TSN: Extensive TSN Interview with Kyle Dubas tonight.

[hotpaws]

we'll see how he performs in the coming years and actions speak louder than words for me but i'd wish he'd just stop with the catch phrases

if he wasn't talking about biases he was talking about market inefficiencies or buying in and now in this interview he was using ''the process'' endlessly but again when asked he couldn't give an explanation to what he meant

still much better than Burke's tie around the neck loudmouth shtick however , lol , still don't know how he had such a large rabid fan base on our forum

 

[Trapper]

Pretty much. His actions will be judged in due time but so far I'm not sure how anyone can be let down or sceptical with the current course of action.

Well said.
Let him be judged for how things progress. It's the same as judging Matthews/Marner/Nylander or any other prospect. Should I call Nylander a career 60 point winger? Probably not. He will be given time to earn what he will be called.

So far Dubas has cut ties with old UFAs (which many of us were ready to move on from) and signed Tavares long term. Now you can argue that Tavares was going to sign here anyway, but I will bet you my next paycheck that if he didn't, there would be 500 pages of posts saying that if Lou was here he would have signed. You can't win either way.

We might be viewed as a contender but we are still building and maturing, even if Dubas does nothing but sign the kids, that's fine. I see nothing top 4 D available to us right now so we might as well roll with what we have. What we sign the kids for will be important. People can grade him on how he did.

Next up for Dubas judging, will be the Gardiner situation. This is not a player we want to walk for nothing.
Losing a top 4 D is a bad idea.

Other than that, Shanahan and Dubas have changed the management org hierarchy, so everyone deserves a chance to see how it comes together before someone has been deemed a failure.

 

[SprDaVE]

Well said.
Let him be judged for how things progress. It's the same as judging Matthews/Marner/Nylander or any other prospect. Should I call Nylander a career 60 point winger? Probably not. He will be given time to earn what he will be called.

So far Dubas has cut ties with old UFAs (which many of us were ready to move on from) and signed Tavares long term. Now you can argue that Tavares was going to sign here anyway, but I will bet you my next paycheck that if he didn't, there would be 500 pages of posts saying that if Lou was here he would have signed. You can't win either way.

We might be viewed as a contender but we are still building and maturing, even if Dubas does nothing but sign the kids, that's fine. I see nothing top 4 D available to us right now so we might as well roll with what we have. What we sign the kids for will be important. People can grade him on how he did.

Next up for Dubas judging, will be the Gardiner situation. This is not a player we want to walk for nothing.
Losing a top 4 D is a bad idea.

Other than that, Shanahan and Dubas have changed the management org hierarchy, so everyone deserves a chance to see how it comes together before someone has been deemed a failure.

Gardiner is 100% something to keep an eye on. I understand Dubas being very high on him and I would understand not wanting to trade away a top end asset while in the midst of a potential cup contending year... but I really hope he doesn't let him walk one way or another.

I was also hoping to clear the backup goaltender logjam we have but that's fairly minor.

 

[The CyNick]

I’m a huge Sparks fan, but you’re simply way off base if you think that’s the only reason for the Marlies championship.

If I had made that point this would be a logical rebuttal. Unfortunately I didn't so you're coming off poorly here.

 

[Cor]

Ah, I see this thread went of the rails thanks to the usual suspect.

 

[DarkKnight]

we'll see how he performs in the coming years and actions speak louder than words for me but i'd wish he'd just stop with the catch phrases

if he wasn't talking about biases he was talking about market inefficiencies or buying in and now in this interview he was using ''the process'' endlessly but again when asked he couldn't give an explanation to what he meant

still much better than Burke's tie around the neck loudmouth shtick however , lol , still don't know how he had such a large rabid fan base on our forum

In the end, I couldn't give a shit about his eloquence, flowery rhetoric, or if he can name the guy in the mailroom during an interview, it's all about results. So far so good!

 

[The CyNick]

Derek Ryan - Agree not a great option.

Calvin De Haan - On the fence, he would have been OK but Carolina overpaid, so I'm glad they got him.

