I do think on a pure talent basis, JHS is good enough for the NHL.

But both the Snow/Weight/Capuano Islanders, and the Lou/Trots Islanders just had issues with him. That's two separate Islanders management groups who didn't want him around. And none of the other 30 teams wanted to touch him with a 10 foot pole either.

I'm not exactly sure what as I'm just a nobody fan, but it's fair to speculate that he caused issues behind the scenes.
 
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abo9

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ha I love the narrative, crap like this shows how there is a stigma against Ho-Sang and perhaps guys "like" him and how it is not based on fact, he requested a trade in October and than Lou basically told him to wait at home and he basically rotted there until he reached out to the Islanders and they allowed him to play in Bridgeport, and there were rumors that there were trade requests made for Ho-Sang but they were turned down for whatever reason

So you're also basing your argumentative on rumours? :sarcasm:
Gosh I really don't know who's the problem? A successful, long-tenured GM or a guy who *apparently* was on a bunch of teams' no-draft list. Like, the same teams that had the chance to interview him and followed his junior career before getting drafted.

There's no doubt he worked hard (and that's an understatement) to be playing at the AHL/NHL level, but somewhere along the way he gained such a bad reputation that 30 other teams don't want to touch him, even for free. The Islanders most probably mishandled his development early on since its came to that point (they did with several other players in the past too).

We'll see what he does in the KHL. Hopefully for him he can turn it around, but if it doesn't, will it still be because the world is against him?
 

BTrotts19

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May 17, 2013
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Do you have examples of this still being a problem? I don't pay much attention to the Islanders so o haven't heard anything.

It just seems weird to me because he has good AHL stats. It seems like he just needs someone to steer him in the right direction.

The problem is he doesnt want to be steered, he wants to play his game; dangle, not focus on the neutral/defensive zone, listen to constructive criticism and attempt to change his game.

As has been said, he was reportedly on many teams no draft list. Garth sacrificed a late 1st, and I think most Isles fans were happy with it, as the risk/reward was favorable. When your org has GM/coaches like Snow/Capuano/Weight i think we said it must be them keeping him down. When you have guys like Lou Lams/Barry Trotz assessing him the same way and then when waived and NOBODY picks him up, that speaks volumes.

Wish him luck, but he is where he belongs. Maybe this gets thru to him and he can make a return on a flyer from a weaker team.
 
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Kevin Musto

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The problem is he doesnt want to be steered, he wants to play his game; dangle, not focus on the neutral/defensive zone, listen to constructive criticism and attempt to change his game.

As has been said, he was reportedly on many teams no draft list. Garth sacrificed a late 1st, and I think most Isles fans were happy with it, as the risk/reward was favorable. When your org has GM/coaches like Snow/Capuano/Weight i think we said it must be them keeping him down. When you have guys like Lou Lams/Barry Trotz assessing him the same way and then when waived and NOBODY picks him up, that speaks volumes.

Wish him luck, but he is where he belongs. Maybe this gets thru to him and he can make a return on a flyer from a weaker team.
Appreciate the detailed response :thumbu:
 
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Bood12

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I do think on a pure talent basis, JHS is good enough for the NHL.

But both the Snow/Weight/Capuano Islanders, and the Lou/Trots Islanders just had issues with him. That's two separate Islanders management groups who didn't want him around. And none of the other 30 teams wanted to touch him with a 10 foot pole either.

I'm not exactly sure what as I'm just a nobody fan, but it's fair to speculate that he caused issues behind the scenes.
yup, and I want to hear that "speculation", as far as I know I just go by the eye and the stat test, and that is he got screwed over by the Islanders, if there is something that went on behind the scenes I want to know about, but other than that I am going to deal with what I see and the facts
So you're also basing your argumentative on rumours? :sarcasm:
Gosh I really don't know who's the problem? A successful, long-tenured GM or a guy who *apparently* was on a bunch of teams' no-draft list. Like, the same teams that had the chance to interview him and followed his junior career before getting drafted.

