Expansion to 36, which city is number 36?

[hammer42]

The FirstOntario Center has just started it's $300 million dollar renovation yesterday to bring it up to NHL. standards & will reopen in November 2025 .

Let me tell you something the people that are funding this renovation are not dropping this kind money on this arena for just concerts & minor league hockey they are doing it for an NHL. team .

 

[FoxYou727]

next 2 will be

Houston
Atlanta

the 36th is tough

I see
San Diego
Kansas City
Cincinnati
Ohama
Hartford
Portland
Quebec City

 

[hammer42]

Atlanta is not getting a 3rd chance it is just to risky it would most likely just fail again after 10 years .

The next 4 expansion cities
Houston
Hamilton
Kansas City
Cincinnati

The NHL. won't put a 4th team in California even if they are going to build a new arena in San Diego which most likely be for NBA team not a hockey team .

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Atlanta is not getting a 3rd chance it is just to risky it would most likely just fail again after 10 years .

You're ignoring why the first two Atlanta franchises relocated.

 

[tucker3434]

You're ignoring why the first two Atlanta franchises relocated.

That dude posts the same bait in every thread. He’s not interested in a discussion, just trolling Atlanta.

 

[hammer42]

Yes I do the Flames left because nobody cared about hockey that is why they left for Calgary & then you got the Thrashers they left because of combination of things like not drawing fans , bad ownership & poor product on the ice but still a 3rd chance really I just don't see the NHL. jumping into another high risk market while they got markets like Houston , Hamilton , Kansas City & Cincinnati which are big low risk markets & you are wondering why left Quebec City off my list simple to small of a market & I don't think the NHL. wants another small market team & if any of you think Hamilton is a small market you are wrong the Hamilton area has about around 800.000 people not to mention Hamilton is a part of GTHA . which as around 6 million people .

 

[Takuto Maruki]

if any of you think Hamilton is a small market you are wrong the Hamilton area has about around 800.000 people not to mention Hamilton is a part of GTHA . which as around 6 million people .

...that isn't going to get a team unless the telco portions of MLSE implode, necessitating Bell and Rogers to take sides.

Come on, you seriously don't think this, do you?

 

[takimaki]

Texas is really underserved by the NHL, with just one team for over 30 million people. Its also the country's fastest growing state. The league is leaving money on the table the longer they don't get something going in Houston.

And put an AHL team back in San Antonio.

 

[Jets4Life]

The FirstOntario Center has just started it's $300 million dollar renovation yesterday to bring it up to NHL. standards & will reopen in November 2025 .

Let me tell you something the people that are funding this renovation are not dropping this kind money on this arena for just concerts & minor league hockey they are doing it for an NHL. team .

I sure hope Hamilton get an NHL team one day. They city would support it. The big question would be would the NHL want Hamilton. Toronto and Buffalo would want territorial concessions, I would imagine. Quebec City plunked down close to $400 million for the Videotron Centre, and at the time it was being funded, things looked good, with the Canadian dollar almost at par with the US dollar. However, economics changed and now the forecast for more Canadian teams looks pretty bleak.

 

[Jets4Life]

Yes I do the Flames left because nobody cared about hockey that is why they left for Calgary & then you got the Thrashers they left because of combination of things like not drawing fans , bad ownership & poor product on the ice but still a 3rd chance really I just don't see the NHL

The two Atlanta teams left both times due to bad ownership. The Thrashers started off with solid ownership. Unfortunately, the disastrous AOL-Time Warner deal came about, and the thrashers were unloaded to the ASG. I have never had any doubts that Atlanta could be very successful with the right ownership group

. jumping into another high risk market while they got markets like Houston , Hamilton , Kansas City & Cincinnati which are big low risk markets & you are wondering why left Quebec City off my list simple to small of a market & I don't think the NHL.

Quebec is technically as big of a market as Hamilton. Cincinnati is not on any list for a future NHL team.

 

[Jets4Life]

Atlanta is not getting a 3rd chance it is just to risky it would most likely just fail again after 10 years .

Want to place a wager on that?