Kessel Trade - The logic makes no sense to me. Dubas may have been running point on the trade talks, but their is zero chance he was allowed to pull the trigger without meeting with Shanahan & Hunter first. There's also zero chance Shanahan & Hunter would have approved the deal if they didn't agree with it. If Dubas really lost their confidence, he would have been relieved of trade duty after the meeting & Hunter would have taken over trade talks from there. It had to be a team decision, even if he did the leg work. No NHL GM is gonna find out their assistant GM finalized a bad blockbuster trade after the fact.

So if Dubas didn't fluke into Tavares his adds would have been two very overrated players vs their contracts. How is that progressive thinking like many in this thread are claiming?

Shanny will always have final say on moves. The point is Dubas job was to work the trade talks for Kessel. Shanny had hand picked him to be the future GM. In a short period he went from running point on the biggest trade the team was going to make in that era to having zero say on acquisitions for the big club. That seems like a failure to me. Lou came in and fixed things and helped set the franchise up for the next decade . Dubas now gets to benefit from that.

 

[luvdahattymatty]

I think this is overly harsh on young Dubie. The better way to describe from my understanding from Shanny is Lou was brought in to teach both Dubie how to be GM and Shanny how to be a better president.

 

[stewpac]

Gardiner walks for sure. Why would we subtract a top 4 defenseman during the season? If anything we'll be adding one. We can't resign him and I'm ok with him hitting ufa. Just like jvr last year, it's part of being a contender. Time to get use to this type of thing.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Gardiner walks for sure. Why would we subtract a top 4 defenseman during the season? If anything we'll be adding one. We can't resign him and I'm ok with him hitting ufa. Just like jvr last year, it's part of being a contender. Time to get use to this type of thing.

You got the right mentality. We can not weaken our chances to win now for picks and prospects.

 

[ULF_55]

So if Dubas didn't fluke into Tavares his adds would have been two very overrated players vs their contracts. How is that progressive thinking like many in this thread are claiming?

Shanny will always have final say on moves. The point is Dubas job was to work the trade talks for Kessel. Shanny had hand picked him to be the future GM. In a short period he went from running point on the biggest trade the team was going to make in that era to having zero say on acquisitions for the big club. That seems like a failure to me. Lou came in and fixed things and helped set the franchise up for the next decade . Dubas now gets to benefit from that.

Hmm.

I really don't see any positive results from Lamoriello on the team.

I feel Marleau is okay, but overpaid, and that overpayment is on Lamoriello.

Leafs have always had a handle on free Euro's, so I give no extra credit for something that the Leafs have always done.

Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Kadri, Rielly, Gardiner, Andersen are the key pieces of the team, and that has nothing to do with Lamoriello.

Tavares signed with the current management team and declined Lamoriello's invitation to stay where he was home and comfortable.

 

[Mess]

Hmm.

Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Kadri, Rielly, Gardiner, Andersen are the key pieces of the team, and that has nothing to do with Lamoriello..

Leafs starting goalie is a Lou Lam transaction in trade as well as his new contract.

The Toronto Maple Leafs acquired Frederik Andersen from the Anaheim Ducks on Monday with the hope they have finally found a No. 1 goalie.

The Maple Leafs traded the 30th pick in the 2016 NHL Draft and a second-round pick in 2017 to Anaheim for Andersen and signed him to a five-year contract. Andersen would have been a restricted free agent July 1.

"He had one more year left and he was a restricted free agent," Maple Leafs general manager Lou Lamoriello said. "One of two things could have transpired; he could go to arbitration or we could have played out his qualifying offer, but when you're at his age (26), in five years, we are very comfortable with the extension.

 

[ULF_55]

Leafs starting goalie is a Lou Lam transaction in trade as well as his new contract.

The Toronto Maple Leafs acquired Frederik Andersen from the Anaheim Ducks on Monday with the hope they have finally found a No. 1 goalie.

The Maple Leafs traded the 30th pick in the 2016 NHL Draft and a second-round pick in 2017 to Anaheim for Andersen and signed him to a five-year contract. Andersen would have been a restricted free agent July 1.

"He had one more year left and he was a restricted free agent," Maple Leafs general manager Lou Lamoriello said. "One of two things could have transpired; he could go to arbitration or we could have played out his qualifying offer, but when you're at his age (26), in five years, we are very comfortable with the extension.

Okay, thanks.

First round pick from the Kessel trade right?

 

[Trapper]

You got the right mentality. We can not weaken our chances to win now for picks and prospects.