There's no doubt he worked hard (and that's an understatement) to be playing at the AHL/NHL level, but somewhere along the way he gained such a bad reputation that 30 other teams don't want to touch him, even for free. The Islanders most probably mishandled his development early on since its came to that point (they did with several other players in the past too).

We'll see what he does in the KHL. Hopefully for him he can turn it around, but if it doesn't, will it still be because the world is against him?
it is you who is basing your argument on rumors, you are talking about what people say about him and his reputation, you do not know anything about him
 

JTToilinginToronto

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Jan 18, 2019
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yup, and I want to hear that "speculation", as far as I know I just go by the eye and the stat test, and that is he got screwed over by the Islanders, if there is something that went on behind the scenes I want to know about, but other than that I am going to deal with what I see and the facts

it is you who is basing your argument on rumors, you are talking about what people say about him and his reputation, you do not know anything about him
I mean he overslept once, which is noted fact.

As for anything else, none of us regular nobodies will ever know unless Josh himself eventually goes public with it.

However, you're kidding yourself if you're implying that there's nothing there. For all the talent he has, all 31 NHL teams want to avoid him like the plague. That doesn't happen for no reason.
 

abo9

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yup, and I want to hear that "speculation", as far as I know I just go by the eye and the stat test, and that is he got screwed over by the Islanders, if there is something that went on behind the scenes I want to know about, but other than that I am going to deal with what I see and the facts

it is you who is basing your argument on rumors, you are talking about what people say about him and his reputation, you do not know anything about him

As opposed to you? Who are you, his best buddy? I obviously don't know him personally but eh Garth Snow defended his selection pretty adamantly at the time of the draft.

Josh Ho-Sang - Wikipedia

But then, it all went sour and he was never able to impress the team. Isn't it fair to assume that a team won't waste a precious 1st rounder on a kid they have stereotyped as "not good"? Then, Lamoriello came along and same story.

Also, which "facts" are you even stating?

he requested a trade in October and than Lou basically told him to wait at home and he basically rotted there until he reached out to the Islanders and they allowed him to play in Bridgeport, and there were rumors that there were trade requests made for Ho-Sang but they were turned down for whatever reason

You're literally saying that they are rumors!!! The fact is, he was waived and nobody claimed it. I know there's some kind of perk for teams to him clearing waivers before being traded but I don't believe teams were lining up the offers after they passed on him for free.

You really think he was screwed over by the Islander's management due to his skin color, and that every team in the NHL wants to screw him over due to his skin color?
 

Bood12

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I mean he overslept once, which is noted fact.

As for anything else, none of us regular nobodies will ever know unless Josh himself eventually goes public with it.

However, you're kidding yourself if you're implying that there's nothing there. For all the talent he has, all 31 NHL teams want to avoid him like the plague. That doesn't happen for no reason.
yea because history has shown "biases" do not occur for some reason, specifically to people with his background
 

Bood12

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Oct 12, 2016
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As opposed to you? Who are you, his best buddy? I obviously don't know him personally but eh Garth Snow defended his selection pretty adamantly at the time of the draft.

Josh Ho-Sang - Wikipedia

But then, it all went sour and he was never able to impress the team. Isn't it fair to assume that a team won't waste a precious 1st rounder on a kid they have stereotyped as "not good"? Then, Lamoriello came along and same story.

Also, which "facts" are you even stating?



You're literally saying that they are rumors!!! The fact is, he was waived and nobody claimed it. I know there's some kind of perk for teams to him clearing waivers before being traded but I don't believe teams were lining up the offers after they passed on him for free.