The next 4 expansion cities
Houston
Hamilton
Kansas City
Cincinnati

Houston is the only city on that list, that I can see being granted a franchise in the near future. Phoenix will probably get a second chance once they have the ownership, and arena. Not certain about the final team. Austin would be a great location, considering it's the fastest growing large city in North America, and is untapped in pro sports.

It's possible there will be a 8th Canadian team. I would put my money on Quebec City.

The NHL. won't put a 4th team in California even if they are going to build a new arena in San Diego which most likely be for NBA team not a hockey team .

The NHL will put a team in San Diego, if a billionaire steps up, builds a new arena in San Diego, and plunks down $800 million.

 

[Golden_Jet]

...that isn't going to get a team unless the telco portions of MLSE implode, necessitating Bell and Rogers to take sides.

Come on, you seriously don't think this, do you?

Hard to say what happens with Bell/Rogers ownership when Tanenbaum sells his remaining 20% next year, by his 80th birthday.
They could both buy the 20%, one of them could, one could buy out the other, and make a Hamilton/Toronto 2.0.
Different ways this could go, also with TV deal up in 2 years.

 

[timekeep]

I think one of the reasons the NHL went to Columbus vs. Cleveland or Cincinnati is the fact that even with the Buckeyes in town, there was no pro sports competition. No doubt college sports is massive in Columbus and Austin.

Not saying Houston would be a bad market, or that there wouldn't one day be three teams in Texas, but timing is everything and maybe Texas market No. 2 isn't the obvious choice.

Then factor in that live music scene draw bringing tourists in. You get some of the similar benefits that Vegas and Nashville enjoy with a vibrant entertainment scene helping draw people to the area and make travelling there more appealing.

Frankly I'd be a bit concerned with the local Houston economy in the long-term. The Oil and Gas industry is a huge part of their economy what happens if that industry shrinks considerably over the next few decades? If say Austin has a more diverse economy, maybe long-term that is the safer play.

I don't have any numbers but I'd be curious to see the retiree vs. working age demographics of each city. It's the working age folks who generally have more disposable income to spend on pro sports. Then factor in kids interest in pro sports teams can drive ticket sales, merch sales. Not a lot of retirees taking their adult children to pro sporting events or buying pro team merchandise.

Who knows, we've seen markets with huge populations fail, and some smaller markets succeed. And either way, the on-ice product has to be quality. No question one of the many reasons Atlanta and Phoenix failed was absolute lack of on-ice success. Two of the most inept franchises on-ice the past 25 years.

San Antonio would be a great fit for the NHL as well, surprised we haven't seen much interest from them. Lots of snowbirds too.

 

[timekeep]

Texas is really underserved by the NHL, with just one team for over 30 million people. Its also the country's fastest growing state. The league is leaving money on the table the longer they don't get something going in Houston.

And put an AHL team back in San Antonio.

Or an NHL team

 

[Felonious Python]

Expansion is interesting, as there's plenty of markets for the NHL to go past 40 teams. The right owner and arena pushes one city to the front of the line.

Houston, Atlanta, and Phoenix are the next three (if things align).

San Diego, Portland, KC, Charlotte, San Francisco, Cincinnati, and Austin would be in the next group.

I don't think that the NHL would go to Milwaukee, Hamilton, or Baltimore. It makes more sense to just be Chicago 2 or Toronto 2, than to pay extra anyway, and be in a smaller market.

 

[Felonious Python]

Or an NHL team

Austin has more favorable economics than San Antonio (from what I've seen).

It'd also give Austin a major league indoor fall/winter sport that doesn't directly compete with the Spurs.


California has the same sized population as Canada (and a higher GDP), if the NHL wants growth markets, California could take another team or two (and their AHL teams).

 

[timekeep]

Austin has more favorable economics than San Antonio (from what I've seen).

It'd also give Austin a major league indoor fall/winter sport that doesn't directly compete with the Spurs.


California has the same sized population as Canada (and a higher GDP), if the NHL wants growth markets, California could take another team or two (and their AHL teams).