You will weaken yourself later.
No team can just lose a top 4 D and not suffer. Especially when the current knock against your team is top 4 D.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

You will weaken yourself later.
No team can just lose a top 4 D and not suffer. Especially when the current knock against your team is top 4 D.

Sure. I agree that we can not afford to lose a top 4 D and that is why I want him to stay until his contract runs out instead of trading him for picks and prospects. And we will then hope some one can step up from within and replace him when he is gone.

 

[Cor]

Calvin De Haan ould have been a terrific addition. He's a quality top 4 d-man. 4.55M is hardly a big cap hit for a top 4 d-man, and the term was only 4 years. Derek Ryan is a quality player in his own right. He drives offense. He's not someone you want in your top 6, but as a bottom 6 center, he is a good quality player.

What makes signing Derek Ryan bad is the contract he got. 3.1x3. We have no clue what the Leafs were offering him. But let's keep in mind he put up nearly 40 points playing third line minutes on a team that is not exactly an offensive dynamo.

I think a lot of what the Leafs are looking at are xGF.

Of players who played 300 minutes at 5v5 or more for Carolina over the past two seasons, Derek Ryan was their third best player in terms of Expected Goals For, behind just Jordan Staal and Teravainen.

Over the past 2 seasons, De Haan has been the top Islander's d-man in that regard as well.

Tyler Ennis was MIN's 5th best forward in that regard last season.

In terms of the NHL players we bring in, that seems to be an indicator. Only player that may go against that is Josh Jooris, who has pretty poor numbers all around, but I'm pretty certain he's our Ben Smith replacement on the Marlies anyway.

 

[Menzinger]

Ryan/Haan would have been fine additions (depending on the Leafs contract) in terms of adding depth.

If JT hadn’t of signed we very likely would have seems Nylander get sheltered usage at centre to try and transition him over - and having an extra guy be able to slide into the middle would have helped in that sheltering process.

Regardless hard to find much of any fault in Dubas’ moves so far though obviously 1 offseason immediately after becoming GM isn’t exactly enough time to judge

 

[indigobuffalo]

Dubas is the “Area 52” of NHL GMs.

You get a few glimpses here and there, sometimes from leaked videos, and otherwise just a heavily vetted sportspeak on catchphrases like “the process” and “market inefficiencies”.

There have been lots of articles that have come out talking about the ways Dubas is finding these inefficiencies.

His hiring of Noelle Needham, bringing in the sports science team, targeting overage players (after development of a mathematical model to project development for overagers)...

There is a good chunk of info out there, if you pay attention and know where to look.

But if you don’t then it becomes a “because aliens” topic.

 

[aingefan]

Ryan/Haan would have been fine additions (depending on the Leafs contract) in terms of adding depth.

If JT hadn’t of signed we very likely would have seems Nylander get sheltered usage at centre to try and transition him over - and having an extra guy be able to slide into the middle would have helped in that sheltering process.

Regardless hard to find much of any fault in Dubas’ moves so far though obviously 1 offseason immediately after becoming GM isn’t exactly enough time to judge

I was - and still am of the mind - that interest in DeHaan was a domino move directly related to Gardiner.
If he signed here, Gardiner would have been flipped for x to go get y.
No way of knowing for sure, but made sense at the time and now.
I expect the trend to be ‘fluidity with moving parts’.

 

[Cor]

I was - and still am of the mind - that interest in DeHaan was a domino move directly related to Gardiner.
If he signed here, Gardiner would have been flipped for x to go get y.
No way of knowing for sure, but made sense at the time and now.
I expect the trend to be ‘fluidity with moving parts’.

Kyle Dubas is a big supporter of Jake Gardiner. We are more likely to extend him than trade him. Gardiner is very much one of these “don’t know what you got until it’s gone” players. Incredibly undervalued around here

It very well could have been a domino move to sign CDH, but you’re more looking at Ron Hainsey or Nikita Zaitsev as the ones to move. I know Mirtle at some point during the summer said that he heard the Leafs were listening to offers on both of those guys.

Considering CDH has a history of playing the right side, we may have seen him as Rielly’s partner, with Gardiner with whoever stayed between Hainsey and Zaitsev and then Dermott with Holl, Oz, or Carrick.

But this is all speculation.

 

[Mess]

Okay, thanks.

First round pick from the Kessel trade right?