You really think he was screwed over by the Islander's management due to his skin color, and that every team in the NHL wants to screw him over due to his skin color?
no I do not know him, but you are the ones demeaning him based on his personality and all this other garbage, so you are the ones demeaning him so lets hear why? and he is/was the 2nd most dynamic player in the Islanders organization behind Barzal, that is a fact that still holds true today,,,, and no I do not think it is solely based on his skin color, I think it on a mix between his skin color and his personality, a thing that is such a stigma in the NHL
 

JTToilinginToronto

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yea because history has shown "biases" do not occur for some reason, specifically to people with his background
So you're suggesting all 31 teams don't want him because he's black?

Just want to make sure I'm understanding your position here.
 

Bood12

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So you're suggesting all 31 teams don't want him because he's black?

Just want to make sure I'm understanding your position here.

where do you suggest 31 teams do not want him? if he is going to get to Free Agency do you really think a team would not take a chance on him? I am sure he is going to get a good offer from Russia and he figures it is more lucrative to go there than to try and fight for a NHL spot here
 

JTToilinginToronto

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Jan 18, 2019
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where do you suggest 31 teams do not want him? if he is going to get to Free Agency do you really think a team would not take a chance on him? I am sure he is going to get a good offer from Russia and he figures it is more lucrative to go there than to try and fight for a NHL spot here
He was on waivers.

He got literally sent to another team's AHL team to play. Surely that suggests he was available for trade.
 
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Bood12

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He was on waivers.

He got literally sent to another team's AHL team to play. Surely that suggests he was available for trade.
he got put on waivers the last day, a team would have to waive a player they had to make their roster, it is not like he was just available for nothing, you do not know the circumstance of why he went to San Antonio and if Lou had any offers on him
 

abo9

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Jun 25, 2017
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yea because history has shown "biases" do not occur for some reason, specifically to people with his background

I'll link an article below in my response below, and he said it in context of wanting to help people, so he does sound like he has a good heart to help others. However, not sure about how bad his "background" is:
" “Nothing’s been hard about my life. Nothing,” Ho-Sang says. "

no I do not know him, but you are the ones demeaning him based on his personality and all this other garbage, so you are the ones demeaning him so lets hear why? and he is/was the 2nd most dynamic player in the Islanders organization behind Barzal, that is a fact that still holds true today,,,, and no I do not think it is solely based on his skin color, I think it on a mix between his skin color and his personality, a thing that is such a stigma in the NHL

I agree 100% on his personality being a factor here, and I think everyone agrees. I'm not sure how I was demeaning to him, it's true that he talks big and that he has not supported his big talk yet.

I was genuinely curious about the whole "do not trade list" thing and why Snow needed to defend the pick (sounds a little extreme for a junior player). Here's an article from 2014/2015, I actually thought it was a great read since it was a lot of him talking from his experience in juniors: Sunday Big Read: Josh Ho-Sang vs. the world - Sportsnet.ca

And a few key points I thought were interesting:

At the very start of the article, the writer states that Ho-Sang is on his own off the ice, trailing behind his teammates. That he is the last one on the ice and the first off the ice. Two things here:
  • He was not part of the group. Well, he was a new player in Niagara but still, did nobody try to include him? Did he just do his own things?
  • Last on the ice/first off: Major red flag for any outsider suggesting a lack of work ethic, usually. But given what we know about his (lack of) integration with the team, it could also suggest that he was actively avoiding his teammates off the ice for some reason?
Then, the whole story about hockey canada excluding him. Weird to say the least, as he was an excellent offensive junior player at the time. But Hockey Canada has always been about "team first" and they don't lack talent (even at the Olympic level, selections such as Chris Kunitz over Martin St-Louis have been criticized for example). But then you get this pearl:
  • As Ho-Sang tells it, the coaching staff blamed him for the loss. “They got mad at me and said I don’t play hockey properly, that if I don’t change my game I’m gonna end up playing in the coast [the ECHL],” Ho-Sang says. “It’s like, you guys are losers. You’re trying to blame the whole thing on me; you’re saying I’m uncoachable and all this stuff. And ever since then I haven’t been invited to a Hockey Canada camp. But you have the best team in the world on paper, and, what, we lost because of me?”
People can interpret it as they want, but it's kinda sad that this "ECHL" prediction is coming true. Also might explain the team Canada exclusions.