Disagree with California expansion, they don't support too many of their teams, other than the Dodgers and NBA. Ducks and Sharks are Third and Fourth lowest for attendance to Arizona and Winnipeg with smaller barns.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Austin has more favorable economics than San Antonio (from what I've seen).

It'd also give Austin a major league indoor fall/winter sport that doesn't directly compete with the Spurs.


California has the same sized population as Canada (and a higher GDP), if the NHL wants growth markets, California could take another team or two (and their AHL teams).

Not seeing it for California, at all.

 

[Felonious Python]

Disagree with California expansion, they don't support too many of their teams, other than the Dodgers and NBA. Ducks and Sharks are Third and Fourth lowest for attendance to Arizona and Winnipeg with smaller barns.

It depends on what the priority is. If they want growth in the US, then California is good. If they want sure money, then they put another team in Toronto.

California has the raw population, and enough money, to be able to grow.

League people talk about TV markets as a shorthand for viability, and Fresno is bigger than Buffalo. Sacramento is larger than St. Louis or Portland. I'm only really talking about San Diego and San Francisco (yes, another Bay Area team).

 

[Golden_Jet]

It depends on what the priority is. If they want growth in the US, then California is good. If they want sure money, then they put another team in Toronto.

California has the raw population, and enough money, to be able to grow.

League people talk about TV markets as a shorthand for viability, and Fresno is bigger than Buffalo. Sacramento is larger than St. Louis or Portland. I'm only really talking about San Diego and San Francisco (yes, another Bay Area team).

If talking about TV markets, then it’s Toronto hands down.
Canadas TV numbers are better than US numbers, with a much smaller population.

 

[takimaki]

Austin has more favorable economics than San Antonio (from what I've seen).

It'd also give Austin a major league indoor fall/winter sport that doesn't directly compete with the Spurs.

Austin has an income per capita almost double that of SA, which is why I originally said put an AHL team there.

Austin can definitely support a team, and at the same time that Houston has one, but I don’t see the league having the balls needed to do both at or around the same time frame. It would work though.

 

[voyageur]

The FirstOntario Center has just started it's $300 million dollar renovation yesterday to bring it up to NHL. standards & will reopen in November 2025 .

Let me tell you something the people that are funding this renovation are not dropping this kind money on this arena for just concerts & minor league hockey they are doing it for an NHL. team .

I think that team is Ottawa...If I am not mistaken Andlauer is a Hamilton guy. Good luck getting a new arena built in Ottawa, Hamilton is at least an anti-Leafs market with a greater regional broadcasting capacity than Ottawa.

As for the thread, I'd bring in Atlanta and that's it. 33. The league is getting diluted. Please don't go to 36.

 

[Felonious Python]

Austin has an income per capita almost double that of SA, which is why I originally said put an AHL team there.

Austin can definitely support a team, and at the same time that Houston has one, but I don’t see the league having the balls needed to do both at or around the same time frame. It would work though.

Houston would definitely be the higher priority to get a team, but Austin is kind of ripe for the picking, since the NBA probably wouldn't add another team so close to San Antonio.

Tampa Bay and Florida joined in 92 and 93, respectively, so it wouldn't be unthinkable that there's a relatively quick timeline (not Florida fast, though).

 

[timekeep]

It depends on what the priority is. If they want growth in the US, then California is good. If they want sure money, then they put another team in Toronto.

California has the raw population, and enough money, to be able to grow.

League people talk about TV markets as a shorthand for viability, and Fresno is bigger than Buffalo. Sacramento is larger than St. Louis or Portland. I'm only really talking about San Diego and San Francisco (yes, another Bay Area team).

I'd be surprised if they expand in California, maybe a relocation.

 

[timekeep]

Austin has an income per capita almost double that of SA, which is why I originally said put an AHL team there.

Austin can definitely support a team, and at the same time that Houston has one, but I don’t see the league having the balls needed to do both at or around the same time frame. It would work though.

That is interesting, wonder if it has do with a bunch of snowbirds in SA? NHL needs corporate dollars locally, not sure if the Austin crowd would spend their entertainment dollars on Hockey season tickets. More of an Arts and Culture crowd from my experience.