Yup and without a starting goalie the Leafs would be deciding between Sparks, Pickard and McBackup right about now.

Even though Andersen does have some 5 or more plus games, he also saves the Leafs bacon on many occasions nightly, without him we might the NYI of last year and last in GA so Lou Lam will have a lasting impact of the Leafs is nothing more than dealing high picks (1st & 2nd) for Andersen.

Dubas as a much better starting point as a result.

Kyle biggest test will come in the form of getting Matthews, Marner and Nylander resigned and at what price and term. If these players buy into the Shanaplan of "We before Me" philosophy things will be OK, but if they get paid > market Leafs will be dealing with some serious cap issues going forward.

 

[aingefan]

Kyle Dubas is a big supporter of Jake Gardiner. We are more likely to extend him than trade him. Gardiner is very much one of these “don’t know what you got until it’s gone” players. Incredibly undervalued around here

It very well could have been a domino move to sign CDH, but you’re more looking at Ron Hainsey or Nikita Zaitsev as the ones to move. I know Mirtle at some point during the summer said that he heard the Leafs were listening to offers on both of those guys.

Considering CDH has a history of playing the right side, we may have seen him as Rielly’s partner, with Gardiner with whoever stayed between Hainsey and Zaitsev and then Dermott with Holl, Oz, or Carrick.

But this is all speculation.

I believe your right about Dubas’ Pov on Gardiner, but, the shape of the contract in the salary structure points to Gardiner being a tough fit moving forward.
CDH on the right side made sense too, good point
I’m not in the under appreciate Gardiner crowd.
I just saw:
DeHaan at ~4 for mid-term + Gards assets v. Gardiner at ~6-7 for longer term with no additional assets
As Dubasian math.
I do like a lot of the D men on their own, I just don’t see a lot of great fit between them.
I think all of Reilly/Gards/Zaits and Dermott could benefit from a Hainsey kinda compliment, but there’s just one of him and he’s likely the first to go.

 

[hotpaws]

Yup and without a starting goalie the Leafs would be deciding between Sparks, Pickard and McBackup right about now.

Even though Andersen does have some 5 or more plus games, he also saves the Leafs bacon on many occasions nightly, without him we might the NYI of last year and last in GA so Lou Lam will have a lasting impact of the Leafs is nothing more than dealing high picks (1st & 2nd) for Andersen.

Dubas as a much better starting point as a result.

Kyle biggest test will come in the form of getting Matthews, Marner and Nylander resigned and at what price and term. If these players buy into the Shanaplan of "We before Me" philosophy things will be OK, but if they get paid > market Leafs will be dealing with some serious cap issues going forward.

don't understand what this "we before me" philosophy has to do with getting paid fair market value

while it would be great if they took discounts voluntarily instead of us using our leverage and there lack of leverage to try to force them into sub market deals which could lead to hard feelings and poor morale in my opinion having a "we instead of me"philosophy has to do with buying into the on ice game plan and there role in it

 

[Mess]

don't understand what this "we before me" philosophy has to do with getting paid fair market value

while it would be great if they took discounts voluntarily instead of us using our leverage and there lack of leverage to try to force them into sub market deals which could lead to hard feelings and poor morale in my opinion having a "we instead of me"philosophy has to do with buying into the on ice game plan and there role in it

Not according to Dubas .. His "We before Me" recent interview was about buying into keeping the Leafs stronger on the ice by taking less cap individually and leaving more cap space for the depth players to make the "team" more Cup competitive..

If everyone wants top $$ for themselves (ie Me portion) then the overall team will suffer due to cap space limitations to fill out the rest of the roster.

 

[hotpaws]

Not according to Dubas .. His "We before Me" recent interview was about buying into keeping the Leafs stronger on the ice by taking less cap individually and leaving more cap space for the depth players to make the "team" more Cup competitive..

If everyone wants top $$ for themselves (ie Me portion) then the overall team will suffer due to cap space limitations to fill out the rest of the roster.

if that's KD's definition of "we before me" then he should have practiced what he preached and either signed JT for a sub market contract -8.5m-9m per- or walked away from negotiations

Willie signing for what his comparables got is not "top market" $$$ , it's just fair value and even if he and the others say took a small discount of say 500k it's not like 1.5m total would make much of a difference .