The article is also loaded with him talking of himself as the next superstar and how self-important he thinks he is - either that's a shit ton of confidence of straight up arrogance, but he never delivered even half of his extravagant promises.

Also, I have not seen him play in the juniors, but if the following is true, that's also a major red flag for any hockey team:

"There are nights when Ho-Sang tries to do too much, circling around the neutral zone with the puck on his stick for 15, 20, sometimes 30 seconds as he waits for the defence to make a mistake."

Surprisingly, the final quote is Ho-Sang admitting some fault and humility:

" I’ve definitely been tough to coach. But I’m definitely getting easier. I’m working on it. It’s patience. And it’s frustration. It’s tough adjusting. I’m trying to play a more complete game, be a more complete hockey player. We’ll see what happens next.”

Idk if he tried to conform to the Islander's vision, and him not being "rewarded" tilted him and he got pissed at management, but I think it's clear reading this article as to why NHL teams don't want to deal with him. Drama is one of the thing NHL teams want to avoid like plague, and his personality is just conductive to endless drama (again, from what I could glean in this article). Sounds like he has good human values, but it also sounds like he tries too hard to become a one-man show in a team sport.



Once again, I'm not trying to be demeaning to him. I just think it's a little far-fetch when I see people question where the off-ice red flags are, where they are so many on full display. Nevermind what's potentially being said behind closed doors. My impression is that if he plays the game the "right way", both on and off the ice, he'll get a second chance in the NHL.

I'm sorry for the long-winded response, I got carried away.
 

JTToilinginToronto

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Jan 18, 2019
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he got put on waivers the last day, a team would have to waive a player they had to make their roster, it is not like he was just available for nothing, you do not know the circumstance of why he went to San Antonio and if Lou had any offers on him
If he was as wanted as you claim he would have been, a team would have easily waived a scrub to claim him.

I get you're playing dumb here since as an average fan, I don't have the insider knowledge.

But what I do have is the ability to critically think. I'll look at the context clues:

- It's been reported at the time of his draft that multiple teams passed up on him due to attitude problems.
- Two different sets of NYI management didn't want him anywhere near the team.
- It's factually reported he overslept and missed practice.
- He was waived and no one bit.
- He requested a trade and the GM said he would entertain it. No one ended up trading for him.
- He was literally sent packing for free because of zero external interest to a different AHL team.
- He signed early with the KHL without even giving these supposed interested NHL teams a chance in the upcoming free agency.

If all that circumstantial evidence isn't enough for you, I think you might benefit from taking a course in logical thinking at your local educational facility.
 
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Bood12

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I'll link an article below in my response below, and he said it in context of wanting to help people, so he does sound like he has a good heart to help others. However, not sure about how bad his "background" is:
" “Nothing’s been hard about my life. Nothing,” Ho-Sang says. "




I agree 100% on his personality being a factor here, and I think everyone agrees. I'm not sure how I was demeaning to him, it's true that he talks big and that he has not supported his big talk yet.

I was genuinely curious about the whole "do not trade list" thing and why Snow needed to defend the pick (sounds a little extreme for a junior player). Here's an article from 2014/2015, I actually thought it was a great read since it was a lot of him talking from his experience in juniors: Sunday Big Read: Josh Ho-Sang vs. the world - Sportsnet.ca

And a few key points I thought were interesting:

At the very start of the article, the writer states that Ho-Sang is on his own off the ice, trailing behind his teammates. That he is the last one on the ice and the first off the ice. Two things here:
  • He was not part of the group. Well, he was a new player in Niagara but still, did nobody try to include him? Did he just do his own things?
  • Last on the ice/first off: Major red flag for any outsider suggesting a lack of work ethic, usually. But given what we know about his (lack of) integration with the team, it could also suggest that he was actively avoiding his teammates off the ice for some reason?
Then, the whole story about hockey canada excluding him. Weird to say the least, as he was an excellent offensive junior player at the time. But Hockey Canada has always been about "team first" and they don't lack talent (even at the Olympic level, selections such as Chris Kunitz over Martin St-Louis have been criticized for example). But then you get this pearl:
  • As Ho-Sang tells it, the coaching staff blamed him for the loss. “They got mad at me and said I don’t play hockey properly, that if I don’t change my game I’m gonna end up playing in the coast [the ECHL],” Ho-Sang says. “It’s like, you guys are losers. You’re trying to blame the whole thing on me; you’re saying I’m uncoachable and all this stuff. And ever since then I haven’t been invited to a Hockey Canada camp. But you have the best team in the world on paper, and, what, we lost because of me?”
People can interpret it as they want, but it's kinda sad that this "ECHL" prediction is coming true. Also might explain the team Canada exclusions.

The article is also loaded with him talking of himself as the next superstar and how self-important he thinks he is - either that's a shit ton of confidence of straight up arrogance, but he never delivered even half of his extravagant promises.

Also, I have not seen him play in the juniors, but if the following is true, that's also a major red flag for any hockey team:

"There are nights when Ho-Sang tries to do too much, circling around the neutral zone with the puck on his stick for 15, 20, sometimes 30 seconds as he waits for the defence to make a mistake."

Surprisingly, the final quote is Ho-Sang admitting some fault and humility:

" I’ve definitely been tough to coach. But I’m definitely getting easier. I’m working on it. It’s patience. And it’s frustration. It’s tough adjusting. I’m trying to play a more complete game, be a more complete hockey player. We’ll see what happens next.”

Idk if he tried to conform to the Islander's vision, and him not being "rewarded" tilted him and he got pissed at management, but I think it's clear reading this article as to why NHL teams don't want to deal with him. Drama is one of the thing NHL teams want to avoid like plague, and his personality is just conductive to endless drama (again, from what I could glean in this article). Sounds like he has good human values, but it also sounds like he tries too hard to become a one-man show in a team sport.



Once again, I'm not trying to be demeaning to him. I just think it's a little far-fetch when I see people question where the off-ice red flags are, where they are so many on full display. Nevermind what's potentially being said behind closed doors. My impression is that if he plays the game the "right way", both on and off the ice, he'll get a second chance in the NHL.

I'm sorry for the long-winded response, I got carried away.
I'll just respond to the bolded, I would like to see if his answer has changed in the 5 years since this was written and if he thinks his "background" has anything to do with it

also as far as the coaches blaming him for his loss, you also didn't mention how he played "limited minutes" and the coaches still blamed him despite putting up 5 points on 5 games while going +5
 
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Bood12

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If he was as wanted as you claim he would have been, a team would have easily waived a scrub to claim him.

I get you're playing dumb here since as an average fan, I don't have the insider knowledge.

But what I do have is the ability to critically think. I'll look at the context clues:

- It's been reported at the time of his draft that multiple teams passed up on him due to attitude problems.
- Two different sets of NYI management didn't want him anywhere near the team.
- It's factually reported he overslept and missed practice.
- He was waived and no one bit.
- He requested a trade and the GM said he would entertain it. No one ended up trading for him.
- He was literally sent packing for free because of zero external interest to a different AHL team.
- He signed early with the KHL without even giving these supposed interested NHL teams a chance in the upcoming free agency.

If all that circumstantial evidence isn't enough for you, I think you might benefit from taking a course in logical thinking at your local educational facility.
I couldn't care less about any of the garbage you said, all I know is to the eye test and to the stat test he should have been given more playing time than he received, and unless I find out some other underlying reason why he was basically black-balled from the team, I am going to speculate what that reason is, and he did not sign with a KHL team yet as far as anything made public, it sounds like he is just "linked" to it
 

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